|
|
 |
View previous topic :: View next topic |
|
|
|
|
|
Author |
Message |
|
|
|
|
|
Ulfarus
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 77 on topic
|
 Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 23:29 Post subject: |
   |
|
| Quote: |
| I have to disagree there... X is not just primarily a space flight simulator game. That's just one of the components. It is an economics simulator, logistics, warfare, fleet command, and many other things. |
I am sorry but X is only better than Eve as a flight sim, which is why I play it. I applaud the planned improvements but some of them such as targetable sub systems are not a new idea they are something that has been done going all the way back to the classic x-wing games.
As an economics simulator you have no chance against Eve, the commodities, logistics market is so complex in Eve because it is real people participating. It is so complex that it mimics real life stock market trading. X's supply and demand model is basic, in my opinion missions could do a lot to make this better.
The warfare, fleet command aspect in vanilla incarnations of X have been mediocre, it is only through the efforts of some very talented modders that the universe has come alive.
As for competing with Eve again you are on a hiding to nothing because until we get human level AI, real players beat this every time. The one thing in this respect that X has over Eve is that it is single player and the amount of effort you have to put in is much less.
Certainly these areas can be improved but don't throw out the main reason a lot of people play X, it isn't EVE and shouldn't be.
If they want the strategic game play give people control of capital ships but give them the options to truly command that ship. The UI for this should be different than for a fighter or freighter. You are looking at having a more RTS style interface, be it a command centre in your flagship or whatever.
Some of these things have started to be implemented by egosoft and modders but need further work. Things like :
Turret target priorities.
Proper formations so ships stay in formation.
Assigning orders easily and quickly to fleet ships.
designating ships to wings, squadrons etc
Outfitting.
In essence you are almost talking two games.
Some one mentioned mass effect, a game I loved except for the running around the damn ship it was irritating and a waste of time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
ZX9000
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 79 on topic
|
| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 23:36 Post subject: |
|
|
| Bill Bones wrote: |
Well, let's say that all you got is a cruiser class ship and the finals boss is a Battleship class. In EVE, you are dead meat in a matter of seconds, but here you are the Hero so your ship must be able to take on that enemy. |
Really? A cruiser can't beat a battleship boss? (and not only a cruiser, but a modular cruiser, which sounds like a strategic cruiser to me).
I'd be careful about accepting EVE-references from Bill Bones, folks 
On topic: what with drones to get your dogfight jollies, I don't think it's a crisis not being able to manually steer capital ships. Physics realism aside (because I'm not qualified), capital ships have crews doing all the stuff that needs doing. The captain sits in his chair saying "engage". Might as well say it in the chair of his comfy flagship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Xyberviri
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
|
| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 23:50 Post subject: |
|
|
Isn't the VR Room what you use to remotely control drones and ships and when they blow up you go back to the VR Room.
At last i though thats how i read it.
Really all this does is remove the Death aspect of the game where your ship blows up and its game over. as some players that are not good at flight sims might just be issueing orders remotely in X3:TC.
Heck as a trader I haven't killed anyone in my game on purpose, i have killed 2 npc's by accident because of seta. how ever my Boa has flown in and launched 4 strike craft on plently of people.
This could let them remove the save system like in spore and just have it so you can't die and a player can't really use save games to cheat for some missions.
They could just remove the Ship all together and just put you on a bunker on a planet that your using a special facility to remotely control drones and ships everywhere. A base witha 1.23 gigaplex of transmitting power to your drones and you just appear as a hologram on your capital ships.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
softweir
 
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 4337 on topic
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 00:20 Post subject: |
|
|
| Xyberviri wrote: |
| Isn't the VR Room what you use to remotely control drones and ships and when they blow up you go back to the VR Room. |
For VR room read VR headset which drops down from the ceiling.
_________________
My new fave game (while waiting for Rebirth) - Kerbal Space Program |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
diddltoutmimi
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 00:22 Post subject: |
|
|
Hello there,
I'm so sad to learn that X-Rebirth will not allow the player to buy and fly other ship (don't care at all about drones). It was exactly why I loved so much the X2 to X3TC games.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Funjifore
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 8 on topic
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 00:23 Post subject: |
|
|
| ZX9000 wrote: |
| Bill Bones wrote: |
Well, let's say that all you got is a cruiser class ship and the finals boss is a Battleship class. In EVE, you are dead meat in a matter of seconds, but here you are the Hero so your ship must be able to take on that enemy. |
Really? A cruiser can't beat a battleship boss? (and not only a cruiser, but a modular cruiser, which sounds like a strategic cruiser to me).
