Seeking help with fighting.
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Seeking help with fighting.
How do you people deal with M8s?
I have taken some protect missions where two or more M8s are part of the attackers. I have not found a way to deal with them effectively.
I normally travel around with a very light carrier with about 20 fighters (Aamon P, Falcon H and Blastclaw P). They have proven a very effective force to deal with most enemies, from fighters to the biggest capital ships I have come across.
When they have come up against the 3 M8s (with a very serious case of Tomahawk Diarrhea) although I would always win the battle (I had a few tries), I would take far too many casualties.
At the moment I am going in with my Aamon P or Blastclaw alone to avoid massive losses.
I load the ship with at least 50 mosquitos and some offensive missiles, I have some success with disruptors. I head straight for them and hope for the best, dodging their missiles while trying to take them out.
They seem to be very thick skinned, their hulls appear to go down slower than expected.
I have only had a couple of tries with this approach and although they were successful it could be that I got lucky.
Regardless I would like a more professional strategy, one that makes better use of my resources, if possible
My fighters, except my own, have all the missile defence mosquito set to convoy MDMC. The idea being that this they would take out all hostile missiles.
Is this a bad idea?
I have taken some protect missions where two or more M8s are part of the attackers. I have not found a way to deal with them effectively.
I normally travel around with a very light carrier with about 20 fighters (Aamon P, Falcon H and Blastclaw P). They have proven a very effective force to deal with most enemies, from fighters to the biggest capital ships I have come across.
When they have come up against the 3 M8s (with a very serious case of Tomahawk Diarrhea) although I would always win the battle (I had a few tries), I would take far too many casualties.
At the moment I am going in with my Aamon P or Blastclaw alone to avoid massive losses.
I load the ship with at least 50 mosquitos and some offensive missiles, I have some success with disruptors. I head straight for them and hope for the best, dodging their missiles while trying to take them out.
They seem to be very thick skinned, their hulls appear to go down slower than expected.
I have only had a couple of tries with this approach and although they were successful it could be that I got lucky.
Regardless I would like a more professional strategy, one that makes better use of my resources, if possible
My fighters, except my own, have all the missile defence mosquito set to convoy MDMC. The idea being that this they would take out all hostile missiles.
Is this a bad idea?
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- Moderator (English)
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While it will not help using your fighters, the CIG is very effective as a torpedo/heavy missile killer at range because of its one-shot kill and large hit-box of the bullet.
MDM is good but don't expect 100% success. One problem with MDM is that it first launches with insufficient approach accuracy and the first missile often just swoops around the incoming torpedo/missile until a second missile does the job with a direct head-on collision at closer range.
I like to get something big (some hapless station) between myself and the M8s while they waste their missiles on the obstacle and get close enough to be ambushed. Naturally asteroids and rocks are not long-lasting as shields. At closer range, your fire detonating their own missiles on launch often sees an end to them and any nearby fighters. You can even get a local capital ship and its escort involved in the fight on your side by positioning so that their missiles annoy them!
MDM is good but don't expect 100% success. One problem with MDM is that it first launches with insufficient approach accuracy and the first missile often just swoops around the incoming torpedo/missile until a second missile does the job with a direct head-on collision at closer range.
I like to get something big (some hapless station) between myself and the M8s while they waste their missiles on the obstacle and get close enough to be ambushed. Naturally asteroids and rocks are not long-lasting as shields. At closer range, your fire detonating their own missiles on launch often sees an end to them and any nearby fighters. You can even get a local capital ship and its escort involved in the fight on your side by positioning so that their missiles annoy them!
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- Old Drullo321
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I have no problems with M8 missile spam, however I don't use wings (don't see any use in them when you can take out all alone and iirc only get fighter rang points when doing the last hit).
The key against any missile spam is a) to have turrets and b) to set them all on "missile defence" (maybe for little AI ships "missilce defence only" would be better).
Another key against missiles are fast weapons (in turrets), so a HEPT isn't a good choice against them. So dont always put the best weapon on the paper in a (AI) turret.
