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karoliussen
  
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 258 on topic
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 Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:19 Post subject: Please, do complex. PC-complex. |
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Hi,
I'm going to follow the new series with an interested eye..
But, please DON'T do an effort to make this game a console one. I know you did try to make X3 work with them, but wisely, you did not bark up that tree.
Current, console games are a hold-up for PC games. Consoles will always stay "stuck" with their original technology specs at the design days for several years, and not only that, they are barely suitable for no-brain-action games, because of their basic inferior controls.
If the new X-series goes "hardcore"-console, it will be "evolved" into a way dumbed down type of X-game, a game I most likely will never purchase.
Best!
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Seon
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 42 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:21 Post subject: |
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A huge part of the X games is the modding. I doubt they would go down that route just for that fact.
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imperium3
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 1160 on topic
Location: Coventry
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:28 Post subject: |
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| Seon wrote: |
| A huge part of the X games is the modding. I doubt they would go down that route just for that fact. |
I don't know, I think Egosoft would eventually like to do something for consoles, simply because there is an awful lot of money in that area. However I think they're wise enough to know that the time just isn't right for them.
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Seon
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 42 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:40 Post subject: |
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If they do decide on a console port of XR, they should do it after the main game gets released and maybe patched up a bit and let modders have their way with the game for awhile. Then release the console version with some of the top mods included. Like the bonus packs on the PC. Then maybe if (or should I say when) Xtended comes out for rebirth, offer it up as DLC. Not the best system in the world, but it could work.
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Chris0132
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:46 Post subject: |
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'PC-complex' is just an excuse for laziness.
Like they said in the interview, complexity is good, complicated interface is not. If you can't make it work on a controller, your interface is unneccesarily complicated and needs work.
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Seon
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 42 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:50 Post subject: |
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| Chris0132 wrote: |
'PC-complex' is just an excuse for laziness.
Like they said in the interview, complexity is good, complicated interface is not. If you can't make it work on a controller, your interface is unneccesarily complicated and needs work. |
Sometimes games just don't work well on the consoles like they do on the PC. No matter how the interface is.
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corhen
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 335 on topic
Location: Angle 225.06, Distance: 7,295.43
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:52 Post subject: |
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DONT do PC complex just to be complicated, DO what they are saying.. "complex, not complicated"
A lot of PC complex games are mearly a bad interface slapped on an OK game.. (a good example might be X3:R, which has an AWFUL UI)
i am not worried about the lack of complexity in X:R, they seem to have made a point telling anyone that the game is going to be more complex than X3TC, but simply have a better interface to make it easier to do more complex stuff (look at the station complexes they are talking about!)
_________________
| Jovianmoon wrote: |
| apricotslice wrote: |
| ...auto-pillok... |
Are we ready to collide with that asteroid?
Yes sir! Engaging auto-pillock! |
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Shimrod
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 584 on topic
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 01:59 Post subject: |
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I suspect it's not a v1 priority however in terms of the interface I'd like to see a joystick hat menu, time spent on making the game usable with a joystick without resorting to keyboard so much.
Perhaps give a test engineer a bunch of joysticks and let them generate usability enhancements.
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Ludicer
Joined: 29 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 02:10 Post subject: |
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| Chris0132 wrote: |
'PC-complex' is just an excuse for laziness.
Like they said in the interview, complexity is good, complicated interface is not. If you can't make it work on a controller, your interface is unneccesarily complicated and needs work. |
I can't name a single console game with such depth. But that can really be my lack of knowledge  . The controller, as logic really lacks the ability to integrate with any kind of interface a complex game needs. At best, they can support a really organized menu. But still, these kinds of games will have to integrate to consoles unless the entire console system changes.
Ofcourse, the move or kinect seem to be the first step of a much more innovative interface but there still seems to be time for such radical changes.
Well, X games have never been complex for the sake of being complicated. But it was unevitably the other way around.
I also fear that some level of complexity will be sacrificed for the sake of accessibility.
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karoliussen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 258 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 02:10 Post subject: |
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Well,
as they said in their introduction, complex, but not COMPLICATED.
It's a difference. It means things like a sandbox environment, depth and freedom. As of "complicated", it probably refers to the somewhat bad user interface, that I CAN agree upon. But that it's utterly a PC-releated concept/problem, is a faulty statement in my mind, these things could be improved, definitely.
No single player game in this genre, has *ever* to this date, made me play it so much over a long time.
