[LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

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Teleth
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[LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by Teleth » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 12:27

I want to minimize reloading and general tedium/frustration. X3 is really overloaded with this sort of design and suffers greatly for it.
Any scripts/mods to deal with issues would be appreciated.
For reference, I am using XRM+AP, though I will mention if a script does not work in TC or without XRM.

List of scripts to reduce X3's frustration/repetition levels
===============================
The list only includes modifications that make the game less frustrating.

COLOR LEGEND
------------------
X3 Albion only
X3TC/X3AP Compatible
Not tested yet
Looking for suggestions
Broken?

GENERAL (recommend installing all of them)
----------
Bounce: Prevents friendly AI crashing all the time.
Cheat Collection package: Various uses. Unlimited insurance being the first. I recommend revealing all connected sectors to aid in finding things in the early game. Unless you really enjoy this sort of exploration of course.
FDNL: Removes much in-sector freighting between your stations.
Marine repairs: Ship hull regeneration using on-board marines.
No gate reputation loss: The 'Hero of Sol' is no longer mistaken for another common pirate when fighting near gates.
Numeric ranks: No more guessing notoriety requirements.
Safe undocking: Reduced chance of exploding at undock.
MARS: Drones can drag freight and ships to the player, I also set them to allow drones to repair your hull.
Turbo boost: Included in the BONUS pack, cuts down on in-sector travel time, don't go without it. I recommend configuring it to use laser energy to 40%, then shields to 50%, then energy cells.
Jump Beacons: Jump directly to beacons in sector, works with EST/CAG trader. Included in XRM.

FLEET
---------
Automated Carrier Software: Allows carriers to create fully equipped and managed m3/4/5s out of resources. Did not seem particularly compatible but did a pretty good job, if you want to give this a try, it should be without Anarkis Defense System.
Anarkis Defense System: Great for carriers and managing defensive fighter wings. Also provides on-board marine training.
Logain's E-Cell generator: Saves you from having to deal with constant energy cell headaches with your fleet. My Rebalanced versions Plentiful or Balanced, just require supply command software installed to work, and is also compatible with TS/TP/TM ships. Much smaller e-cell generation with the exception of carriers which output 40/cycle.
Repair costs: Repair costs are too excessive. I spend most of my time fighting outside of hull damage, while AI trader profits go negative frequently. It would be nice if I could actually afford to repair an M5. I started my game with the M6 Sirokos and I still can't afford to run a single fighter-craft with 5 factories and 3 traders. I guess everyone in XRM just abuses SETA. I've had a quick look at repair ship mods but unfortunately they seemed incompatible or too heavily depreciated; I'd love one that used ore to repair to ships with support vessels.

FACTIONS
-----------
Friendly fire: Friendly fire is still a huge issue. Something capable of restoring relations automatically, particularly in war-zones would be good.

MARINES
----------
Improved boarding: Marines can actually make it to the target ship.. sadly does nothing to reduce the reload frequency of boarding mechanics.
On-board marine training: Anarkis Defense Systems can actually cover this.
Boarding overhaul: Boarding is very expensive, very chance-based, and promotes re-loading constantly. It is abysmal. Anything that negates the time investment in setting up marines would be great.
If possible, I'd like to make marines regenerate: When a marine dies, he/she is replaced with a weaker version. Losing a marine would no longer be the end of the world. Ultimately I'd love to just strip marine-training out and have either marines gain experience as you use them, or have fixed abilities based on their cost.
Convert passengers to marines: Could possibly be an alternative to having to return to an outpost to gather marines. Unfortunately has a few requirements like gathering space fuel and firearms.

TRADING
----------
Economy and Supply Trader: EST seems to be the only trader making an effort to stay alive. I still have to babysit them from time to time.
Universal bestbuys: Less time searching around for things.
Escorts or Transport fortification: Between the war and the Pirates Guild, my transport ships are often annihilated before I can mount any response. XRM strips jumpdrives from fighter craft (it should have done the opposite- built jumpdrives into fighter craft and made jumpdrives expensive for larger vessels!), trading is quite a nightmare to babysit. I could do without the reloads.

