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strude
Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 1113 on topic
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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 Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 05:28 Post subject: |
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| Nanook wrote: |
| As stated at the end of the locked portion, feel free to quote and comment on any current discussions/debates. |
Can't we just copy and paste the entire previous thread, and assume that everyone brought up the same arguments all over again? 
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Gaming PC: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R | 2.4GHz Q6600 @3.0GHz | 8Gb 800 DDR2 | Gigabyte GTS450 1Gb | On-board sound | Window 7 64bit |
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Antaran
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 135 on topic
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 12:47 Post subject: |
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| NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote: |
| Antaran wrote: |
| 1. Steam is still on your computer, it is a client that you are pretty much forced to install if you wan´t to use the product, you say there is a choice but that is pretty much not true since you have no choice, if you wan´t to use the product.. |
And if the product used a different system such as TAGES/SecuROM/whatever then you'd be forced to have that installed on your system if you wanted to use it so what's essentially the difference?
Visibility. You can see Steam.
People say they want a disc version of games because they 'don't trust Steam' but you're going to get some form of DRM no matter what as there's very few games released unsecured. So what these people who 'don't trust Steam' are essentially saying is they have an issue with a centralised DRM system like Steamworks, that they can see and whose function they can turn on and off as they choose, because of what it might be doing to their precious machine... but at the same time they're perfectly happy to install half a dozen games on their system which could have wildly different DRM systems, with little if any understanding of what DRM system they're actually installing or what it might be doing to their machine in itself or in combination with another competing DRM... and that's apparently perfectly ok..
I guess out of sight, out of mind is a truism.  |
You are still missing the point, sure Tages/etc... get installed on the computer, however they do not need a client running that requires a username and login and the game tied to an account.
This is a huge difference to me, and yes it does make a difference if you notice the thing or not, like the leader of the steam religion has said himself, DRM only works if you do not notice it is there, and sadly he has failed miserably in his own logic.
Fallout 3 was a great example of that, install game->disk activation->play.
It is about as simple as it gets.
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AkrionXxarr
Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 295 on topic
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 13:14 Post subject: |
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| Antaran wrote: |
| This is a huge difference to me, and yes it does make a difference if you notice the thing or not, like the leader of the steam religion has said himself, DRM only works if you do not notice it is there, and sadly he has failed miserably in his own logic. |
So those of us who are supporters of Steam are now part of a religion, eh?
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dougeye
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 1715 on topic
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 13:19 Post subject: |
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Fallout 3 required Games for windows live!!! and your complaining about steam lol
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ANTEC 1200 V3 - (Modified with gentle typhoon fans) - INTEL i7 2700k 4.7ghz (OC) - ROG Maximus 4 Extreme MOBO - 2x NVIDIA GTX 580 SLI - 16gb Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz ddr3 ram - 120 gb OCZ Vertex 3 SATA 3 6gb (speed) SSD - 600gb WD Velociraptor HDD - Corsair 1000w PSU - ALC Vantage CPU liquid cooler (modified with gentle typhoon fans) + 2gb storage and super fast silent optical drives - BEAST!!!!! |
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Pesanur
 
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 795 on topic
Location: PCS Deathclaw, Akuma class destoyer.
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 13:23 Post subject: |
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| Stars_InTheirEyes wrote: |
I dont mind steam. It's in-game overlay is useful. and its easy access to games is good for finding new stuff. Lotsa sales too.
What I dont want is something similar to what Ubisoft done with Assassins Creed. Not only does it need steam, it needs it's own client thing to run at the same time.
Im all for steam. Plus im terrible with discs. |
Don't remind me Ubisoft, I've have the Dark Messiah, that have Securom for the stand-alone mode and Steam for the multiplayer.
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DLC's? No, thank you. I'm only buy full games. |
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Paranoid66
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2856 on topic
Location: Beyond 'X'
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 13:57 Post subject: |
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The evils of online registration have resulted in me buying an Xbox to play Skyrim. I fear this sort of thing will happen to many PC gamers who do not have good internet connections or broadband at home.
Of course this will not help me with Rebirth if it arrives steam only. It is also a bit embarrassing resorting to a cursed console to play games. I hate the stupid joypad miss my mouse and keyboard. 
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Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII
Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity. |
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Nova Scotia
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 251 on topic
Location: Nova Scotia , Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 15:34 Post subject: |
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| Paranoid66 wrote: |
The evils of online registration have resulted in me buying an Xbox to play Skyrim. I fear this sort of thing will happen to many PC gamers who do not have good internet connections or broadband at home.
Of course this will not help me with Rebirth if it arrives steam only. It is also a bit embarrassing resorting to a cursed console to play games. I hate the stupid joypad miss my mouse and keyboard. |
To get your space legs still a movin until the Stand alone Rebirth is released you could try
Freelancer with either the Discovery mod or Crossfire 1.9.Steam free DRM free
I settle on Crossfire 1.9 ,expanded story line for single player,multiplayer aswell ,updated graphics.
I already had Freelancer but it still can be gotten at Amazon.
It is a big mod ,so you might have to find a friend with a Unlimited Data account, that's what I did.
Once you got your disk and your mod on a stick ,just like the previous X games you can reload ,reinstall,reformat and install again and again, without no internet access or anyone's permission unless you choose to update.
The choices are yours .It is your PC not a public Pc access point
http://www.moddb.com/mods/crossfire
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Zengaze
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 67 on topic
Location: Life
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 17:27 Post subject: |
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And that is exactly the point Nova.
I will not tolerate a third party being introduced between myself and the game i purchased which dictates if and when i can access the game i purchased.
Hint to Egosoft: Deepsilver just joined the line of publishers lining up to top themselves, 10 years from now the only publisher around will be Steam, when you have the distribution network sewn up it's the next logical step. Is this good for gaming or niche game devs. HELL NO!
