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Planning my fleet for race wars
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kilo69





Joined: 16 Feb 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 16:22    Post subject: Planning my fleet for race wars Reply with quote Print

So now that I have my HQ and have greatly reduced the need for access to race shipyards it's time for some payback.

I've been planning my fleet based on the slowest ship in the convoy. That ship will be my Falcon Sentinel heavy fighters (Loaded with EBC and wasps). Hence none of the other ships in this fleet can have a max speed lower than 108m/s and preferably faster so they can put distance between themselves and the fighter group in case I need to RSLG. Also Cap ships for ease of resupply must have hangers also this helps pick up any fighters that may have lost their carrier in battle.

The only ship I'm willing to make that exception is of course the M2's... since for the most part they are going to be dealing with the heavy ships and will have jumpdrives for sure to escape should the need arise.

After much work in the awesome stat excel sheet I've narrowed my choices to the following.

M2
# 1 Boreas (Duh)
# 2 Osaka
# 3 Tyr (If I can cap one, I expect this will start my first race war haha)

M1
Only one option... The Raptor... due to the ability to dock from the rear and speed

M7
#1 Panther
#2 Deimos
#3 Girffon
#4 Astraeus Hauler (If it's even in the game???)

M6 (Need help list is long)
Springblossom
Hyperion Vanguard
Centaur Heavy Prot.
Skiron
Hydra Heavy
Katana
Vidar
PX
Washi Hauler
Centaur Heavy
Vali

I'm leaning towards, Springblossom, Hyperion and HCP... but any suggestions on those others would be welcome (pros or cons)

M8 (I use MARS so M8's are a bit nerfed)
Viper (For speed)
Hades
Claymore (If I can get a source of missiles)

M3
Falcon Sentinel (Heavy Fighter)
Spitfyre (Heavy Interceptor)
Medusa Prototype (Typhoon missile boat)
Blastclaw Prototype (Logistics)
Falcon Hauler (Logistics)

For a General purpose fighter I'm trying to decide between these
Perseus Advanced
Venti
Cutlass
Fenrir (If I can get one)

M4
Solano (Interceptor)

M5
Kestrel (Scout/interceptor)

TL
Elephant for fleet supplies
Atmo Lifter for factory work/warehousing at HQ/HUB/EQ

TM
Chokaro (For UT/ST and pick up of lost fighters)

TP
Angel

TS
Mistral (For fleet supply/CAG)
Mistral SF (For CLS use)

So I'm really looking for input on M6 choice and M3 general fighter choice. But if you have any comments on my other choices I'd love to hear it too. I'm a bit skeptical of using terran ships are they seem harder to equip and feed missiles so I may lean more towards commonwealth if I find that is the case.

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kilo69





Joined: 16 Feb 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 16:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

After reviewing HQ prod costs the Advanced Perseus and spring blossom are the cheapest options.

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ObadiahtheSlim



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PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 16:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

You may want to have some Shrikes to escort your Destroyers. Good shields and can mount Gauss Cannons for some extra bite. It has cargo bays to hold extra supplies for your M2s. It is however a bit slow at 96 m/s. Otherwise the Panther would be a good choice for M7 duty. Maybe with Griffon loaded with flaks for support.

As for your M2s, I would skip the Osaka and Tyr and use only the Boreas. Terran guns do not do good IS damage. Boreas, however, has great in sector capabilities and if you load the back turret with PPC it is a monster in OOS.

If you are on good terms with the Argon, Nova Raider/Vanguard is a great M3 fighter you can buy in bulk for cheap. If cost isn't an issue, I'd probably say Eclipse for it's 1x200MJ shield. I'd shy away from Falcon Sentinel because it has a crap generator. Then again if you want PBEs and Typhoon missiles Medusa Prototype is where it's at. For an M3 logistics work, don't rule out the Enhanced Kea. It has best in class cargo capacity.

For M6s, I don't use Springblossom at all so I have not comment. HCP only has the advantage of mounting Ion-Ds in the mains and PRGs in the turrets. Otherwise the Hyperion out preforms it in nearly every aspect.

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Catra





Joined: 12 Oct 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 17:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

A fully loaded tyr / osaka can one volley other vessels....I'd go for the tyr cause of the cool factor Cool

For M3: I'd go for the the perseus advanced. 4 x 25 and 209 m/s is sweet.
For M6: really depends. The springblossom if you're going to encounter heavy fighter resistance, and the vali if you're going up against corvettes and up.

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kilo69





Joined: 16 Feb 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 18:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ObadiahtheSlim wrote:
You may want to have some Shrikes to escort your Destroyers. Good shields and can mount Gauss Cannons for some extra bite. It has cargo bays to hold extra supplies for your M2s. It is however a bit slow at 96 m/s. Otherwise the Panther would be a good choice for M7 duty. Maybe with Griffon loaded with flaks for support.