WARES
------------
Upgrade kits (JDK): Makes managing lost equipment less of a hassle. X3TC/X3AP compatible version2

MISSIONS
------------
Mission time/reward tweaks: Not tested. Strict mission timers aren't much fun personally. X3 is also loaded with terribly low profit missions. I would probably multiply most missions by 2x-3x reward, while re-adjusting assassination missions to normal figures as these are regularly very rewarding to begin with. Could use something that makes 'easier' missions more difficult/entertaining.

Unrelated things I'm also looking for
======================
Exploration content: Procedurally generated things interest me, one thing I enjoyed in EVE was scanning down wormholes, pirate outposts and clearing them out. It would be great if there were randomly generated collectables, mini-outposts to defeat, special salvage loot/wrecks, nvidium asteroids etc

So far I've found Random Sectors Management 1.5 but it sounds incompatible with AP.
Shiploot v1.4 seems interesting enough, unfortunately it relies on a unique mechanic system which is a whole lot of trouble in XRM/AP; not to mention more micromanagement the game doesn't need. Anything else like this dealing with wrecks?

I think there was also a mod that introduced random claimable ships you had to hunt for but I couldn't find it. It is probably not compatible and heavily depreciated anyway.

I haven't seen anything else to improve exploration content. X3 is honestly pretty barren in this area.

X3AP+XRM is probably the first time I've ever really enjoyed X3 (coming from an ex-EVE player); there are many questionable design decisions in X3 which frustrate me to no end. The above modifications were very helpful in making the game more fun, and a lot less annoying. I'm sure I am missing a few things, so please suggest other scripts/mods that make the game less frustrating/time consuming.

If you have a recommendation, suggestion, or know if a certain mod works in XRM/AP..
Post it! (even if it's not compatible with XRM/AP, I'd be interested.)
Last edited by Teleth on Tue, 10. Apr 12, 07:33, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: [LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by DrBullwinkle » Sat, 7. Apr 12, 19:09

Good list.

Not so easy to respond. I considered posting a similar list, but have been looking for wiki space for it. A wiki would be a better place for this sort of thing.

Nevertheless:
Teleth wrote:Repair costs: Repair costs are too excessive.
You already listed Marine Repairs. Is that not a sufficient solution?

You can always tweak the Repair Laser bullet with X3 Editor 2. Increase the "damage" of the repair bullet.
Friendly fire: Something capable of restoring relations automatically
It is hard for a script to know what values you want to be restored. The Cheat Package has the tools to do it quickly.
On-board marine training
I tried several of these, but none work as well as the vanilla training system, IMHO. By the time you are ready for boarding operations, you should be able to afford to keep a TP docked at a Military Base.

You can also hire highly trained marines at the Quantico Special Marine Base.
Boarding overhaul
Overhauled in AP.

If you are reloading, then you are probably doing it wrong anyway, even in TC. See Marine Tips for some suggestions.

As you say, Convert passengers to marines is a way to semi-cheat on training. Adjust the script as you like. I give my indentured marines a little training with the script, because I use it only to replace marines that I feel had "wrongful deaths" due to the game engine.
Escorts or Transport fortification: my transport ships are often annihilated before I can mount any response.
Some of that is due to the way that OOS combat works, even with AP's OOS Rebalance. Some things that help:
  • - Jumpdrives are the only good defense for traders.
    - Fast transports are less likely to be attacked. Specifically, transports that are faster than a Xenon Q are good.
    - Trader must have enough shields to survive until it is able to jump.
    - Corvettes and TMs make fine ESTs. :)
    - Do not forget to blacklist dangerous sectors, save the data, and load the data onto new ESTs.
    - If you do not have enough cheap, jumpdrive-equipped, TSs then consider capping Duke's transports. Or Phanon Corporation TSs.
Speaking of Phanon Corporation, you might want to add that to your list. Some guy named "Teleth" posted a version of Phanon Corporation tweaked for XRM. ;)
Equipment insurance: Every time I dip into hull I dread having to replace things
That is an intentional part of the game. Solution: Fight better. Don't allow your shields to collapse. :P

You already list the way to recover from the problem after it occurs: Upgrade kits (JDK)

(Why link the dead post from Sesk? I don't see how Upgrade Kits could be much simpler than it already is.)
Strict mission timers aren't much fun personally. X3 is also loaded with terribly low profit missions.
Both of those improve with experience and your rank. The mission timers are easy with the proper equipment: Fast TP, Kestrel, Jumpdrive-equipped TM. Get your notoriety up with one race for more profitable missions.

