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[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?
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Would you purchase Rebirth if Steam is required...
Just for activation
8%
 8%  [ 210 ]
For activation and updates
62%
 62%  [ 1478 ]
I would never use Steam if it was the last surviving games platform
25%
 25%  [ 603 ]
If Steam required periodic log-ins to check your install
2%
 2%  [ 62 ]
Total Votes : 2353

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Stars_InTheirEyes





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 04:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

For you non-steam preachers, can I ask you a simple question?

Have you tried Steam?

The phrase "don't mock it till you've tried it" is very much true for steam.

You hear one person's bad experience and assume the same thing will happen to you but in truth nothing bad will ever happen.


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Captain Lemmiwinks





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 04:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
For you non-steam preachers, can I ask you a simple question?

Have you tried Steam?

The phrase "don't mock it till you've tried it" is very much true for steam.

You hear one person's bad experience and assume the same thing will happen to you but in truth nothing bad will ever happen.



you also hear of 1 persons good experience and assume the same will happen to you.

then you install it and find it has no use other than to >
use memory,
take space,
poke its nose into your system,
spam you with ads,
turn a gameplay experience into a nightmare
draining a monthly bandwidth allowance,
install bad patchs without consent,

unless of course you know something steam actually does that benefits the gamer.

we used to just buy a game,install it and play

with steam its just hoops and problems.

the rallying cry these days if a game crashes is to "get steam to check game files"

game files never used to corrupt so badly that they needed re-installing every other day.

I dont hate steam,its just a company trying to screw...i mean make money.
problem is its trying to make money while providing nothing in return but problems.

the only people to benefit are the developers,who seem to think nothing of passing us on to a vampiric company while at the same time trying to curry loyalty.

"game crashed ?,steams fault"
"tech support ?..go ask steam"

steams tech support = re-download the game files over and over and over again.

if theres indeed nothing spurious about developers deals with steam,why wont they tell us why they have funnelled gamers into draculas lair ?

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Slashman





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 07:03    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
you also hear of 1 persons good experience and assume the same will happen to you.

then you install it and find it has no use other than to >
use memory,
take space,


Every program you install on your PC does this. It's kind of a given.

Quote:
poke its nose into your system,


You can opt out of the hardware and software survey.

Quote:
spam you with ads,


You can turn off game ad pop-ups

Quote:
turn a gameplay experience into a nightmare


By doing what exactly?

Quote:
draining a monthly bandwidth allowance,


It's an online service. It connects to the internet if you're online and has features which use the internet.

Quote:
install bad patchs without consent,


Developers release bad patches. And I'm not a fan of the auto install thing. However, Steam has a beta patch facility which I wish more developers would use. It allows testing of new patches for those who want to opt in and leaves the last patch version until the beta patch has been officially approved. Several developers are using this method.

Quote:
unless of course you know something steam actually does that benefits the gamer.


Well lets see. Community groups. Built-in screenshot facility. Cloud storage for saved games. Friend lists and recommendations. Organization of your games into categories. Ability to install your game on any system without discs. Awesome sales. Integrated voice chat and game servers for supported games. When you buy one game you own it on all platforms(PC, Mac and Linux) without having to purchase a separate copy for each.

Quote:
we used to just buy a game,install it and play


I did that just today. Sacred 2 Gold. Bought it, downloaded it. Hit play, it installed and immediately launched the game.

Quote:
with steam its just hoops and problems.


That's simply not universally true.

Quote:
the rallying cry these days if a game crashes is to "get steam to check game files"


Actually, a lot of the time that has to do with developers pushing bad updates out.

Quote:
game files never used to corrupt so badly that they needed re-installing every other day.


Mine certainly don't need resinstalling every other day...or at all really.

Interesting story. Year before last I swore that STeam was corrupting my game files. Specifically, Serious Sam 3 would need re-verifying every few days. Other games were acting wonky and I assumed that because Steam was involved with each of them that it must be corrupted itself.

Turned out I had a faulty motherboard. I changed it, kept that exact same OS install, did not reinstall a thing except the new drivers for my new board and am still running that same Steam install and programs from then. No Steam-related crashes since. Lots of people don't realize that even a small hardware fault can cause extremely odd issues. My system was running everything else fine. Only in the very latter stages did I start to see an effect on other programs and Windows.

Quote:
I dont hate steam,its just a company trying to screw...i mean make money.
problem is its trying to make money while providing nothing in return but problems.


In your opinion. I quite like a number of its features.

Quote:
the only people to benefit are the developers,who seem to think nothing of passing us on to a vampiric company while at the same time trying to curry loyalty.


I think PC gaming as a whole has benefitted from Steam. Many games and developers would not be around today without it. It's got faults here and there, but it is nowehere near as catastrophic a deal as some people try to make it out.

