[Mod] Bomber and Shuttle Docking v1.1 ( 8-28-09 ) Now with greater modularity.

[Dan101]

Hi Madtrack,

Thanks for the response.

Sorry if I was a bit unclear. When I said I destroyed my ships this was not to get the docking working, this was an attempt to rectify the "corrupted" saved game issue. I had already followed the instructions on the first page for cloning ships to get the docking clamps, but it didn't work. I suspect I may have had a conflicting mod at the time which prevented this mod from working.

I am now in the situation where I can still play the game but I can't use the mod at all or I get the corrupted save game issue.

Also the "corrupted savegame" happens most of the time when you load a save that has one the the ships modified by this mod in the same sector as you, did you go to an unknown sector to save, and then loaded that particular save ? it should work

Yes, I tried this but it didn't work. When I destroyed (with the cheat scripts) my entire fleet I was in an unknown sector with 2 Terran Scabbards (not mine), but the corrupt save game issue persisted. I was in a Vidar at the time, do you think this might have been an issue?

[someone else]

I was in a Vidar at the time, do you think this might have been an issue?

yes. Alkeena added a M5 docking to the Vidar try again with you in a fighter. (in a unknown sector without any ship with you)

ATF M6 Vidar
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

[Madtrack]

Yes, I tried this but it didn't work. When I destroyed (with the cheat scripts) my entire fleet I was in an unknown sector with 2 Terran Scabbards (not mine), but the corrupt save game issue persisted. I was in a Vidar at the time, do you think this might have been an issue?

Aye that might be it, vidar is one of the modified ships (it gets an M5 docking clamp) so if you try to add the mod (or remove it for that matter) while in sector with one you'll get the corrupt savegame message

Your best bet is to try to load that savegame in a way that works (if you were trying to add, remove the mod or the other way around if you were trying to remove) and then try sending the vidar away to another sector and get in an M5 (it's an unmodified ship), scabbards shouldn't matter, but if you can find a completely empty sector so much the better (to eliminate outside parameters)

Let us know if it works

[Alkeena]

Hey, just woke up, sorry for the silence. I was up really late trying to get 1.1 out. Unfortunately I have to run now as well as RL beckons--the advice offered by both Someone Else as well as MadTrack are both spot on though.

1) I have no idea what Cycrow's mod manager does--the only supported and known functional install method is the false patch method

2) Please be sure to read the installation and savegame compatibility instructions very closely. There is not a single non-critical step that will not break the install if it is not followed. Make sure not to fly ANYTHING touched by the mod during your preparatory save and don't have them in sight or in sector. Fly an M5 off to a secluded sector or something.

3) Even if you get it installed properly via false patch Cycrow's mod manager may effectively overwrite it with another mod--you're definitely going to have to play with load orders or just break down and merge (which should be much easier now due to the way everything is set up in 1.1) the mods if you want it to work.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I won't be able to respond for at least a few more hours; my apologies. Can I get feedback on the install/upgrade instructions from everyone? Are they confusing? Do they just not work? Please post your experiences. Although I'll be gone for the next couple hours/half dayish I WILL intensively support this and make sure everything works--you just have to point me in the direction of what doesn't work.

[Dan101]

Thanks for all your help guys. I did as you said and it worked. Now to test to see if the mod is functioning properly.

Cycrow's tools are very good and make mod management very easy. What the don't do is tell you if you have a conflict. I might try unpacking all the mods I'm using and see if I can find anything amiss. I suspect the issue might have been with the MARS repair drones mod, but I see you have written that they are compatible? Regardless I have removed it and will test to see if it works.

Update: Everything seems to be working fine now. I really appreciate you guys taking time out to help me, thanks very much!

I believe the original issue was with the MARS repair drones mod. I can see on the first page that the 2 mods are compatible so maybe I'm doing something (else) wrong?

[Alkeena]

Cycrow's tools are very good and make mod management very easy. What the don't do is tell you if you have a conflict.

Aye, I know what the manager does generally--I don't know what it does specifically though. Unfortunately, due to the way BSD operates a very specific installation procedure is absolutely critical, as you've discovered. =)

I suspect the issue might have been with the MARS repair drones mod, but I see you have written that they are compatible? Regardless I have removed it and will test to see if it works.