If you hate timed missions enough to want to cheat on them, then Warp to Target - Hotkey is like a long-distance docking computer.

Another excellent time cheat is Gateless Jumpdrive Hotkey, which allows you to use your jumpdrive in Terran space.
a mod that introduced random claimable ships you had to hunt for
Are you thinking of Abandoned Ship Spawner?
I haven't seen anything else to improve exploration content. X3 is honestly pretty barren in this area.
Interesting Point of View (POV). To me, X3 seems incredibly vast. It took me weeks to work my way to Legend's Home (Terran Defender start).

TC has more things to find and do than AP, even though the universe is mostly similar.

Each game is different, I suppose.

Teleth
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Re: [LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by Teleth » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 06:21

DrBullwinkle wrote:Good list.

Not so easy to respond. I considered posting a similar list, but have been looking for wiki space for it. A wiki would be a better place for this sort of thing.
You're right, this thread will be buried very quickly. I mostly just wanted input I guess, of which you have kindly provided.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Teleth wrote:Repair costs: Repair costs are too excessive.
You already listed Marine Repairs. Is that not a sufficient solution?
When I mentioned repair costs, I was meaning repair costs for other ships, rather than my own.. damaging a third of my M6 sets me back 10 million or more; I've just used the repair laser to deal with it so far.. not really a fun solution. Marine repairs does work great for my own ship.

I would love to run escorts for my transports but repairs are just too crazy for that to be feasible until I can afford M6+ escorts.
I'm thinking maybe there is a hull to cost modifier somewhere I can tweak to soften this.

I am tempted to change the power of the repair laser really, but I still don't want to deal with repairs myself each and every time a ship gets damaged.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Friendly fire: Something capable of restoring relations automatically
It is hard for a script to know what values you want to be restored. The Cheat Package has the tools to do it quickly.
Still no real solution for this, even after years of complaints I guess..
I may attempt to create one myself. Basically I would have the script track changes to reputation, if you had positive relations with a race, it would reset your rep until it was sure you were hostile. Sounds simple in practice, but I don't know what the issues surrounding this that have stopped people doing this in the past..
DrBullwinkle wrote: I tried several of these, but none work as well as the vanilla training system, IMHO. By the time you are ready for boarding operations, you should be able to afford to keep a TP docked at a Military Base.
This is true enough, maybe I am just greedy for new ships haha.
Will be sure to read the tips you mentioned.
DrBullwinkle wrote: As you say, Convert passengers to marines is a way to semi-cheat on training. Adjust the script as you like. I give my indentured marines a little training with the script, because I use it only to replace marines that I feel had "wrongful deaths" due to the game engine.
I don't come across astronauts very often, but I think I'll give modifying this a shot.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Escorts or Transport fortification: my transport ships are often annihilated before I can mount any response.
Some of that is due to the way that OOS combat works, even with AP's OOS Rebalance.
Actually with the AP rebalance I think it's working reasonably well.. usually the transport survives with minimal damage; until I jump in to help.. the pirates unfortunately have no survival instincts and continue to wail on the transport which is usually very close to destruction by the time I enter range. Even with Hull-MID installed they tear through the ships.

I hadn't considered capping transports or using corvettes.. when I can afford another M6 I might consider doing that.
All of my ESTs are jump capable, it's just I have a few haulers picking up things from the next system.. I honestly think transport ships could use 5x hull, they are paper-thin against pirate attacks.
DrBullwinkle wrote: Speaking of Phanon Corporation, you might want to add that to your list. Some guy named "Teleth" posted a version of Phanon Corporation tweaked for XRM. ;)
I was trying to keep the post aimed at making the game less frustrating and not pimp my own modifications :)
XRM's AP war, Phanon corp, Pirates Guild 3, Yaki Armada.. I wouldn't be playing without these as X3 is otherwise a sterile environment.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Equipment insurance: Every time I dip into hull I dread having to replace things
That is an intentional part of the game. Solution: Fight better. Don't allow your shields to collapse. :P
Repair costs/time are penalty enough without having to spend an hour scouring for lost software in my opinion. I would just prefer to actually entertain the notion of risk rather than jousting. As it stands entering hull integrity is just an annoying experience and little else.
DrBullwinkle wrote: You already list the way to recover from the problem after it occurs: Upgrade kits (JDK)