For comparison I usually fight with an Hyperion Vanguard (M6), Cobra (M7M) or Boreas (M2). While the bigger ships are no comparison here, I don't use any mosquito in my Hyperion, even when facing ~3 M8 in missions or war sectors.
Another idea (for own usage) would be the use of swarm missiles like the wasp. Sometimes they work wonder against missile spam
The key against any missile spam is a) to have turrets and b) to set them all on "missile defence" (maybe for little AI ships "missilce defence only" would be better).
Another key against missiles are fast weapons (in turrets), so a HEPT isn't a good choice against them. So dont always put the best weapon on the paper in a (AI) turret.
For comparison I usually fight with an Hyperion Vanguard (M6), Cobra (M7M) or Boreas (M2). While the bigger ships are no comparison here, I don't use any mosquito in my Hyperion, even when facing ~3 M8 in missions or war sectors.
Another idea (for own usage) would be the use of swarm missiles like the wasp. Sometimes they work wonder against missile spam
@Alan:
CIG for missile defense, I would not have thought of that but it makes sense as the usually preferred lasers seem to mostly scratch the paintwork off the heavy missiles.
Thanks.
On my personal fighter the MDM is doing a great job, also I am using one of my favourites "Weapon - XaiCorp-MissileDef-HK-X3TC-1.0" that lets me target any incoming missile by proximity and together with "Weapon Select Extension" which gives me shortcuts to 4 different missile launch,
I am spoiled for choice as far as what missile to hit those heavy Missiles with.
I was curious if you guys are getting any use out of the MDM convoy option not the standard command.
@ Drullo:
Like I said above I find that the general rules about turrets and missile defense go right in the bin when dealing with these heavy missiles. The faster lasers are hitting but are taking far too long to kill.
I use wings mainly because I like to be in the middle of many fighters dogfighting. I would get bored of using a single ship for everything.
I did it in previous games, with the Hyperion.
It killed just about everything it came across, it obliterated scores of enemy fighters and that was before I fitted it with PSGs.
- - -
Both your posts give me the idea that when dealing with M8s is best for me to take them out personally, leaving my AI ships to watch from a safe distance.
I will take your advice, thanks.
CIG for missile defense, I would not have thought of that but it makes sense as the usually preferred lasers seem to mostly scratch the paintwork off the heavy missiles.
Thanks.
On my personal fighter the MDM is doing a great job, also I am using one of my favourites "Weapon - XaiCorp-MissileDef-HK-X3TC-1.0" that lets me target any incoming missile by proximity and together with "Weapon Select Extension" which gives me shortcuts to 4 different missile launch,
I am spoiled for choice as far as what missile to hit those heavy Missiles with.
I was curious if you guys are getting any use out of the MDM convoy option not the standard command.
@ Drullo:
Like I said above I find that the general rules about turrets and missile defense go right in the bin when dealing with these heavy missiles. The faster lasers are hitting but are taking far too long to kill.
I use wings mainly because I like to be in the middle of many fighters dogfighting. I would get bored of using a single ship for everything.
I did it in previous games, with the Hyperion.
It killed just about everything it came across, it obliterated scores of enemy fighters and that was before I fitted it with PSGs.
- - -
Both your posts give me the idea that when dealing with M8s is best for me to take them out personally, leaving my AI ships to watch from a safe distance.
I will take your advice, thanks.
I use MDM (C) a lot in my DiD. I tend to fly around in my HCP with my 8 strong Tenjin wing as back up, and since all of the pilots for the Tenjins are some of my readers I don't want them getting taken out, so an extensive missile screen has been part of my play since day 1 lol.
When I'm not playing my DiD I like PRGs as my primary missile defence. Long ranged at 2.2km or so combined with a high bullet speed makes them a pretty good anti missile weapon. PACs are good also, but have a shorter range and PBEs are awesome....as long as the incoming missile doesn't have a large blast radius
When I'm not playing my DiD I like PRGs as my primary missile defence. Long ranged at 2.2km or so combined with a high bullet speed makes them a pretty good anti missile weapon. PACs are good also, but have a shorter range and PBEs are awesome....as long as the incoming missile doesn't have a large blast radius
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DiD means "Dead is Dead" - in other words, no reloads when things go wrong. There are really two ways to do it - one is self control. This gives you the option of reloading in case something goes wrong if the game crashes/you hit a bug/whatever. The other is using the DiD mode in Steam where you effectively select "Save & Exit" which creates you a save game and kicks you out of the program. Then when you reload, you can select to continue that save, but it'll be deleted once loaded. This means if the game crashes, you've lost it
But, it stops you being a weak willed cop out and reloading if you do something wrong
Tim
But, it stops you being a weak willed cop out and reloading if you do something wrong
Tim
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- DrBullwinkle
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Re: Seeking help with fighting.