Update: Everything seems to be working fine now. I really appreciate you guys taking time out to help me, thanks very much!

I believe the original issue was with the MARS repair drones mod. I can see on the first page that the 2 mods are compatible so maybe I'm doing something (else) wrong?

Oi, alright, I can own up to this...my fault for not being clear enough in the description. BSD Core has the MARS mod merged in--the MARS mod (not the script, the mod--for enabling goblin repair beams..) is already a part of BSD. It was included in BSD Core as it is a very innocuous change and a lot of people use MARS. If you attempt to install the MARS mod on top of BSD you produce absolutely no new functionality (since it's already there) but you do overwrite files (namely \types\TShips) that are absolutely critical for the operation of BSD. So, in short:

Do not install the MARS mod (do install the script if you want to run MARS); it's already a part of BSD.

I'll update the OP along with some other merging info in a bit.

Glad you were able to get it working though. =)

[Alkeena]

Updated OP with info on merging BSD with other mods + clarified MARS compatibility (I hope...).

[Madtrack]

@Dan101

Glad to be of help, installing a mod like that the instructions can sometimes be a bit overwhelming if you're not used to it as there's a lot of info to process

@Alkeena

As soon as I have some free time (a bit later tonight) I'll install the mod and leave you feedback, the new structure looks great, and thanks for the hidden freebie of having different Tships for different tastes in the cat/dat that's a great idea

did you change anything in the cockpit mod or did you just remove the TShips ? I haven't had time to check yet

[Alkeena]

Merged Tships into my own and mucked about a bit with \types\components but otherwise unchanged.

[Madtrack]

Merged Tships into my own and mucked about a bit with \types\components but otherwise unchanged.

Allright cheers,

I installed your mod, did a lot of cloning and came up with some extra info:

When cloning, you must uninstall weapons first or you will get twice as much weapons as you had (Installed weapons + those in the hold when normally they should be the same)

If you have more shields than your ship can install (of the same type, say your ship can install 4x200mj and you have 6x200mj in the hold) you'll end up with a wrong amount of shields

I checked the following ships and here's some feedback:

Terran Tokyo --> perfect now
Argon Minotaur > OK
Yaki Ryu -------> OK
Paranid Deimos> Could be a little closer to the ship, looks separated
Argon Cerberus->OK
Argon H.Centaur>OK
Terran MMBS --->OK
Pirate Galleon -->OK
Argon Collossus >OK
Argon Titan ----->Same as Deimos, maybe a little closer ?
Argon Mammoth>OK
Terran Vidar ---->OK
Terran Osaka --->OK

Also, I noticed, when installing your mod (Balance), an undocumented change, the laser generator of the tokyo went from 300 000 to something like 39 000

I checked in the BSD Core and it's the same, shouldn't it belong to your balance mod only ? I don't disagree with the nerf, far from it, but I think it should be closer to the Terran Odin M1 (around 100 000 IIRC) as Terran ships tends to have larger laser generators than the other races, no reason why the tokyo should be different (currently it's set lower than the colossus)

Hope it helps

[someone else]

just to say... have you read this?

can be useful to create docks where ships don't pass through the "carrier" structure.

[Alkeena]

I installed your mod, did a lot of cloning and came up with some extra info:

When cloning, you must uninstall weapons first or you will get twice as much weapons as you had (Installed weapons + those in the hold when normally they should be the same)

If you have more shields than your ship can install (of the same type, say your ship can install 4x200mj and you have 6x200mj in the hold) you'll end up with a wrong amount of shields

Bah, I guess I'll re-write the instructions from clone ship to spawn ship -> transfer wares. The install procedure is getting horrendously complex for people that don't quite know what they're doing though as evidenced by the number of people with install issues...Not quite sure what to do about it :-\

I checked the following ships and here's some feedback:

Paranid Deimos> Could be a little closer to the ship, looks separated
Argon Titan ----->Same as Deimos, maybe a little closer ?

I will definitely look at these and try to fine tune them a little more. The problem is with the number of different docking possibilities due to the universal clamp--something that looks spot on with a Mercury SF puts half of an M6 into the carrier body while it's docked. Adjust for M6 and the TS is out in the middle of nowhere; and so on and so on. I'll see if I can't find a better compromise position though for 1.2.