(Why link the dead post from Sesk? I don't see how Upgrade Kits could be much simpler than it already is.)
I haven't tested Upgrade Kits yet.. I was just interested in the simplest solution to the problem, or opinions on the matter.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Strict mission timers aren't much fun personally. X3 is also loaded with terribly low profit missions.
Both of those improve with experience and your rank. The mission timers are easy with the proper equipment: Fast TP, Kestrel, Jumpdrive-equipped TM. Get your notoriety up with one race for more profitable missions.
I'm at maximum notoriety with Argon, and most mission offers are pretty pathetic for their time-investment. The only exception to the rule are the assassination missions, which are the opposite; they offer 3-5 million for an easy 2 minute job tops. Jump in, unload missiles, jump out.

Trade rank 16 Financier: Never seen anything worth the time/hassle, except strangely priced ships. I don't have a TL yet but when I do I'm sure station missions will be good money.
Combat rank 20 Warrior: Kill missions probably too rewarding, escorts are 'okay'. The rewards for these really should be switched as escort is actually sometimes difficult, not to mention lengthy.. the other kill missions are generally not worth the time.

I've always hated the random missions in X3, they are not well constructed at all. Most have arbitrary time-limits and hostiles that are simply generated in the sector for the mission, why the big sandbox if you're not going to use it, Egosoft. I love procedurally generated content but this just a minimum effort job to me.
Does anyone know if the random missions are MD-editable? (I dread the MD and XML but I guess it couldn't hurt to take a bash.)
DrBullwinkle wrote: Are you thinking of Abandoned Ship Spawner?
Pretty close to it, but no. I may consider adding this one to my game, but honestly I'm not sure about balance. I think the mod was for x3 reunion, it added treasure map type hunts, and you weren't guaranteed a ship, there was always possibility for ambush etc.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
I haven't seen anything else to improve exploration content. X3 is honestly pretty barren in this area.
Interesting Point of View (POV). To me, X3 seems incredibly vast. It took me weeks to work my way to Legend's Home (Terran Defender start).

TC has more things to find and do than AP, even though the universe is mostly similar.
My main draw to AP was the light carriers and on-going war situation. Once I heard the AP war was.. staged, I took interest in the XRM overhaul. Unfortunately XRM has the side effect of stripping out all of the plots which is a bit disappointing, but ultimately I am more interested in the sandbox nature of X3.

Personally for me, X3 sectors aren't even remotely interesting to explore for a number of reasons:
The majority of facilities are simply placed by GOD so economic discoveries are of limited interest.
There is never anything unique in a sector. No actual conflicts, no mining operations, few opportunities, very little to salvage, few sectors are notable in any meaningful way.
It's not helped by the fact that the majority of X3's ships are just generic fodder and have little purpose. X3AP RRF and XRM's war help here a great deal; it's nice to see ships with an active purpose.

X3's engine has the capabilities for more exciting sectors, but it seems to have not had a great deal of attention in this area. I'm currently editing Random Sector Management to work with XRM and so far I've been reasonably successful. Maybe I can apply some distinct features to existing sectors while I'm there, even if its just minor things like mining ops to disturb and cargo cache outposts for the player to claim.

The perfect X3 is much closer than what it was a few years ago, it is really fun for me now.. I can only hope people continue to improve on it even with the release of X3 Rebirth.

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Re: [LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by DrBullwinkle » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 07:28

Teleth wrote:I was meaning repair costs for other ships, rather than my own.
Marine Repairs works on: Your ship, any ship that can dock on your ship, any ship that can hold marines, any ship that can dock at any other ship holding marines, and (IIRC) any ship docked at a base that has other ships holding marines. In other words, it works on most ships. :)
I would love to run escorts for my transports
Escorts don't help much, unless they are destroyers or carriers.