As for your M2s, I would skip the Osaka and Tyr and use only the Boreas. Terran guns do not do good IS damage. Boreas, however, has great in sector capabilities and if you load the back turret with PPC it is a monster in OOS.

If you are on good terms with the Argon, Nova Raider/Vanguard is a great M3 fighter you can buy in bulk for cheap. If cost isn't an issue, I'd probably say Eclipse for it's 1x200MJ shield. I'd shy away from Falcon Sentinel because it has a crap generator. Then again if you want PBEs and Typhoon missiles Medusa Prototype is where it's at. For an M3 logistics work, don't rule out the Enhanced Kea. It has best in class cargo capacity.

For M6s, I don't use Springblossom at all so I have not comment. HCP only has the advantage of mounting Ion-Ds in the mains and PRGs in the turrets. Otherwise the Hyperion out preforms it in nearly every aspect.


Yeah I think the Boreas will be the back bone of the M2 fleet... The Tyr/Osaka will be more for OOS defense or maybe a personal ship when I feel like it.

The Falcon was going to use Energy bolt chaingun as a primary weapon to remove the generator as an issue. I just want 2x200mj shields if my fighters are in close with the FAA weilding M7's, M2's.

I agree that PBE+typhoon's will be quite the combo Smile

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kilo69





Joined: 16 Feb 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 18:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Catra wrote:
A fully loaded tyr / osaka can one volley other vessels....I'd go for the tyr cause of the cool factor Cool

For M3: I'd go for the the perseus advanced. 4 x 25 and 209 m/s is sweet.
For M6: really depends. The springblossom if you're going to encounter heavy fighter resistance, and the vali if you're going up against corvettes and up.


Agreed on the Perseus advanced... it edges out the other choices and is fairly cheap to build so I won't feel to bad using them as fodder!

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Master of the Blade





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PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 18:37    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

If you're willing to sacrifice many top-level marines, there is one destroyer that tops even the Tyr and Boreas as a fleet battleship: The Xenon K.

Not because of its stats, but because it takes a tiny fraction of the time to construct one compared to any other destroyer - it's also far cheaper. And where battleships are concerned, the more the merrier if you'll pardon the cliché.


M3 - of those you state, the Falcon Sentinel's massive endurance means it can draw fire away from enemies for longer to allow your big guns to fire without retaliation. Blastclaw proto and FH are nice medium missile boats and ordnance ferries, but are slightly limited in some ways (blastclaw has bad weapons, FH has a pathetic lasergen which can be bypassed with EBCs.)

M6 - PX or Hyp. If you want to build at a reasonable rate, the PX has a monstrous laser generator compared to the other standard M6+es and good basic stats. It has great turret coverage and weapon compatibility too.
You may want to consider the Dragon too - for its low cost and good speed.
Hyperion speaks for itself. Rolling Eyes Very expensive and takes a long time to make though.
I would advise against the HCP - its small cargo means it's a nightmare to resupply in numbers.


M7 - If you go for Panther there's no point having Raptors. The Panther is so overpowered it's unreal. Otherwise, the Deimos is a great damage sponge but rather neutered without using PSGs (which you won't in a fleet unless you want to lose your fighters) and the Griffon is one of the best bugsplatters in the game. It's like an M6 with ~seven times the shielding and flak. Astraeus is like a pumped up Cerberus, but isn't available in Vanilla.

M8 - Claymore if you can get the thousands of Phantom missiles a wing of them'll eat. By far the most powerful M8.
Otherwise, Hades for general balance and sexiness or Peregrine for resilience against fighters and good capacity for missiles/jump energy.


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kilo69





Joined: 16 Feb 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 29. Mar 11, 18:54    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Good point about the Panther and Raptor filling the same roles more or less.

I was thinking the larger cargo in the Raptor would help in EBC ammo and missiles. but when I look at it there is not much difference between 32 and 65 ships when it really comes down to the cargo space left per fighter.

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galaxy_quest





Joined: 27 Feb 2011



PostPosted: Thu, 31. Mar 11, 13:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Catra wrote:
A fully loaded tyr / osaka can one volley other vessels....I'd go for the tyr cause of the cool factor Cool


Sadly, Tyr has rather pathetic cargo space.

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Triaxx2





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PostPosted: Thu, 31. Mar 11, 17:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The advantage to the Panther is speed, and mounting, over the Raptor's equally capricious cargo hold. Yet, with one more fighter over two Panthers, the Raptor can't make up for twice the firepower because of the double batteries of the twinned Panthers.