Also, I noticed, when installing your mod (Balance), an undocumented change, the laser generator of the tokyo went from 300 000 to something like 39 000

This is actually from bug fix, just like the trails were...I'm finding that there were a lot of undocumented changes (such as the trails) as well as balance changes that wouldn't necessarily be classed bugs. As I told you in the PM the bugfix TShips was actually my base file which everything was merged into so I've also picked up all these little oddities...

The reason that TShips was used as the base even with 1.1 (i.e. it occurs as the default TShips even when only using BSD Core) is because if I included a different TShips in the actual BSD Bugfix module then I would have required two versions of BSD Balance for the user to use based on whether or not they'd installed Bugfix or not--again expanding and complicating the install instructions which I want to avoid at all costs given the issues people are already having. So I decided it best to standardize to one TShips. Thus I continued with the bugfix tships as the base, assuming that most of the changes were actually innocuous bug fixes. That was a mistaken assumption unfortunately. I did however include the minimally modified TShips in the cat/dat for [amongst other things] those people that were truly bugfix phobic so you can use that if you wish.

I will investigate the following changes (and anything else that might be found that was undocumented) arising from Bugfix and ensure they do not appear in future versions of BSDCore:

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30)(tship) swapped stats for the kite and kite vanguard so they are now have the correct stats for the class they are listed as. the kite vanguard had the stats for a M4+ but was listed as a M4. the kite had the stats for a M4 but was listed as a M4+.

33)(tship) as it was brought up. the baldric and the baldric miner has the exact same stats. i have slightly changed the miners stats; made the ship slightly slower in favor of it being more manoeuvrable, which is needed to navigate a debris field. miner also has a slightly smaller cargo space due to it needing specialized mining equipment but has a slightly larger power reserves. stats adjusted in 2.1

43)(tship) adjusted the stats for the tokyo. only ship that even came close in stats was the #deca and that is a unique ship (at least in my game it is). now the tokyo is more in line with other M1 classed ships. 

Hope it helps

It does, thank-you =D

[someone else]

Adjust for M6 and the TS is out in the middle of nowhere; and so on and so on. I'll see if I can't find a better compromise position though for 1.2.

why don't adding more docking slots to the scene, each that allows only one type of ships to dock while leaving the number of docked ships the same.
This way the fighters will dock on the "fighter only clamp" and look cool, the M6 will dock on the "M6 only clamp", and so on. After the number of ships stated in the "hangar" of Tships is reached the other "docking clamps" even if present will be unused.

This would work on ships that don't have internal hangar due to the fact that the others have so large hangar space that would allow all ships to fill the redundant external clamps.

p.s. you saw the link I posted in my previous post?

[Alkeena]

just to say... have you read this?

can be useful to create docks where ships don't pass through the "carrier" structure.

Yep.

BSD was originally a bugfix for Coffee-Man's Hangar Mod that eventually evolved into something so dramatically different that I decided to release it. The very first changes were to Dummies to take advantage of many of the keys you list there. This dramatically improved the clipping issues originally present. I then moved several clamps to make the approaches even more accessible and less glitchy. At this point I think only one or two of the original hangarmod clamp locations and types still persists.

In truth I could pretty easily make it so that there were no clipping issues on any of the clamps but it would lead to a lot less variety and interesting positions while the ships were docked. All I would have to do is set a 30 degree approach angle and set all the clamps at the back of the ship...it just wouldn't look as cool.

I'm still very interested in hearing about clipping issues though--I can certainly make things better by tailoring specific dock types for specific ships where the clipping is simply horrendous--This is precisely what I did for the Zeus and Shark in 1.1.

Long story, short: I know about the options and have put most of them into play. Continue to let me know about clipping issues and I'll dig deeper into the bag of tricks to see about fixing them =)

[Alkeena]

Adjust for M6 and the TS is out in the middle of nowhere; and so on and so on. I'll see if I can't find a better compromise position though for 1.2.

why don't adding more docking slots to the scene, each that allows only one type of ships to dock while leaving the number of docked ships the same.
This way the fighters will dock on the "fighter only clamp" and look cool, the M6 will dock on the "M6 only clamp", and so on. After the number of ships stated in the "hangar" of Tships is reached the other "docking clamps" even if present will be unused.