My suggestion was that M6's make excellent transports. Do not get caught up in all of the talk on the forum about how you need a super freighter for your UTs/ESTs... big profitsssss can be made on small items.
I may attempt to create [a race relationship auto-fixer] myself.
If you can do it, then I am sure that it would be popular. I ran the same idea (save and restore relations) past one of the more experienced developers, and he seemed to think that the problem was too complex to attempt. Give it a try and let us know your experience.
I don't come across astronauts very often
How can you avoid them? Don't you shoot at other ships? :?

Also, if you are not buying and selling used ships, then you are giving up a lot of quick profitssss. You can either use a chart to estimate the value of the ship, or you can use a trick:
Spoiler
Show
Used ships with hull less than 75% are good deals.
I think I'll give modifying Convert Passengers to Marines a shot.
I don't think you will have any trouble with it. I could post my hack but it is just that... a hack. It certainly would not suit everyone.

(However, now that I think about it, I might be able to make it more general-purpose. Hmmm....)
I hadn't considered capping transports or using corvettes..
What do you do? Spend all your time adding scripts, so that there is no time left to play the game? ;)
when I can afford another M6
You don't need to *buy* a corvette, silly!

You can:
  • Use 9 lightly-trained marines and a TP to board one.
    Do a Return Ship mission and, um, "forget" to return the ship.
    Buy one used.
    Cap a few Duke's/Phanon TS's and sell them for enough credits to buy the M6.
I honestly think transport ships could use 5x hull, they are paper-thin against pirate attacks.
Oh. Like a corvette, perhaps? :)
Repair costs/time are penalty enough without having to spend an hour scouring for lost software
Yep. Especially after you have manually equipped several dozen ships, so that the novelty/challenge has worn off. Upgrade Kits solves this perfectly. It *is* the simplest solution to the problem, IMHO.

Player Workshops does a similar job, but you have to dock at your Equipment Dock to use it. Upgrade Kits are portable, so you can use it in the field.
Does anyone know if the random missions are MD-editable?
They are.

For the missions themselves, look at director\3.01 Generic Missions.xml

For combat difficulty, look at line 711 (TC) in OBS.xml: Combat Difficulty

I also use Ulfius's Hard Mode or Xtreme Mode Jobs Mod as one way to improve combat challenge. Scroll down the page in the link -- they are listed as "options" for CMOD, but they work fine standalone. Oh, but the Jobs file is already edited in XRM, so you don't need these mods. But you can still edit Jobs yourself with X3 Editor 2.

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Re: [LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by Teleth » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 08:14

DrBullwinkle wrote:
Teleth wrote:I was meaning repair costs for other ships, rather than my own.
Marine Repairs works on: Your ship, any ship that can dock on your ship, any ship that can hold marines, any ship that can dock at any other ship holding marines, and (IIRC) any ship docked at a base that has other ships holding marines. In other words, it works on most ships. :)
This is a godsend, I had not had the opportunity to put marines on my transports yet. It would still be nice if repair costs were reasonable, but I will survive with marines fixing larger ships.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
I may attempt to create [a race relationship auto-fixer] myself.
If you can do it, then I am sure that it would be popular. I ran the same idea (save and restore relations) past one of the more experienced developers, and he seemed to think that the problem was too complex to attempt. Give it a try and let us know your experience.
Could be awhile before I can find time to try, between all my other X3 projects and not playing the game, but I'd like to try at least.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
I don't come across astronauts very often
How can you avoid them? Don't you shoot at other ships? :?
I don't have the NPC bailing mod installed because of its poor compatibility with Phanon (I didn't quite understand fixing it). So NPCs bailing is a rather rare thing for me. I shoot a lot of them!
DrBullwinkle wrote: Also, if you are not buying and selling used ships, then you are giving up a lot of quick profitssss.
I did mention it was the single trade mission I undertook ;) Thanks for the tip. -reloads!
DrBullwinkle wrote:
I think I'll give modifying Convert Passengers to Marines a shot.
I don't think you will have any trouble with it. I could post my hack but it is just that... a hack. It certainly would not suit everyone.

