Which M7 ship?

DrDress · Post by **DrDress** » Thu, 5. May 11, 10:13

I'm buying my first M7 ship, and I think I've narrowed it down to either a Thresher or Tiger. The tiger is generally a little better allround, but the Thresher can use PPC. I want weapons with no ammo or missles, an no collateral damage. It's hard when you aven't tried any of these weapons in pracsis. Maybe I should choose an intirely different ship.
I would love to have some input fromexperienced players?

Ripskar · Post by **Ripskar** » Thu, 5. May 11, 10:47

Do you have access to Yaki weapon factories?
The PPCs are easier to source, but I've seen the the Thresher get into trouble with fighters if it's set up for anti-cap work.
The Panther has a similar stat-line to the Tiger and a huge hangar.

Progress-M · Post by **Progress-M** » Thu, 5. May 11, 11:02

One good idea is to make a google search on forum.egosoft.com/ for "best M7" or "M7 comparison" or something...there's endless discussions of good and bad points.

Many like the Panther because it's like a mini-carrier with plenty of firepower and some are quite fond of the Shrike, because while being slow and ugly, it packs a punch and has a decent hangar for the player's fighter-class ships too...

breytac · Post by **breytac** » Thu, 5. May 11, 11:21

There's something else you could try

Download the cheat script. Use that to spawn an M7 of any race and make it yours. Fly it around for a while. Rinse and repeat until you find an M7 that fits the task you like

Not sure if the cheat script marks your game as modified, so test it first. I had several scripts already installed when I found out about it.

Glaceious · Post by **Glaceious** » Thu, 5. May 11, 12:23

Go and capture a Paranid Agamemnon. Put IBL's in the front turret, flack in the others, and Concussion for the main cannons and have fun

THE_TrashMan · Post by **THE_TrashMan** » Thu, 5. May 11, 12:38

Personally I like the Shrike, but I admit I never tried out the Panther.

I rerely have excellent realtions with the Split.

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Thu, 5. May 11, 13:10

Being on the outs with the Split is no reason not to try the Tiger. Boarding Pods AWAY!!

As for your ammo concerns, remember that while the Gauss Cannon uses ammo, it has such a slow rate of fire, that 1 crate of ammo, which is two hundred rounds, can last a LONG time. 10 crates is days worth of ammo.

Alternately, there are many people who have good experiences using the Panther as a conventional frigate. Lots of firepower, equal speed to the Tiger, as well as roughly equivalent shielding.

deca.death · Post by **deca.death** » Thu, 5. May 11, 13:47

Forget those two. Tiger is great but extremely hard to equip, tresher is a glass canon, with not enough energy for sustained combat. I would recommend shirke, as great all around platform and mini carrier.

DrDress · Post by **DrDress** » Thu, 5. May 11, 14:26

What's the verdict on PALC? On paper it seems extremly potent.

Deadbeat_Spinn · Post by **Deadbeat_Spinn** » Thu, 5. May 11, 14:36

DrDress wrote:What's the verdict on PALC? On paper it seems extremly potent.

Due to there only being two of them (unless you got them prior to 1.4) they're an instant hit weapon like Kyons or LT weapons, probably best suited for anti fighter duties.

However, in mass, they can prove effective against capitals.

StarSword · Post by **StarSword** » Thu, 5. May 11, 17:00

breytac wrote:There's something else you could try

Download the cheat script. Use that to spawn an M7 of any race and make it yours. Fly it around for a while. Rinse and repeat until you find an M7 that fits the task you like

Not sure if the cheat script marks your game as modified, so test it first. I had several scripts already installed when I found out about it.

It'll mark it as modified. My advice? Use the plugin and savegame managers, and make a new savegame for testing scripts.

My advice as far as M7? Panther. In combat it is virtually identical to the Tiger (except that its front battery is turreted rather than fixed, meaning you have less control over its firing), but has the added bonus of being able to carry 32 fighters (more than any other M7, and even outstrips a couple of the M1s).

@deca.death: How is the Tiger hard to equip? You just have to hack the LMS Legacy IBL forge and set up an equipment dock or the Hub to store the IBLs. You'll have space fuel plexes to feed it anyway if you befriend the pirates.

Or alternatively, farm the hell out of pirate and Yaki capital ships.

Bill Huntington · Post by **Bill Huntington** » Thu, 5. May 11, 17:41

DrDress, all the M7s listed above are fine ships. Some of your decision depends on what you want to use it for.

The Panther is a good all-rounder, as is the Shrike.

But for straight out combat, the Tiger is the king. Its main battery is open, so you can fly and make combat decisions at the same time. The speed of the Tiger is 121, the fastest M7.

The Panther has similiar stats, and a hangar bay. So why not? You have to jump into a turret to use and adjust your fire power. And its front turret only has 6 weapons, not 8 like the Tiger. If you need a flagship and mini-carrier and don't plan to fight much, it's a good choice.

As noted above, the Thresher can run out of power in a fight. I've watched, several times, a Thresher and a Q. The Thresher has the Q on the ropes, almost finished ... but can't finish, and then it's destroyed by the Q. I use mine to guard a complex. It does well against M3s.