Quote:
"game crashed ?,steams fault"
"tech support ?..go ask steam"


When is a game crashing automatically Steam's fault? Because the game was running on Steam at the time? I've seen very few cases of games crashing and being the fault of Steam itself.

Quote:
steams tech support = re-download the game files over and over and over again.


Steam tech support isn't tech support for the game itself. It's tech support for Steam. Most of the time you should probably be dealing with the developers for support if you're crashing.

Quote:
if theres indeed nothing spurious about developers deals with steam,why wont they tell us why they have funnelled gamers into draculas lair ?


How many more times must they say it? Or are they not saying what you want them to say? You want them to say it is a huge conspiracy to oppress the gaming public?

It really comes down using a platform that makes it easier for them to release and support their games without having to maintain multiple versions of them. Steam also offers a lot of other benefits to developers.

A developer doesn't have to take every single action based on a direct benefit to the gamer. They have a business to run.


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TTD





Joined: 06 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 10:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The advantages for me, concerning Steam....

No need of endless shelf space to store my boxed games.(although I do like them.).

Seamless downloads and updates when required.

Not many shops arounds selling new PC games.
Even second hand PC games are getting thin on the ground.

Main dissadvantage for me is

If wanting to play a game that has an update available,despite "checking" the no update box, it still insists on updating before I can play.

If I was,and sometimes I am, on mobilebroadband, it will use my monthly allowance.
When I switch on Steam,it auto updates before I get it's web page.

To get around this, I can just use my browser to go to the site ,and see if there is anything worth downloading,before I connect "properly".


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Ebany





Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 384 on topic
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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 13:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
Ebany wrote:
If you fell I'm spamming, please feel free to move to the new thread
You're still spamming this thread with links to one you started


Starting a thread isn't like been first in line for porridge, it brings no prestige. In fact, looking at my history you can see that I rarely participate in threads (though I have spent countless hours reading them) because I find my input is not required.

Of all the topics ever to have passed my eyes over the years, this I consider the most important by far. This topic will make me stay or go.

This is not so much a "thread" as it was a "poll". Again, this Poll is TWO (2) years old and about to hit the 100 page mark, more the point, the polling is closed. This thread is redundant. If you wish to discuss "current" issues regarding Egosoft's decision to use Steam and cast a vote, go to the new thread ..... or stay to see the last few pages of jibber-jabber.

For all the reasons I've just list, I don't really see it as possible to spam a thread which is about to close.

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
half the posts in your own thread are just you bumping it yourself


I think of it as "remaining active"

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
in a thread that brings nothing to the argument that this one doesn't provide already.


It's a "poll", arguing over some-ones subjective perspective on another's curious delusions negates any tangible finality, it's always confusing and non-productive

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
Ebany wrote:
even for a Steam luv'n fanboy Very Happy


This was an error, I apologise deeply. I would like to retract "fanboy", I meant to use zealot Very Happy


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Inverness





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 14:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ebany wrote:

For all the reasons I've just list, I don't really see it as possible to spam a thread which is about to close.

Well you're wrong and you will be reported if you continue.

If there is a need to move to a new thread with a new poll, a mod can close this topic. If they don't then you'll just have to deal with it.

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Ebany





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
you also hear of 1 persons good experience and assume the same will happen to you.

then you install it and find it has no use other than to >
use memory,
take space,


Every program you install on your PC does this. It's kind of a given.


Not a given on mine, u may need to upgrade ...

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
poke its nose into your system,


You can opt out of the hardware and software survey.


If you know about them, but read Steam's EULA & Privacy Policy and it specifically states they will continue to gather data (including personal details like name, credit card, etc) regardless of your say so.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
spam you with ads,


You can turn off game ad pop-ups


They would randomly "turn back on" for me, especially after a client update.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
turn a gameplay experience into a nightmare


By doing what exactly?


Really? Their Steam, we'd be here all day. It's great that you've had no issues, but others aren't so lucky.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
draining a monthly bandwidth allowance,


It's an online service. It connects to the internet if you're online and has features which use the internet.


So basically their "off-line" mode is a sham? Glad we cleared that up because I'm yet to find a way to dis-able the constant updates while I'm playing games. Even Microsoft lets you decide ........ and that's Microsoft!

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
install bad patchs without consent,


Developers release bad patches. And I'm not a fan of the auto install thing. However, Steam has a beta patch facility which I wish more developers would use. It allows testing of new patches for those who want to opt in and leaves the last patch version until the beta patch has been officially approved. Several developers are using this method.


I've seen this often, developers blame Steam, Steam blames the developers ...... in the end, who cares, we just want working products.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
unless of course you know something steam actually does that benefits the gamer.


Well lets see. Community groups. Built-in screenshot facility. Cloud storage for saved games. Friend lists and recommendations. Organization of your games into categories. Ability to install your game on any system without discs. Awesome sales. Integrated voice chat and game servers for supported games. When you buy one game you own it on all platforms(PC, Mac and Linux) without having to purchase a separate copy for each.