All good tips above; the combination of MDM and turrets set to Missile Defense rocks. Especially with fast weapons such as PBE's on the turrets.
Your technique of approaching the M8 in a single ship is a good one. As you say, try to get within weapons range quickly, in order to avoid prolonged exposure to Tomahawks.
But this part does not seem right:
A common mistake is to try to use too many high-energy weapons, which drains your laser energy too quickly. More efficient weapons, or a combination of energy and ammunition-based weapons, are more effective.
PBG's are excellent if you have them.
In TC, Mass Drivers are vicious; they tear any light ship apart in seconds. In AP they are far less effective, due to the thicker hulls.
The Aamon is unique in its ability to mount EMPC's, which are energy efficient and lethal.
If you are playing AP and do not have EMPC's, then try PAC's. They are energy efficient and have a fast, large, bullet, which means that you will have more hits on target. That results in faster kills than a heavy, slow, small bullet such as HEPT.
Your technique of approaching the M8 in a single ship is a good one. As you say, try to get within weapons range quickly, in order to avoid prolonged exposure to Tomahawks.
But this part does not seem right:
M8's are heavier than M3's, but not as heavy as an M6. They usually go down fairly quickly. If you are having trouble killing M8's, then re-examine your weapons loadout.Brinnie wrote:[The M8's] seem to be very thick skinned, their hulls appear to go down slower than expected.
A common mistake is to try to use too many high-energy weapons, which drains your laser energy too quickly. More efficient weapons, or a combination of energy and ammunition-based weapons, are more effective.
PBG's are excellent if you have them.
In TC, Mass Drivers are vicious; they tear any light ship apart in seconds. In AP they are far less effective, due to the thicker hulls.
The Aamon is unique in its ability to mount EMPC's, which are energy efficient and lethal.
If you are playing AP and do not have EMPC's, then try PAC's. They are energy efficient and have a fast, large, bullet, which means that you will have more hits on target. That results in faster kills than a heavy, slow, small bullet such as HEPT.
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DrB. - Maybe the M8 seemed thick skinned to me because I was under pressure when I was shooting at it and I was missing lots of the shots.
I have to give another try to the PACs, I prefer the HEPTs as I get quicker kills with them but then I didn't think much of the Falcon Hs until you pointed out their effectiveness. Now they are my most used fighter, so I am going to take your advice on the PACs too and at the very least give them an extensive trial.
On my Aamon I use 4 HEPTs and 4 PRGs at the front and 2 PRGs on the turrets, while on the Aamons for the AI I use 4 EBCs in place of the PRGs at the front. When I am flying the Aamon myself I use the 4PRGs on M4s and M5s and I switch to HEPTs against anything else.
On the Blastclaw P I use EBCs on mains and PRGs on the turrets.
I'm doing the plot where I at war with the Terrans so I don't think I can acquire their weapons or can I?
- - -
@ Perkint, thanks for the info.
I don't think I could do that. I make too many mistakes and I am too used to reload when I do something wrong which is not a rare occurrence.
I have to give another try to the PACs, I prefer the HEPTs as I get quicker kills with them but then I didn't think much of the Falcon Hs until you pointed out their effectiveness. Now they are my most used fighter, so I am going to take your advice on the PACs too and at the very least give them an extensive trial.
On my Aamon I use 4 HEPTs and 4 PRGs at the front and 2 PRGs on the turrets, while on the Aamons for the AI I use 4 EBCs in place of the PRGs at the front. When I am flying the Aamon myself I use the 4PRGs on M4s and M5s and I switch to HEPTs against anything else.