(However, now that I think about it, I might be able to make it more general-purpose. Hmmm....)
Feel free to post it, if you detail the main changes you've made. Even more so if you work on it.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
I hadn't considered capping transports or using corvettes..
What do you do? Spend all your time adding scripts, so that there is no time left to play the game? ;)
Close to it, I've spent most of my time trying to fix phanon and other issues before I get settled in; unlike Oblivion I'm actually making an attempt at playing the game for longer than an hour though!
DrBullwinkle wrote:
when I can afford another M6
You don't need to *buy* a corvette, silly!
Haha.. unfortunately I lost my whole set of my trained marines when I didn't realize the life support system was stripped off my ship in a mild encounter in a warzone.. this is one of the reasons I dislike the equipment damage so much. I didn't reload from this after I found out because I netted approximately equal value from the ship I had destroyed (time investment and repairs another story).
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Repair costs/time are penalty enough without having to spend an hour scouring for lost software
Yep. Especially after you have manually equipped several dozen ships, so that the novelty/challenge has worn off. Upgrade Kits solves this perfectly. It *is* the simplest solution to the problem, IMHO.
Will definitely be putting this into my game, though if it adds a hotkey I may not be able to. AP has a brilliant new bug of disappearing hotkeys. I've already had to restart my entire game from scratch once.
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Does anyone know if the random missions are MD-editable?
They are.

For the missions themselves, look at director\3.01 Generic Missions.xml

For combat difficulty, look at line 711 (TC) in OBS.xml: Combat Difficulty

I also use Ulfius's Hard Mode or Xtreme Mode Jobs Mod as one way to improve combat challenge. Scroll down the page in the link -- they are listed as "options" for CMOD, but they work fine standalone. Oh, but the Jobs file is already edited in XRM, so you don't need these mods. But you can still edit Jobs yourself with X3 Editor 2.
It seems I will never get to actually resume play in X3 at this rate :wink:
Thanks for the information, I will take a look everything you mentioned when I get a chance. Also thanks for taking the time to respond to my overly long postings!

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Re: [LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by DrBullwinkle » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 08:31

Teleth wrote:I don't have the NPC bailing ...
I shoot a lot of them!
NPC Bailing is for little girls. :) Regular NPCs bail often enough (10-14%). Maybe you are just not shooting them correctly. ;)

Be close (under 1km), shoot in bursts (<2 seconds), pause for >9 seconds, repeat. PBE's are great (although you might need heavier guns in the mix for some ships).

Best way = Take down all shields and hull to <86% in the first two-second burst.
Haha.. unfortunately I lost my whole set of my trained marines when I didn't realize the life support system was stripped off my ship
Ouch. That hurts. Honestly, I don't know why marines don't wear EVA suits during an Op, but they don't.

Upgrade Kits are a normal command - no hotkey required.

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Re: [LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by Teleth » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 08:37

DrBullwinkle wrote:
Teleth wrote:I don't have the NPC bailing ...
I shoot a lot of them!
NPC Bailing is for little girls. :) Regular NPCs bail often enough (10-14%). Maybe you are just not shooting them correctly. ;)

Be close (under 1km), shoot in bursts (<2 seconds), pause for >9 seconds, repeat. PBE's are great (although you might need heavier guns in the mix for some ships).

Best way = Take down all shields and hull to <86% in the first two-second burst.
Thanks for the tips, I will consider torturing ships when I need new marines :twisted:
Do all ships bail or just those smaller than M6?
DrBullwinkle wrote:Upgrade Kits are a normal command - no hotkey required.
Excellent, going to test it now!

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Re: [LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

Post by DrBullwinkle » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 08:46

Teleth wrote:Do all ships bail or just those smaller than M6?
Just smaller than M6. Boarding with Marines for M6 and above.

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Post by Teleth » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 09:35

Looks like upgrade kits don't work with albion.
The command doesn't show up in the command console.

I can however, forcefully run the script; it seems to think I have no upgrade kits. I assume this is the root of its problem.. *attempts to fix*

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Post by DrBullwinkle » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 09:41

Teleth wrote: it seems to think I have no upgrade kits.
You have to buy Upgrade Kits before they will work. Read the "Detailed Description" in the Upgrade Kits first post.