I will admit, Steam is the leader in most of these areas but many companies offer very same services, just slightly limited atm.

Still, Steam is a "Social Networking and Digital Distribution" facility before anything else, this is their speciality and they excel at it.


Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
we used to just buy a game,install it and play


I did that just today. Sacred 2 Gold. Bought it, downloaded it. Hit play, it installed and immediately launched the game.


Really? I bought one through Steam, had to register with Ubisoft, install crap-ware called U-play, download the game, screw with my firewall, mess with the game, email support about invalid user name, email support about CD-Key issues ...... a week later I gave up and wasn't able to get a refund.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
with steam its just hoops and problems.


That's simply not universally true.


I think you mean its "Universally Accepted" as the truth.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
the rallying cry these days if a game crashes is to "get steam to check game files"


Actually, a lot of the time that has to do with developers pushing bad updates out.


Developer again? I had vast amounts of trouble, most notably with Warhammer 40K. It kept having to correct 2 "corrupted files". It was a loop, every-time I would start it would download the 2 files and I would start again? Watch out Egosoft, apparently the developer copes all the blame when things go wrong........

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
game files never used to corrupt so badly that they needed re-installing every other day.


Mine certainly don't need resinstalling every other day...or at all really.


Blind luck, buy a lotto ticket now!

Slashman wrote:
Interesting story. Year before last I swore that STeam was corrupting my game files. Specifically, Serious Sam 3 would need re-verifying every few days. Other games were acting wonky and I assumed that because Steam was involved with each of them that it must be corrupted itself.

Turned out I had a faulty motherboard. I changed it, kept that exact same OS install, did not reinstall a thing except the new drivers for my new board and am still running that same Steam install and programs from then. No Steam-related crashes since. Lots of people don't realize that even a small hardware fault can cause extremely odd issues. My system was running everything else fine. Only in the very latter stages did I start to see an effect on other programs and Windows.


Jeeeesuzzzzz! I'm guessing you weren't running Windows ....... I just have to look at mine and it starts going funny. I had to do a full re-install after Win7 spat the dummy because I installed another 840 pro SSD.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
I dont hate steam,its just a company trying to screw...i mean make money.
problem is its trying to make money while providing nothing in return but problems.


In your opinion. I quite like a number of its features.


I like many of their features, the design dept they have should get a medal. The Steam UI runs seamlessly on all my devices, phone, tablet, laptop, PC. I can not fault them there ....... but they do screw us for money, repeatity and painfully.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
the only people to benefit are the developers,who seem to think nothing of passing us on to a vampiric company while at the same time trying to curry loyalty.


I think PC gaming as a whole has benefitted from Steam. Many games and developers would not be around today without it. It's got faults here and there, but it is nowehere near as catastrophic a deal as some people try to make it out.


I agree with Slashman on this one. While I prefer not to use Steam I cannot deny they have helped to change Digital delivery of game content in very positive ways, for this I will be eternally grateful.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
"game crashed ?,steams fault"
"tech support ?..go ask steam"


When is a game crashing automatically Steam's fault? Because the game was running on Steam at the time? I've seen very few cases of games crashing and being the fault of Steam itself.


Ummmm ..... I blame Steam regardless, after, the customer is never wrong Smile

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
steams tech support = re-download the game files over and over and over again.


Steam tech support isn't tech support for the game itself. It's tech support for Steam. Most of the time you should probably be dealing with the developers for support if you're crashing.


Yeah, you really need to research the web (Steam forums too) when dealing with Tech issues. I consider Steams links to content research in this area second only to GoG.

Slashman wrote:
Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:
if theres indeed nothing spurious about developers deals with steam,why wont they tell us why they have funnelled gamers into draculas lair ?


How many more times must they say it? Or are they not saying what you want them to say? You want them to say it is a huge conspiracy to oppress the gaming public?


Damn Capt, u really dislike Steam Smile

But developers get good benefits from teaming with Steam, you can't fault them in this as it makes sense from a business perspective. Using Steam as your sole distributor ........ well that's another thing altogether.

Slashman wrote:
It really comes down using a platform that makes it easier for them to release and support their games without having to maintain multiple versions of them. Steam also offers a lot of other benefits to developers.


Very true.

Slashman wrote:
A developer doesn't have to take every single action based on a direct benefit to the gamer. They have a business to run.


Also very true, but it's a fine line. The gamers pay the bills, more importantly than money though is the reputation gains from staying in favour of your most avid fans.

Comes a time in the life of most companies when they have reach a size (physically or financially) where the perspective starts to become more money orientated. This doesn't have to cause drastic changes, but it sometimes can, changes which can break a company.

