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[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?
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Would you purchase Rebirth if Steam is required...
Just for activation
8%
 8%  [ 210 ]
For activation and updates
62%
 62%  [ 1478 ]
I would never use Steam if it was the last surviving games platform
25%
 25%  [ 603 ]
If Steam required periodic log-ins to check your install
2%
 2%  [ 62 ]
Total Votes : 2353

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Slashman





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PostPosted: Tue, 6. Nov 12, 02:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Rabiator der II. wrote:
eladan wrote:
Now whether it might be possible to install a steam game on a connected PC and put steam in offline mode, then do all of the stuff you mentioned to transfer it to a non-connected PC with steam installed in offline mode, I don't know. But that's a pretty extreme attempt to end run around the real issue, that steam needs to connect to verify ownership on install. That is intentional, and I don't think there can be any doubt it's DRM.

Agreed, having to connect is the normal case in Steam and offline mode seems to be more of a temporary concession to the players.

There are also varying reports in online forums about how long offline mode worked for people. For some it seems to work permanently, others wrote that their games only worked offline for a few days and then demanded a login again.


There was apparently a bug in the Steam client that made it difficult to go into offline mode properly. It was reportedly addressed in a Steam client update a while ago. From what I heard on other game forums, this seems to be case, though I haven't really used offline mode extensively in a long time.


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TEKing66





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PostPosted: Tue, 6. Nov 12, 03:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I have been very successful in taking Steam offline at will. Once I understood the quirks of it.

The only limitations are that the PC Steam will be running on must be activated and the games must be up to date and in the "Ready to Play" state. So, you need to start Steam one time on that PC in Online mode, the while you are logged in Tell Steam to go to Offline Mode. Steam will restart in Offline mode, and do so every time it is started (as long as it doesn't see an internet connection when it is starting up). I would really like to see it prompt the user to go online or stay in Offline mode on start up, at least once Offline mode has been achieved.

I have even deactivated my internet connection, put Steam in Offline mode and then reactivated my internet connection. After doing this I left Steam running for a week, and honestly this surprised me, it never tried to phone home or update once (that I am aware of, while sleeping at night it might have, not sure there). So, at least for me, Steam's Offline mode seems to work pretty well. I will say this, I meter my internet usage, and with Steam running offline for two weeks, I can account for every byte downloaded and/or uploaded. And none of the data could have been Steam phoning home without my knowledge.

Even though I don't care for Steam, and would rather have my games Steam Free. I will still give an honest opinion based on my own experience in using Steam, be it good or bad or for or against Steam.


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Pesanur



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PostPosted: Tue, 6. Nov 12, 18:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Is long time that I not put steam in off-line mode, but at least before, their call home also in off-line mode, since their advice of client updates. I don't know if now this have been changed.

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A5PECT





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PostPosted: Wed, 7. Nov 12, 02:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Quote:
(as long as it doesn't see an internet connection when it is starting up)

I ran Steam in offline mode for about six months without it asking to go online, even if the computer had an internet connection.

I hate to dredge up old topics of discussion (though I guess that's all this thread is good for now), I recently fired up my Xbox 360 again and it had to download an update from Xbox Live. Guess what it came with?

Changes to the ToS.

In fact, the first one mentioned is a waiver against class action suits.


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strude





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PostPosted: Wed, 7. Nov 12, 06:46    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

KloHunt3r wrote:
... I recently fired up my Xbox 360 again and it had to download an update from Xbox Live. Guess what it came with?

Changes to the ToS.

In fact, the first one mentioned is a waiver against class action suits.

You know that you've just ruined gaming for many people, possibly a "large percentage" or even a "majority"? Shocked Rolling Eyes


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Slashman





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PostPosted: Wed, 7. Nov 12, 15:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

strude wrote:
KloHunt3r wrote:
... I recently fired up my Xbox 360 again and it had to download an update from Xbox Live. Guess what it came with?

Changes to the ToS.

In fact, the first one mentioned is a waiver against class action suits.

You know that you've just ruined gaming for many people, possibly a "large percentage" or even a "majority"? Shocked Rolling Eyes


This bodes ill for next-gen consoles...


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TEKing66





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PostPosted: Wed, 7. Nov 12, 16:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

A tech a Bethesda told me in a phone conversation that the Xbox version of Skyrim uses Steam for it's updates just like the PC version uses. Go figure.


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eladan





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PostPosted: Wed, 7. Nov 12, 16:22    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

TEKing66 wrote:
A tech a Bethesda told me in a hpone conversation that the Xbox version of Skyrim uses Steam for it's updates just like the PC version uses. Go figure.

I'd be very surprised if that's true, since steam would effectively be competing with Xbox Live.

The 'no class action' ToS change will make the rounds of every ToS eventually, unless they consider customer relations more important than their lawyers do. It was allowed to happen because of a silly court decision not too long ago that I can't recall off the top of my head.