However, you may want to ignore part of the instructions. If you use the Plugin Manager, then there is no need to install EMP. The PM adds EMP automagically.

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Post by Teleth » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 09:54

DrBullwinkle wrote:
Teleth wrote: it seems to think I have no upgrade kits.
You have to buy Upgrade Kits before they will work. Read the "Detailed Description" in the Upgrade Kits first post.

However, you may want to ignore part of the instructions. If you use the Plugin Manager, then there is no need to install EMP. The PM adds EMP automagically.
Yeah I've got a bunch, I can only assume something is interfering. XRM has EMP merged in too.

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Post by DrBullwinkle » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 10:15

Teleth wrote:Yeah I've got a bunch, I can only assume something is interfering.
Oh, yeah. That reminds me. I had to "fix" several scripts that used wares. For some reason, user-created wares seem to be unreliable. Even with EMP and the Plugin Manager. Even when made by the experts.

In the case of Upgrade kits, there are 9 places in plugin.deliver.jd.install that deal with wares, and they were all broken in my game. The first is around line 170:

= $ship->add -1 units of {?}

I had to fix the {?} part in the script editor in order to make it work.

I do not know how to fix it in a way that will work in another player's game. Somebody who understands wares better might be able to explain why this happens (and what the *real* fix should be).

(Most of Logain Abler's scripts had a similar problem in my game, including CSecG, which you mention in your OP).

Teleth
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Post by Teleth » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 10:37

DrBullwinkle wrote:
Teleth wrote:Yeah I've got a bunch, I can only assume something is interfering.
Oh, yeah. That reminds me. I had to "fix" several scripts that used wares. For some reason, user-created wares seem to be unreliable. Even with EMP and the Plugin Manager. Even when made by the experts.

In the case of Upgrade kits, there are 9 places in plugin.deliver.jd.install that deal with wares, and they were all broken in my game. The first is around line 170:

= $ship->add -1 units of {?}

I had to fix the {?} part in the script editor in order to make it work.

I do not know how to fix it in a way that will work in another player's game. Somebody who understands wares better might be able to explain why this happens (and what the *real* fix should be).

(Most of Logain Abler's scripts had a similar problem in my game, including CSecG, which you mention in your OP).
Are you using 1.5 or 1.6 of JDK?

I'm running 1.6, here's what is odd in the script:
$jdk = Upgrade Kits (EMP's ZA_EMP_11293_BLANK_WARE_CUSTOM5_7 I believe)

A bit later on:
= $ship->add -1 units of ZA_EMP_11293_BLANK_WARE_CUSTOM5_7

It is no longer referenced as Upgrade Kits in the script editor.

Exscriptor says:
- Ware with ID '11313' already exists as ZA_EMP_BLANK_WARE_CUSTOM7_7. It will be replaced with: Upgrade Kit from 8822-L044.xml
it's merging with 7_7 instead of 5_7, but JDK's scripts never reference 7_7 AT ALL... this could easily be Exscriptor being confused of course.

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DrBullwinkle
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Post by DrBullwinkle » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 10:47

Teleth wrote:It is no longer referenced as Upgrade Kits in the script editor.
Right, that was the part that I had to fix. After repair, the script editor shows "Upgrade Kit".

Both Exscriptor and the SE interpret what is actually in the .xml. I don't really understand exactly what they do when they do that interpretation.

8822-L044 should be correct.

I am using version 1.6, but it has my comments and changes, so my line numbers are different.

EDIT: I have a vague recollection that EMP changed at some point in its history. Is it possible that Upgrade Kits was written for the old EMP?

In any case, it is encouraging that Exscriptor reports a conflict for the ware. At least it suggests that there is some reason that Upgrade Kits is broken. It's not just voodoo or bad luck. :)

Teleth
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Post by Teleth » Sun, 8. Apr 12, 11:25

The conflict is actually normal for EMP wares I believe, they're designed to be overwritten.

ZA_EMP_11293_BLANK_WARE_CUSTOM5_7 doesn't exist in EMP's wares list, so I think its safe to assume this is from an older EMP. I think I'll post the updated version once I get it running.. script cache is a nightmare.

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