*Blizzard - Diablo III. Used Blizzard's good reputation to excrete this buggy money driven unpolished piece of .....
*Sega - Sonic 360 .... Need I say more.
*EA - C & C (all the recent ones after Generals)
*Trion - Defiance. Trion has just shut down one of it's offices and got a new CEO.
*Rare - Famous for making the best and most popular games on Nitendo, Microsoft paid them a fortune to make games exclusively for the X-box ...... bad choice. Let just say that most people no longer remember Rare fondly.
*Adobe - Apple had almost slid into oblivion before their recent comeback which has damaged many companies, but none more than Adobe who refused to change their software to match the times.
*Nokia - They ruled the roost. They believed their customers should be forced to change with them.
*Yahoo - Who hears of them now?
*Gamespy - Dead in the water
*Microsoft - vista
*Microsoft - win8
*Microsoft - the new X-box
*Apple - Outwitters
*Atari - E.T. (This one fuked the entire gaming nation for years)
*Dikatana
*Panasonic 3DO
*Microsoft - X-Box One (DRM Issue)


http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps4-vs-xbox-720-which-is-better-1127315


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Inverness





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:16    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ebany wrote:

If you know about them, but read Steam's EULA & Privacy Policy and it specifically states they will continue to gather data (including personal details like name, credit card, etc) regardless of your say so.

That is blatantly wrong. Steam isn't going to take or use your credit card information without your consent.

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Ebany





Joined: 06 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:23    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Inverness wrote:
Ebany wrote:

For all the reasons I've just list, I don't really see it as possible to spam a thread which is about to close.

Well you're wrong and you will be reported if you continue.

If there is a need to move to a new thread with a new poll, a mod can close this topic. If they don't then you'll just have to deal with it.


How interesting. At first I smiled when this was suggested, said to myself;

"very rude but point taken, possibly been a bit too active having mentioned it twice."

Figured I'd make a joke and leave it. Most people would tell me "how" if I offended them (so I could offer an apology) but now I understand you simply lack for proper etiquette and manners.

If you find my behaviour offensive then report it, don't be immature and try to threaten me by saying so, I can't stand those types of tactics.


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Ebany





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:25    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Inverness wrote:
Ebany wrote:

If you know about them, but read Steam's EULA & Privacy Policy and it specifically states they will continue to gather data (including personal details like name, credit card, etc) regardless of your say so.

That is blatantly wrong. Steam isn't going to take or use your credit card information without your consent.


So you haven't read it? It specifically says they can and will take your credit card information. I never once stated they would use it without a persona consent. At least do a little research first.


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Chris0132





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Well yes, they have to take your credit card information in order for you to be able to buy things off them, because that's how buying things over the internet works.

I'm not sure if you've ever bought something off steam, or ever, over the internet, but you fill in your details, name and address and so on (because your credit card company generally require you to do so in order to use said card online) and your card information, then the order is placed and your goods are shipped and the money is deducted from your account.

E-commerce 101.

If you don't actually give them any of that information they can't exactly magic it out of your head, can they? And if you give it them when they ask you for it, that's called consent.

If you have a particular aversion to entering your card details into steam then you could always use paypal. Though I have a feeling that paypal is likely to also be terribly evil and also trying to suck your soul out through your ethernet cable or something.

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Inverness





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ebany wrote:

How interesting. At first I smiled when this was suggested, said to myself;

"very rude but point taken, possibly been a bit too active having mentioned it twice."

Figured I'd make a joke and leave it. Most people would tell me "how" if I offended them (so I could offer an apology) but now I understand you simply lack for proper etiquette and manners.

If you find my behaviour offensive then report it, don't be immature and try to threaten me by saying so, I can't stand those types of tactics.

I warn people that what they're doing is a problem instead of immediately hitting report, so that they can stop and take a look at what they're doing before things escalate further. If you take it as something nefarious then that is your problem. Rolling Eyes
Ebany wrote:

So you haven't read it? It specifically says they can and will take your credit card information. I never once stated they would use it without a persona consent. At least do a little research first.

You giving them your credit card information is how you do business. This is obvious to everyone, by bringing it up credit card information in regards data gathering you clearly implied that they were taking it without consent.

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elexis





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:44    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

There are incredibly strict laws as to how credit card information can be stored. These laws are all over the place, are very well worded and very far reaching. There isn't an EULA on the planet that can bypass them. If steam were to exploit them then it would have a whole hell of trouble from government and banking agencies around the world long before the larger userbase became aware of it.

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Chris0132





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

As I said before, EULAs continue to not be worth the paper they aren't printed on.

If I give you a piece of paper saying you sign over your house, belongings, family, friends, and place in the afterlife to me and get you to sign it, it doesn't make it true.

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Texhnolyzed





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PostPosted: Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

THis thread is priceless! Keep it going guys, this is probably more entertaining than X Rebirth will be.

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