:EDIT:

found a reference in the wikipedia article on class actions

Article wrote:
In the 2011 court case AT&T Mobility v. Concepcion, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a 5-4 decision that the Federal Arbitration Act of 1925 preempts state laws that prohibit contracts from disallowing class action lawsuits, which will make it more difficult for consumers to file class action lawsuits. The dissent pointed to a saving clause in the federal act which allowed states to determine how a contract or its clauses may be revoked


This of course is a US court decision, and whether the ToS change might affect any other country which can have class action lawsuits won't be clear until/unless tested. US is probably out of luck unless it becomes clear to the Supreme Court how the decision is being abused.

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Slashman





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PostPosted: Wed, 7. Nov 12, 18:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

TEKing66 wrote:
A tech a Bethesda told me in a phone conversation that the Xbox version of Skyrim uses Steam for it's updates just like the PC version uses. Go figure.


That actually cannot be the case since every update via Xbox needs to be approved by Microsoft and delivered by their update servers over Xbox Live.

Xbox games using Steam are about as likely as Nintendo using the PSN to deliver updates for Wii games.


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fox jumps
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PostPosted: Sun, 11. Nov 12, 18:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

My last post in this topic (probably, lol)

Many thanks to Quase who intoduced me to GOG. Since then I have picked up 6 titles all shipping defective free (no DRM and no need of internet access to play). I will be picking up many more.

Alas, Ego has chosen to go steam only and whilst I have held out on the chance they may reconsider, I don't think Ego care about losing loyal customers due to their new steam only stance. It's fair to say that I didn't care about Albion Prelude and will continue to not care about Rebirth as long as steam is a requirement.

Good luck with Rebirth Ego! I will be spending my money elsewhere.

I just picked up Freespace 2 this evening on GOG, DRM free for less than 3 dollars and plan on taking advantage of the modding communities that have updated many graphical features.

Maybe one day Ego will return to the good old days of providing space sims that are accessable to all, instead of shafting their own consumer base with bull third party solutions that are, at the end of the day, only put in place to maximise their profit. Good old fashioned greed.

Meanwhile, my cash goes to Good old Games.

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1stRaymond





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PostPosted: Sun, 11. Nov 12, 19:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I would use Steam as long as I can buy a hard copy for my own use and for registration if required. If I cannot get a CD/DVD of the game I am buying - I will not use any service that ties me to the internet for game play. Our internet service is unreliable at best and I prefer to be able to play when I want - not when I have internet service and need to maintain that internet service to continue play.

If Ego wants to use Steam that is fine, as long as I can still purchase the games on separate media and not as a download. If Steam will not sell me a CD/DVD for a game - I don't buy and spend my money somewhere else.

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StarSword



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PostPosted: Sun, 11. Nov 12, 20:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

1stRaymond wrote:
I would use Steam as long as I can buy a hard copy for my own use and for registration if required. If I cannot get a CD/DVD of the game I am buying - I will not use any service that ties me to the internet for game play. Our internet service is unreliable at best and I prefer to be able to play when I want - not when I have internet service and need to maintain that internet service to continue play.

If Ego wants to use Steam that is fine, as long as I can still purchase the games on separate media and not as a download. If Steam will not sell me a CD/DVD for a game - I don't buy and spend my money somewhere else.

As I recall they're releasing it as a Steamworks DVD (akin to Skyrim) and as direct download. As for your Internet problems, I sympathize; I was originally against Steam-only for that very reason. I found the easiest way to get to the game when our connection was acting up was to switch Steam to offline mode. If I couldn't get into Steam to begin with, I disconnected the whole computer from our LAN to force the client to start offline.


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strude





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Nov 12, 03:27    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

fox jumps wrote:
... I don't think Ego care about losing loyal customers ...

A customer they lose isn't exactly loyal. The loyal ones are those that stick out the hard times.


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eladan





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Nov 12, 04:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

strude wrote:
A customer they lose isn't exactly loyal. The loyal ones are those that stick out the hard times.

The customer doesn't necessarily have a choice.

I'd class myself as a loyal customer, yet ES may lose me simply because I currently have no way to play steam games. ES making it impossible for me to play their games doesn't make me disloyal.

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Slashman





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Nov 12, 04:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

fox jumps wrote:
Maybe one day Ego will return to the good old days of providing space sims that are accessable to all, instead of shafting their own consumer base with bull third party solutions that are, at the end of the day, only put in place to maximise their profit. Good old fashioned greed.

Meanwhile, my cash goes to Good old Games.


Maybe I've misunderstood the point of a company, but isn't maximizing profit the whole point of a business in the first place?

Any decision a company makes is going to be about making more money. We could argue that each decision shouldn't just be about immediate profits at the loss of long term returns, however.

I honestly don't think that moving to s Steam only release is about more money from purchases of the game, but more about ease of support and updating. In that context it simply makes sense. It makes the game easier to update and maintain.


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