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Our philosophy conquers our past and future problems. Our present problems conquer our philosophy.
Francois Duc de la Rochefoucauld |
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Vitez
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 538 on topic
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 18:04 Post subject: |
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I think most of the anti-steam group thinks Valve does something like this when people aren't looking 
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dougeye
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 1715 on topic
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 18:11 Post subject: |
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When you say "I" will not tolerate a third party getting between me and "MY" game "I" purchased etc etc you forget that the EULA's are different nowadays and by selecting "I" accept the terms of this agreement you are accepting that to use the license for the media you agree that the owners of the property, e.g the games developer / distributer can require you to use a third party application like steam to run "their" product in most cases.
Unfortunatly gamers only realy own a license to the software, not the software itself. The in's and outs of ownership are a whole different kettle of fish though!
When i install / play any game i agree knowing full well it is a license and i put faith in the company i have purchased the game from to deliver on there side of the licensing agreement.
If i dont agree with this i dont play the games, but im personnally not that defensive over the product license i have bought, essentially you own the piece of plastic and the box it comes in, the data on the disc still belongs to the developer, if they said congratulations you now own the X Rebirth data on the disc you would be free to copy and sell it lol
also in regards to a gaming industry steam takover, given the choice between valve and EA i would vote Valve but again thats a humungous kettle of fish! its like a boron mass grave that subject!! lol
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ANTEC 1200 V3 - (Modified with gentle typhoon fans) - INTEL i7 2700k 4.7ghz (OC) - ROG Maximus 4 Extreme MOBO - 2x NVIDIA GTX 580 SLI - 16gb Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz ddr3 ram - 120 gb OCZ Vertex 3 SATA 3 6gb (speed) SSD - 600gb WD Velociraptor HDD - Corsair 1000w PSU - ALC Vantage CPU liquid cooler (modified with gentle typhoon fans) + 2gb storage and super fast silent optical drives - BEAST!!!!! |
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Slashman
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1280 on topic
Location: Barbados
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 18:57 Post subject: |
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| Zengaze wrote: |
| Hint to Egosoft: Deepsilver just joined the line of publishers lining up to top themselves, 10 years from now the only publisher around will be Steam, when you have the distribution network sewn up it's the next logical step. Is this good for gaming or niche game devs. HELL NO! |
Steam isn't a publisher. Valve is a publisher. Valve publishes Valve games. Even with all the hundreds of indie games on Steam...I can'tthink of one off-hand that Valve publishes. Well there is Alien Swarm...but they give that away for free.
People keep misrepresenting the purpose of Steam and the purpose of publishers. Publishers are the ones who provide funding, marketing and physical media production for developers. Valve doesn't seem very interested in taking on that role for anyone apart from themselves and maybe one or two titles I can't think of off the top of my head.
Steam is there to digitally distribute games. That's its function. It does this more successfully than any other platform because the very thing you dislike about it(the Steam client) is one of its greatest strengths to its customers. It puts thousands of games at your fingertips. And apparently, for several million people, this is a good thing.
Publishers aren't going away because funding for larger game projects still need more than the average small developer can reliably provide for itself. That's why developers who start independent and see some growth, tend to gravitate toward publishers. It's more reliable cash plus several other benefits that a small studio couldn't do by themselves.
Steam has proved time and again to be remarkably good for small game developers. I can't cont the number of games that would never see the light of day without it. Sanctum, Bastion, Orcs Must Die, Grotesque Tactics, Hard Reset and hundreds of others.
Even if what you were saying was true and publishers would go away, that would actually be GOOD for gaming in the sense that developers would be less constrained(provided they could secure funding for larger projects).
I honestly don't care that you hate Steam...but I can't see that it makes your case more credible to inaccurately represent it.
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If you want a different perspective, stand on your head. |
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Cycrow
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 19848 on topic
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 19:10 Post subject: |
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| dougeye wrote: |
| When you say "I" will not tolerate a third party getting between me and "MY" game "I" purchased etc etc you forget that the EULA's are different nowadays and by selecting "I" accept the terms of this agreement you are accepting that to use the license for the media you agree that the owners of the property, e.g the games developer / distributer can require you to use a third party application like steam to run "their" product in most cases. |
actually thier not different now, they have always been that way. Its just no one really paid much attention to them before.
they only really pay attention to them when it suits thier arguments
If they like the company/distrubtion method, etc. Then the eula doesn't mean anything
if they dont like the company/distrubtion method, etc. Then the eula suddenly has meaning and proves thier point about how bad it is
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Nova Scotia
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 251 on topic
Location: Nova Scotia , Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 19:32 Post subject: |
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I have no problem with Steam being a distributer for Xrebirth.
I would prefer a disc but if that is not available ,I would download ,although in my case I would have to pay for the software and the cost of the data.
But
Once my download is finish,steams comes off MY PC and I can use the software that I purchased and legally use it as I see fit.
Steam is not only distributing XRebirth to your PC ,it is also a Cyber Retail Store and want its client on your PC to advertise and sell you more software.
Would you allow Amazon to put its software on your pc ,just because you made a purchase from them.
Maybe we should allow the Avon lady daily access to our home,so we can browse his or her wares
If I was to purchase the cd from a retail shop,I don't plan on putting up the retail clerk in my spare bedroom
Not sure why that is so difficult for some to comprehend.
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Cycrow
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 19848 on topic
Location: London
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Slashman
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1280 on topic
Location: Barbados
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| Posted: Fri, 6. Jan 12, 20:13 Post subject: |
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To all the folks who have previously speculated that Steamworks games would lead to failure, take a look at this.
This also highlights the growth of the platform over the last year.
I guarantee you, Deepsilver/Egosoft aren't going to run from something like this.
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