On the Blastclaw P I use EBCs on mains and PRGs on the turrets.
I'm doing the plot where I at war with the Terrans so I don't think I can acquire their weapons or can I?
- - -
@ Perkint, thanks for the info.
I don't think I could do that. I make too many mistakes and I am too used to reload when I do something wrong which is not a rare occurrence.
EBCs combo nicely with PRGs in my experience, the high speed bullet of the PRG and the punch of the EBC make short work of most targets, and as long as you've got EBC ammo to spare you'll be able to fire for a lot longer before breaking off to recharge weapon energy.
Regarding DiD styled games, they are a challenge, no doubt about it lol. Although the one I'm writing is the first I've ever shared I've been playing DiD style games for about a year or so, so I've had plenty of practice. Having to know how to survive keeps you on your toes It's not for everyone though mate
Regarding DiD styled games, they are a challenge, no doubt about it lol. Although the one I'm writing is the first I've ever shared I've been playing DiD style games for about a year or so, so I've had plenty of practice. Having to know how to survive keeps you on your toes It's not for everyone though mate
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- DrBullwinkle
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Yeah, HEPT and PRG are the least energy-efficient weapons. Probably you are running out of laser power long before you can kill the M8.
Consider EBCG's instead of PRG on your own Aamon. EBCG's have a lot of the "goodness" of PRG without the energy problems. Half HEPT and half EBCG, with Mass Drivers in the turrets, would give you a LOT more laser energy for killing the M8's.
And, yeah, experiment with half (or all) PAC's. I have stopped using HEPT except for OOS ships. And it is a lot easier to get PAC's than it is to get HEPT's.
As for obtaining EMPC's (and other Terran weapons), sure, it is almost as easy to obtain them as an enemy as it is as a friend. Terrans are known for being stingy about selling their weapons, even to friends. But there are an unlimited supply of Terran ships -- so just kill a bunch of them and scoop up their dropped weapons. It's much easier than the shenanigans that some people go through to preserve a couple of weapon factories in Terran space!
Consider EBCG's instead of PRG on your own Aamon. EBCG's have a lot of the "goodness" of PRG without the energy problems. Half HEPT and half EBCG, with Mass Drivers in the turrets, would give you a LOT more laser energy for killing the M8's.
And, yeah, experiment with half (or all) PAC's. I have stopped using HEPT except for OOS ships. And it is a lot easier to get PAC's than it is to get HEPT's.
As for obtaining EMPC's (and other Terran weapons), sure, it is almost as easy to obtain them as an enemy as it is as a friend. Terrans are known for being stingy about selling their weapons, even to friends. But there are an unlimited supply of Terran ships -- so just kill a bunch of them and scoop up their dropped weapons. It's much easier than the shenanigans that some people go through to preserve a couple of weapon factories in Terran space!
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I'd disagree with Dr.B on the half HEPT/EBC combo, more based on bullet speed than anything else. Yes it will do huge amounts of damage, but you'll be missing the target a fair amount of the time. For me PRGs have proven to be far more accurate, but everyone's play style is different
PACs are an awesome weapon, but I tend to use them for shield stripping as they do far more shield damage than they do hull. I tend to find them quite energy hungry on most fighters though, although they are good for both small light targets and hitting heavier ones.
PACs are an awesome weapon, but I tend to use them for shield stripping as they do far more shield damage than they do hull. I tend to find them quite energy hungry on most fighters though, although they are good for both small light targets and hitting heavier ones.
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HEPT is actually my favorite M3 weapon, especially since ships of mine that can mount it will be using it OOS more often than not. Only real problem is that it's ineffective against M5 because of bullet speed, and the countermeasure is better flying on my part. As far as weapon shortages? I have never known the NPCs to make enough of any weapon for fleetwide applications, so I habitually make an end run around the problem by building complexes like this one to crank out my own.
The Hornet is your friend. In TC it's a one-shot kill. In AP it'll take two or even three shots, but it's fast, long ranged and deadly.
Other options are Hammerheads, or Firestorms.