For me ,the storylines were totally irrelevant. I did finish them though. The game complexity (where you actually need to use your brain), were the things that did expand the lifetime of the game for me.
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DeepFried
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Posts: 19 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 02:59 Post subject: |
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| Chris0132 wrote: |
'PC-complex' is just an excuse for laziness.
Like they said in the interview, complexity is good, complicated interface is not. If you can't make it work on a controller, your interface is unneccesarily complicated and needs work. |
Great, i'll tell the guys at boeing that their cockpit controls are unneccesarily complicated and need work. Thank god you're here Chris to reveal to us this divine truth that no interface need ever be more complicated than an xbox controller. Well at least now we know.
/sarcasm
Ok so admittedly you do have to ask just how complicated does the interface for a computer game need to be? but when the game in question trades off its complexity then that question needs to be looked at in a different light.
To control complicated systems in detail you need complicated controls, if the very point of the game is complicated systems then by extension complicated controls are not only necessary but in fact desireable.
I for one do not want to take a trip in a 747 where the pilot is limited to using an xbox controller, similarly I dont want to play an X game where i'm limited to an xbox controller. Some things just shouldn't be simplified.
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madcow
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 04:19 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 'PC-complex' is just an excuse for laziness |
I'm going to disagree with you here, and I feel you're overfocusing on the word "complex". In fact, I suspect the main problem is that the words should be "deep" and "hard to use", instead of "complex" and "complicated". A game can be deep yet simple to use, or it can be simple, yet hard to use.
My main worry, and I suspect karoliussen's as well, is the developmental tendencies the past 5+ years, where the consoles have, to an increasing amount, taken over both the market shares and the usability design choices of games. I've grown weary of game after game after game being designed for the consoles first and foremost, and lazily ported back to the PC. The end result has been driving games where physics are laughably awful, if not non-existant, FPS games with autoaim, 1 ammo type, snapping to structures, no lean, no level design breadth at all, RPG games which no longer are proper RPG games, flight sims which aren't simulating anything, and just ****** games in general because during game design they're thinking "deep game", and what they're mentally translating that to is "it's harder". In the process they're making a game that's shallower, yet harder to use. I suspect young'uns who have used nothing but a gamepad will disagree with me, but I'm reaching for the nitroglycerin tablets every time I snap to a structure (be it a pillar or a box or whatever) or the autoaim kicks in, because it seriously aggravates me.
If what egosoft are looking at is trying to go through the UI and making it more logical and optimizing the workflow compared to before, then that's fine. That has a chance of being an improvement of the current game. If, however, by "making the UI simpler" they mean they're looking to rework it into something that'll work on a gamepad, then chances are it'll be the first egosoft game I will not be buying.
I hope it's the former, I've already sworn off of driving games (I'm still driving Nascar Racing 2003, Live for Speed, Richard Burns Rally and Grand Prix Legends, for crying out loud. They haven't been beaten yet) and FPS games (notable exceptions are potentially RAGE and Serious Sam 3, if they're duffs as well I'm officially done with FPSes) because they just can't get the idea that deep games doesn't have to be complex into their head, and young people keep reinforcing that line of thought.
Last edited by madcow on Sun, 2. Oct 11, 05:10; edited 1 time in total |
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Shootist
Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 844 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 04:59 Post subject: |
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| Chris0132 wrote: |
'PC-complex' is just an excuse for laziness.
Like they said in the interview, complexity is good, complicated interface is not. If you can't make it work on a controller, your interface is unneccesarily complicated and needs work. |
An overly broad statement that is plainly wrong.
The flexibility of mouse/keyboard/joystick, not to mention, not needing the game to aim my shots for me (due to low accuracy/resolution of console game interface), along with 4 to 8 times the processing power . . . No. Consoles are good for beer and pretzel gaming, and team sports, but they remain functionally limited.
God, I'd Hail a return to the days of cardboard Keyboard Overlays and Posters showing the insanely complicated Interface Command Structure. That, once memorized allowed you to issue any command within seconds. Without have to point to some silly, oversized, iconized, hot spot on the screen. Or spin a damn bloody wheel.
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Last edited by Shootist on Sun, 2. Oct 11, 05:14; edited 1 time in total |
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softweir
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 4337 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 2. Oct 11, 05:10 Post subject: |
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Oh yes. Wheels. Fine for conversation trees, but for menu systems...
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robalexhall
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 351 on topic
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