I'd be careful about accepting EVE-references from Bill Bones, folks
On topic: what with drones to get your dogfight jollies, I don't think it's a crisis not being able to manually steer capital ships. Physics realism aside (because I'm not qualified), capital ships have crews doing all the stuff that needs doing. The captain sits in his chair saying "engage". Might as well say it in the chair of his comfy flagship. |
I can verify that what Bill Bones said is NOT true. I've played Eve since 03. It's actually possible to kill battleships with t2 frigates 
I was not a huge fan of X3TC (my first and only X game). I only bought it because I was lonely for Eve (couldn't pay the subscription) and I couldn't install any of my old space games .
X Rebirth sounds like oodles of fun, however.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
caleb
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 342 on topic
Location: Costa Rica
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 00:29 Post subject: |
|
|
| Ulfarus wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I have to disagree there... X is not just primarily a space flight simulator game. That's just one of the components. It is an economics simulator, logistics, warfare, fleet command, and many other things. |
I am sorry but X is only better than Eve as a flight sim, which is why I play it. I applaud the planned improvements but some of them such as targetable sub systems are not a new idea they are something that has been done going all the way back to the classic x-wing games.
As an economics simulator you have no chance against Eve, the commodities, logistics market is so complex in Eve because it is real people participating. It is so complex that it mimics real life stock market trading. X's supply and demand model is basic, in my opinion missions could do a lot to make this better.
The warfare, fleet command aspect in vanilla incarnations of X have been mediocre, it is only through the efforts of some very talented modders that the universe has come alive.
As for competing with Eve again you are on a hiding to nothing because until we get human level AI, real players beat this every time. The one thing in this respect that X has over Eve is that it is single player and the amount of effort you have to put in is much less.
Certainly these areas can be improved but don't throw out the main reason a lot of people play X, it isn't EVE and shouldn't be.
If they want the strategic game play give people control of capital ships but give them the options to truly command that ship. The UI for this should be different than for a fighter or freighter. You are looking at having a more RTS style interface, be it a command centre in your flagship or whatever.
Some of these things have started to be implemented by egosoft and modders but need further work. Things like :
Turret target priorities.
Proper formations so ships stay in formation.
Assigning orders easily and quickly to fleet ships.
designating ships to wings, squadrons etc
Outfitting.
In essence you are almost talking two games.
Some one mentioned mass effect, a game I loved except for the running around the damn ship it was irritating and a waste of time. |
I actually wasn't trying to compare X to EVE. If that is what my post sounded like, then my apologies. I'm not trying to convince anyone to play X over EVE either. EVE is a great game, and ultimately, it's everyone's choice what they play.
I'm just saying that there is more to X than a flight simulator. And I believe Egosoft is trying to develop those others a lot more with rebirth, without sacrificing the flight simulator part either. We'll still be able to directly take control of ships and fight to out hearts desire, and we will have more options, like sub-system targeting and all that nice stuff. I know that those features are not new in space games, but they are certainly new in X games.
In the end, I still think we have to wait and see what Egosoft is planning. We have very little information at this time to make a good decision.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bill67
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 117 on topic
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 01:15 Post subject: |
|
|
Are people actually reading the stickies?
I see some say no dog fighting? Really? With the drones, playership you can manually fly these.
That NPC's do all the work now... It clearly states you can use them to handle what you don't want do but I am guessing can be disabled, by this I mean on playership,factories.
You can't pilot capitol ships but you can control them. To me this works better because now you can set strategies rather than worrying about piloting.
Yeah we lose the ability to pilot every ship, but this is the start of a new era, maybe with time we will have this back with fully modelled ships.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
bark00000
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 2 on topic
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 06:00 Post subject: |
|
|
| Bill67 wrote: |
| Are people actually reading the stickies? |
I really don't think they are...
that or they are reading them with an idea already in their head and picking and choosing single words and blowing them up to make their idea of the game seem correct.
namely the word "drone". nobody really knows what "drones" refer to. if they are just like they were in previous games or if they are referring to actual fighters.
also it DOES say in the sticky that we will be able to own and operate cap ships, as well as land on them.
what many are getting out of this it that we will just sit there while the AI does all the work. what i am hoping this actually means is we will be taking more of a captains chair approach. this would also add to realism, since it does not make sense to have a single pilot fly such a large ship
I am really torn on this issue. I trust egosoft to provide quality, so i am willing to wait and see exactly what they give us before making a decision.
think about how different XBTF is from TC. if i was afraid of change, i would not be playing TC would i?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hubert99
Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 287 on topic
Location: CEO's Wellspring
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 09:18 Post subject: |
|
|
| Gazz wrote: |
| Musicker wrote: |
| Sure, they're limiting us to a single player ship, but they're expanding other aspects. You couldn't walk around the ship you were flying in previous games.. that alone sounds like a super cool feature to me. |
Sounds like a super useless feature to me. Honestly... |
I can see how your code orineted intellect shies from such awesome feature. This does not mean it's a bad feature.