But best of all is fighting fire with fire. Bring and M8 of your own and empty tubes. Tomahawks automatically pick up new targets including other missiles. They'll run out and vape any bomber, then go after fighters. Overkill? Sure. But fair is fair.
Other options are Hammerheads, or Firestorms.
But best of all is fighting fire with fire. Bring and M8 of your own and empty tubes. Tomahawks automatically pick up new targets including other missiles. They'll run out and vape any bomber, then go after fighters. Overkill? Sure. But fair is fair.
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My uneducated approach when piloting my M3 was to use PACs on faster/smaller targets such as M3s and M4s, and HEPTs on M3s and above. When I wanted to increase the chance of capturing I would switch to a single PAC regardless of the enemy 's fighter size (I am not sure if that actually made a difference). I use 3 different weapon groups "2", 4hepts "3" 4pacs, "4" 2pacs switching between them depending on the needs.
I discovered PRGs in AP and I found them better than the PACs, I like the extra range and rate of fire. I find them more effective at disposing of faster as well as heavier enemies than the PACs, so they replaced them but my favourite weapon for brutal and quick assault remains a 4 pack of HEPTs.
What I didn't really try is a full frontal load on the Amon P, only on the ones piloted by the AI. So I will try with 4 EBCs and 4 HEPTs and see what happens, I will also try several combos with PACs just in case I ruled them out too soon.
@ Kirlack:
No, it is not for me. IMHO DiD is for real life and "load and save" for games, unless I find a way to"reload" in life. In which case I will gladly change my mind.
@ DrBullwinkle:
I wasn't running out of juice, the Aamon P has plenty. I normally charge at the enemy, changing speed as necessary, and do as much damage as I can before breaking off (or getting blown up) I go passed them, turn around and do it again. Compared to when I attack M3s it seemed to take a lot longer to destroy the hull, but like I said I was probably worried about headbutting a tomahawk and that made seconds last longer.
I will go looking for some donations of EMPCs in terrain sectors, I am curious about new weapons.
@StarSword:
I share your preference of the HEPTs and although I agree with you regarding increasing difficulty when shooting at M5s, I switch to another weapon group for them. Unless I am in no danger, in which case I hold fire till they get closer and then hit them with short bursts of HEPTs to watch them going from 100/100 to BOOM in a moment.
@Triaxx2:
I will try those missiles.
After a few encounters with M8s on protect/assassinate missions a couple of pilots have had a change of attitude towards me and kindly left me 2 gladiators. So I will try the fight fire with fire approach, I will have to put down a factory so I can stockpile the ammo.
I discovered PRGs in AP and I found them better than the PACs, I like the extra range and rate of fire. I find them more effective at disposing of faster as well as heavier enemies than the PACs, so they replaced them but my favourite weapon for brutal and quick assault remains a 4 pack of HEPTs.
What I didn't really try is a full frontal load on the Amon P, only on the ones piloted by the AI. So I will try with 4 EBCs and 4 HEPTs and see what happens, I will also try several combos with PACs just in case I ruled them out too soon.
@ Kirlack:
No, it is not for me. IMHO DiD is for real life and "load and save" for games, unless I find a way to"reload" in life. In which case I will gladly change my mind.
@ DrBullwinkle:
I wasn't running out of juice, the Aamon P has plenty. I normally charge at the enemy, changing speed as necessary, and do as much damage as I can before breaking off (or getting blown up) I go passed them, turn around and do it again. Compared to when I attack M3s it seemed to take a lot longer to destroy the hull, but like I said I was probably worried about headbutting a tomahawk and that made seconds last longer.
I will go looking for some donations of EMPCs in terrain sectors, I am curious about new weapons.
@StarSword:
I share your preference of the HEPTs and although I agree with you regarding increasing difficulty when shooting at M5s, I switch to another weapon group for them. Unless I am in no danger, in which case I hold fire till they get closer and then hit them with short bursts of HEPTs to watch them going from 100/100 to BOOM in a moment.
@Triaxx2:
I will try those missiles.
After a few encounters with M8s on protect/assassinate missions a couple of pilots have had a change of attitude towards me and kindly left me 2 gladiators. So I will try the fight fire with fire approach, I will have to put down a factory so I can stockpile the ammo.