That said, there's something about watching the Raptor disgorge 65 fighters that's simply awe inspiring. Of course it won't help impress the AI, but that's beside my point.

They also have the same shielding individually that a single Raptor has, and two targets mean that they're receiving half the firepower. Not to mention that they can more easily surround a target and pound it into dust than a single Raptor. On the other hand, they don't mount Gauss Cannons. Not that the Raptor should be in knife range with other capitals, but those sure give it punch against Corvettes without bothering the weapon generators.

Heck GC's even give the TLS anti-cap punch.

I think I've wandered off topic.

---

M2: I have to say that for M2's, I prefer the Python. Many people will argue against it for lack of Flak. I say that if my Destroyer is trying to deal with fighters with FAA, I have provided insufficient fighter cover. Plus the Python is fast enough to close range ahead of other Destroyers.

M1: The Raptor is great. I use them as Fleet centerpieces. That said, for all the reasons above, they shouldn't be the only fighter carrier you bring. I also have each of the Raptors followed by two Panthers. That brings the number of fighters to 138. That's a lot of fighter cover.

M7: None of these. The Panther is capable, but in the role of carrier. It can function as a regular M7, but it's best in the player hands.

Personally, I prefer the Shrike. The reasons are various, from mounting Capital destroying GC, to having superior shields, and the ability to carry fighters, but the Shrike is a monster of a ship. The only reason it doesn't make your list I suspect is it's in ability to out run the Falcon Sentinels. But considering it carries it's own fighter complement, speed shouldn't stop you.

M6: Dragons. Preferrably Heavy Dragons, but light Dragons are good too. Lots of forward firepower, and lots of good weapon choices.

PX is also a good escort ship, functioning mainly as a massive FS. I don't recommend the SB for fleet ops. It's good for a fast attack group, but not for inside a fleet.

M8: Viper, definitely, though you only need two or three of them. And only against targets you know you'll need to smash first.

M3: I recommend the Chimera as a General Purpose fighter. Combines firepower and speed, but lacks some shielding.

On the other hand, the Yaki have the amazing Tenjin. Nine guns, and the ability to mount both Mass Drivers, and PBG's.

M4: Go Asp's, mount HEPT's. Lots of stopping power. Important in an interceptor.

M5: Not really going to be good for much but scouting, but the Kessie is the best.

TL: Ryu is also a nice one, and has better weapon mounting than the Elephant.

TM: Boa is faster, and better armed, but the Chokaro is nice as a UT.

TP: The extra speed of the Scabbard, and it's ability to mount the Poltergeist outweighs the Angels XL cargo size.

TS: I'd pick the Caiman over the basic Mistral. It's a little slower, but for IS, it's a much smaller target.


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cj-spartacus



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PostPosted: Thu, 31. Mar 11, 17:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

galaxy_quest wrote:
Catra wrote:
A fully loaded tyr / osaka can one volley other vessels....I'd go for the tyr cause of the cool factor Cool


Sadly, Tyr has rather pathetic cargo space.


Yes I'd rather not choose between heavy fire power or heavy shielding. I would go with the Boreas every time.

As for the Osaka, I don't like them for IS combat as the PSP (although having a slightly higher dps) is slower and less accurate than the trusty (and much more easily obtainable) PPC. They are far better sector patrols or gate guards as they can withstand the Q's initial volley and can reply with a fatal strike.


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ObadiahtheSlim



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PostPosted: Thu, 31. Mar 11, 18:47    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

There is something to be said about 32x PPCs hiding behind 10GJ of shields in OOS combat.

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builder680





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PostPosted: Thu, 31. Mar 11, 18:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ObadiahtheSlim wrote:
There is something to be said about 32x PPCs hiding behind 10GJ of shields in OOS combat.


Yeah. Imbalanced! Especially for what I thought was supposed to be a "light" destroyer. Thank goodness for the SRM mod!

Hehehehe.

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Uncle Ruckus 42





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PostPosted: Thu, 31. Mar 11, 20:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ok I'm not at the point I can even think about race wars but as far as M3s go, have you considered the Susanowa Prototype? It can reach over 260 m/s, has 4 25 mj shields, ok cargo space, can be equipped with good weapons and missiles, and in general is the best M3 I've piloted so far, and I've tried all but the Falcon and Kea cause they are laughably slow. If I'm limited to choose only the ones you listed, then the Blastclaw prototype and Perseus advanced are my favorites.


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cj-spartacus



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PostPosted: Thu, 31. Mar 11, 20:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I thought the Susanowa P only could mount 3 shields. It is definitely a good fighter with excellent laser energy even if its cargo space is rather small. When combined with a Chokaro it would do pretty well I would imagine.


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