PS. I don't mind a bit of a Mass Effect touch, perhaps without the materialist occultism. ... truth is, there is no reason the really good and outstanding achievments of game features should not become applied ... after all this is how the industry develops. You take a great feature and you evolve it one step further.
The game direly needed the artistic element and a personal touch, so this is a good choice, imo.
_________________
Thereshallbewings |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tragos
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 454 on topic
Location: Banania
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 10:01 Post subject: |
|
|
I did read up to "single ship" thing , i am no longer interested in the game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Playbahnosh
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 537 on topic
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 11:15 Post subject: |
|
|
| Tragos wrote: |
| I did read up to "single ship" thing , i am no longer interested in the game. |
See, that's exactly the problem with most of the whiners here. They just don't care to get all the available information on the subject, they just jump to conclusions on the slightest provocation. In fact, what most of them are whining about is not even true or cannot be known for certain as of yet.
But don't let me keep you. If you guys cannot be arsed to look into what you are raving against before posting, we don't need you around here. Go and rage-quit.
I will buy the everloving shit outta X:Rebirth, and I'm going to have so much fun with it, it'd be cryin'. You can just go back to EVE or under whatever rock you crawled out from...
_________________
___________________________________
   |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gazz
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 12152 on topic
Location: Bavaria
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 11:35 Post subject: |
|
|
| Playbahnosh wrote: |
| See, that's exactly the problem with most of the whiners here. They just don't care to get all the available information on the subject, they just jump to conclusions on the slightest provocation. |
Well, the fanboys aren't any less determined, dontcha think? =P
Piloting anything from a fighter up to capital ships makes up a large part of the charm of the X series.
You can stay in a fighter for your entire game-life, drive an unarmed transport ship to new ports of call, or fly a battle carrier with a cruiser escort and a scout screen of M5.
The game does not dictate the way you are supposed to play. You are allowed.
That is what XRB simply takes away from the series - from anything we've seen so far.
There you can supposedly be a passenger in a capital ship but have no better control over it than from half a sector away.
The "new way is okay" crowd makes the same mistake they are blaming the "want capital ships" crowd for.
They assume that XRB will work like XR or XTC. That the control mechanisms will work the same way and therefore some ways of control will be unfun to them.
We haven't even heard a peep about rather specific items like that.
_________________
My complete script download page. . . . . . Xai-Corp MSCI List is scripter's friend. I AM THE LAW!
Dogs and colour blindness explained: People with green eyes can't see dogs. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scoob
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 1980 on topic
Location: Oxford, UK
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 11:55 Post subject: |
|
|
Until we get a detailed description of how the new "ordering stuff about" mechanic works then we can't really say if it's good or bad.
IF all we had was the current TC mechanic then the answer is "bad"...but let's face it, that interface will have been improved quite significantly don't you think?
Scoob.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Playbahnosh
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 537 on topic
|
| Posted: Mon, 3. Oct 11, 11:57 Post subject: |
|
|
| Gazz wrote: |
| Playbahnosh wrote: |
| See, that's exactly the problem with most of the whiners here. They just don't care to get all the available information on the subject, they just jump to conclusions on the slightest provocation. |
Well, the fanboys aren't any less determined, dontcha think? =P
Piloting anything from a fighter up to capital ships makes up a large part of the charm of the X series.
You can stay in a fighter for your entire game-life, drive an unarmed transport ship to new ports of call, or fly a battle carrier with a cruiser escort and a scout screen of M5.
The game does not dictate the way you are supposed to play. You are allowed.
That is what XRB simply takes away from the series - from anything we've seen so far.
There you can supposedly be a passenger in a capital ship but have no better control over it than from half a sector away.
The "new way is okay" crowd makes the same mistake they are blaming the "want capital ships" crowd for.
They assume that XRB will work like XR or XTC. That the control mechanisms will work the same way and therefore some ways of control will be unfun to them.
We haven't even heard a peep about rather specific items like that. |
Yes, you are right. I admit I was a little over-enthusiastic there. But at least I read the stickies, the newsletters and forum threads, I did not just read one single sentence and passed judgement...
Indeed, we have way less information that would allow us determine things like that. Without getting a hands-on try or at least seeing a gameplay video, no one of us can tell if it would be fun/usable/whatever or not. I reserve my judgement until after I had a chance to play the real thing, and I advise the same to others. Or at least read about the subject before coming here and spewing hate.
_________________
___________________________________
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Search