This would work on ships that don't have internal hangar due to the fact that the others have so large hangar space that would allow all ships to fill the redundant external clamps.

If you look closely at the scene files this is precisely what I did for the M7s with M4/M5 docking--there are actually two docks, one M5, one M4, stacked right on top of each other, but only one available docking slot. This DOES NOT work with more docking slots however as it would then allow an M5 and an M4 to end up docking right on top of each other. At that point I would have to see about actually creating a combo dock which isn't yet necessary.

The problem here is that we are explicitly talking about carriers with far more docking than just the clamps. If I break up bomber/M6 docking from TS/TP/Whatever docking then I would be effectively providing more clamps, so you would end up with a TS docked literally on top of/in your bombers because they saw a free docking slot and could take it. The only option at that point would be to move the TS clamp, but then I've basically doubled the amount of clamps available--again unbalancing things.

All told I'd much rather find a compromise clamp position =)

p.s. you saw the link I posted in my previous post?

Yes, it takes me time to type a response though which you'll see above this one

[someone else]

I found a oddity while integrating the mod...
what is this entry in the scene files?

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P 30; B ockpit; N Cockpit; j  // idx 31
{ 0x2002;  0; 0; 0;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

it is in some ships you modified... (this one comes from the Colossus) it should reference to a file called "ockpit" that is found free-floating in the object folder. No file called "ocKpit" anywhere.

looks like a placeholder...



p.s. just a thought... can you call the various docking dummies with a more descriptive name? "new_535_ExtDock_dummy" or "extern_M63_dock" does not say a lot on the true function of the dummy imho. It will be easier to tweak if the names mean something.

[Alkeena]

I found a oddity while integrating the mod...
what is this entry in the scene files?

Code: Select all

P 30; B ockpit; N Cockpit; j  // idx 31
{ 0x2002;  0; 0; 0;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

it is in some ships you modified... (this one comes from the Colossus) it should reference to a file called "ockpit" that is found free-floating in the object folder. No file called "ocKpit" anywhere.

looks like a placeholder...

"Cockpit"

And yes, a placeholder. Doesn't matter either way.

p.s. just a thought... can you call the various docking dummies with a more descriptive name? "new_535_ExtDock_dummy" or "extern_M63_dock" does not say a lot on the true function of the dummy imho. It will be easier to tweak if the names mean something.

Ext 535 = Heavy Fighter
M63 = Universal that launches forward

Please don't just 'tweak' the scene files on your own--you'll end up forking BSD into my version and your rebalance version such that any fixes applied to mine wont show up in yours and vice versa. We both loose in that case...If something needs to be tweaked let me know and I'll take care of it.

Edit: Also, I'm not going to change all the dock names--it's a huge amount of work with little tangible benefit and a huge liklihood of messing something up and introducing a lot of bugs.

[someone else]

but why a placeholder? the docks can change index number easily... nothing is directly linked to their index.

Don't wanna change names? just add a small readme.txt stating what dock is what for all docks you created... looking at Dummies file is not for dummies.
I'm not gonna change them either. Less changes i make, less bugs i create.

Please don't just 'tweak' the scene files on your own--you'll end up forking BSD into my version and your rebalance version such that any fixes applied to mine wont show up in yours and vice versa.

my rebalance mod contains ships with different scene files from the draffut's player fixes (look at the brand new K with moved turrets and cameradummys for maximum coverage for example), so I'm simply copy/pasting the docking dummy entries (and the strange placeholders) in them. Easy and simple. No change on dock number, no change on dock type, no change on dock position.
I'll surely keep track of what you do to move/change the docking when needed by altering my files to comply to your mod specifications. If guys wanna complain or suggest something on dock's number/position/type (and it is not a "bug" caused by my integration) I'll redirect them here.

p.s. if everything runs smoothly this evening I'll have the new version with this integrated. (and you'll have a stream of comments/suggestions)

p.p.s. "ockpit" (the one after the B) is the file name + file path, the "Cockpit" (the one after the N) is the name of the object in the modelling program, and the game ignores it.

EDIT: warning! the index 16 in the Teladi Heavy Osprey is a dock! you did not replace it with your dock dummy/a placeholder!

EDIT2: ATF Valhalla index 66 and 65 are unanimated docks. not that I know what they do though...