IBLs are a project, yes. But it is a worthy one. Feed the Loom complex, and you will get some soon enough. The Yaki forges are good too, but you have to be okay with the Yaki. Use CIG until the IBLs are ready. You can use the Tiger and IBLs for a very powerful overcharged blast, which has some advantages.

I hope this helps.

brattbags01 · Post by **brattbags01** » Thu, 5. May 11, 18:23

Bill Huntington wrote:DrDress, all the M7s listed above are fine ships. Some of your decision depends on what you want to use it for.

The Panther is a good all-rounder, as is the Shrike.

But for straight out combat, the Tiger is the king. Its main battery is open, so you can fly and make combat decisions at the same time. The speed of the Tiger is 121, the fastest M7.

The Panther has similiar stats, and a hangar bay. So why not? You have to jump into a turret to use and adjust your fire power. And its front turret only has 6 weapons, not 8 like the Tiger. If you need a flagship and mini-carrier and don't plan to fight much, it's a good choice.

As noted above, the Thresher can run out of power in a fight. I've watched, several times, a Thresher and a Q. The Thresher has the Q on the ropes, almost finished ... but can't finish, and then it's destroyed by the Q. I use mine to guard a complex. It does well against M3s.

IBLs are a project, yes. But it is a worthy one. Feed the Loom complex, and you will get some soon enough. The Yaki forges are good too, but you have to be okay with the Yaki. Use CIG until the IBLs are ready. You can use the Tiger and IBLs for a very powerful overcharged blast, which has some advantages.

I hope this helps.

Agree with all that's said above

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Thu, 5. May 11, 20:28

The thing about the Thresher is two fold. First, it's very much a focus forward ship. On paper or OOS, the Thresher should be able to handily vaporize a Carrack without even getting scratched. In practice though that's not the case, particularly should the Carrack come on it from behind. I saw a fully armed and shielded Thresher get killed by a definitely undershielded, and under armed Carrack, because the Carrack caught it from behind.

The other problem is that the AI isn't very good at using it, mainly because it's not capable of charging the guns like the player is. That make quite the difference.9

kurush · Post by **kurush** » Thu, 5. May 11, 20:33

deca.death wrote:Forget those two. Tiger is great but extremely hard to equip, tresher is a glass canon, with not enough energy for sustained combat. I would recommend shirke, as great all around platform and mini carrier.

I'm flying a shrike now on my Unholy Traitor start (because split rep needs fixing) and I would trade it for a Panter any time. It is still a decent piece of hardware though. Panther and Shrike are the only two all-rounders between M7.
Thresher - a glass cannon as it was mentioned. It is also too big to dodge.
Tiger - comparable to Panther but no hangar.
Agamemnon - I found it to be good only for kamikaze runs against capital ships, PSG blazing.
Argon M7 sucks. I wish they have that OTAS M7 available in vanilla - it was pretty sleek.
I could be a bit biased because I usually fly M7 in the external view mode so that I can dodge those PPC rounds easier. Panther can still use its front turret in this mode while others will lose any targeting support for it.

deca.death · Post by **deca.death** » Thu, 5. May 11, 20:45

StarSword wrote: @deca.death: How is the Tiger hard to equip? You just have to hack the LMS Legacy IBL forge and set up an equipment dock or the Hub to store the IBLs. You'll have space fuel plexes to feed it anyway if you befriend the pirates.

I believe you just answered you own question. Hacking, supplying, waiting for weeks of real time to equip single ship... or just buy shirke and equip it in minutes. Tiger is not that much better, it's just not worth the effort, especially in early game phases when your resources are limited. Tiger was my first M7, now i fly in shirke. They are both great ships, i wouldn't singled out any as much better.

dalin80 · Post by **dalin80** » Thu, 5. May 11, 20:50

Its very odd that the shrike and tiger have the same shielding when the parent races have completely different designs ethos regarding shielding.

deca.death · Post by **deca.death** » Thu, 5. May 11, 20:51

kurush wrote: Agamemnon - I found it to be good only for kamikaze runs against capital ships, PSG blazing.

Aggy is extremely powerful and versatile platform. In front mine has 4 IBLs, 4 PSGs and 4 ISRs. Sniping, precision strikes and mass destruction behind 6 GJs of shielding, you have it all.

eldyranx3 · Post by **eldyranx3** » Thu, 5. May 11, 20:53

Its also very easy to swing that overgrown lawn dart around and put a huge dent into those over sized engines. For versatility I also vote Shrike or Panther. Otherwise I really enjoyed the Aegir.

kurush · Post by **kurush** » Thu, 5. May 11, 23:01

deca.death wrote: Aggy is extremely powerful and versatile platform.

As I said, I didn't like it much in the role of all-rounder or your flagman ship. It is interesting to fight in in some situations such as raids in the Xenon sectors. Its biggest problem is PSG which is a synonym for "friendly fire"

And without PSG you get a useless main battery that can't even mount IBL.

eldyranx3 wrote:Otherwise I really enjoyed the Aegir.

That one would be nice. Doesn't it have the highest speed in M7 class in vanilla? It is a big pain to capture though without ruining your terran rep. I haven't seen it w/o a huge escort. Definitely, not the 1-st M7 you would own