EDIT3: Xenon Q looks without any dock... but seems intended. I'd like to see her with a dock like other M7

EDIT4: i decided that ships that had already a hangar should not have more hangar space... you wanna load a bommer or Tranzport? You load 1 less fighta', looks fair to me due to "weight constraints". Just in case you want to do the same.

[Alkeena]

EDIT: warning! the index 16 in the Teladi Heavy Osprey is a dock! you did not replace it with your dock dummy/a placeholder!

Yep, I actually found this last night--I must have missed it when I commented them out from the other vanilla MM6. Just put some slashies ( // ) in front of any 19044 you see. It's a 535 (Heavy fighter) with a slightly different approach. I also added one docking slot to the Washi Hauler in tships last night--it uses the argon MM6 model so there's no reason it shouldn't have it really...

EDIT2: ATF Valhalla index 66 and 65 are unanimated docks. not that I know what they do though...

Yep--it's there in vanilla as well. That's not my handiwork though and I thought it best not to mess with it since I'm not altogether certain of it its function either.

EDIT3: Xenon Q looks without any dock... but seems intended. I'd like to see her with a dock like other M7

[/quote]

Truth be told I got lazy--all of the Xenon ships were sort of an afterthought and added last minute to 1.0. I added a dock last night (amongst a few other changes prepping/testing for 1.2) to the Q. I'm not at my computer at the moment and I can't recall the exact coords off hand--it's an m4 + m5 set beneath the ship in the recess between the 'tail' and the main body of the ship. I'll give you the exact line from the scene when I get home tonight.

[Alkeena]

I'll give you the exact line from the scene when I get home tonight.

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P 19; B ships\props\extern_m42_dock; N Bships\props\extern_m42_dock; b  // idx 25
{ 0x2002;  0; -60500; -55000;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

P 20; B ships\props\extern_m5_dock; N Bships\props\extern_m5_dock; b  // idx 25
{ 0x2002;  0; -60500; -55000;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

For those of you with no idea what's above, fear not 1.2 will have it and a host of other improvements--I'm not going to release it for a little while though just so people don't have to keep upgrading constantly. I'll wait until a bunch of other fixes (or ~2 weeks, whichever comes first) justify a release and the hassle of upgrading. This was actually originally my plan for 1.1 (all of these fixes would have been in 1.1 originally if I'd just waited two more days) but people were clamoring for a different file structure to make merging easier so it was pushed out the door a little faster...no need to do that this time really. =)

Here's what I've done so far for BSD 1.2, not quite enough to put people through an upgrade so soon after 1.1...

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Clamp Related:

M6M - 
	Teladi MM6  	
		Fix non-exclusive M5 docking	
		M3/4/5 -> M5
	Yaki MM6 Washi Hauler	
		ADDED M5
		1 Total Docking Slot

M7 - 
	Xenon M7 Q
		ADDED M4/M5
		1 Total Docking Slot
!!!	Paranid M7 Deimos
		"Could be a little closer to the ship, looks separated"
		No change yet. Still need to investigate			

M1 -
!!!	Argon M1 Titan 
		"Same as Deimos, maybe a little closer?" 		
		No change yet. Still need to investigate





Merges:

Merged BSD Bugfix [ONLY!] with EMP ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=220541 ).





Bugfix TShip leakage into BSD Core:

"30)(tship) swapped stats for the kite and kite vanguard so they are now have the correct stats for the class they are listed as. the kite vanguard had the stats for a M4+ but was listed as a M4. the kite had the stats for a M4 but was listed as a M4+."
	Left in place -> Genuine bug fix.

"33)(tship) as it was brought up. the baldric and the baldric miner has the exact same stats. i have slightly changed the miners stats; made the ship slightly slower in favor of it being more manoeuvrable, which is needed to navigate a debris field. miner also has a slightly smaller cargo space due to it needing specialized mining equipment but has a slightly larger power reserves. stats adjusted in 2.1"
	BSD Core:	
		Baldric Miner 
			Reset to Vanilla stats (Identical to base Baldric + ability to mount mining gear)
	BSD Balance: (1.1 -> 1.2 )
		Baldric Miner
			Cargo changed from 5000/6000 to 4500/6000 to avoid supertuning issues
			
"43)(tship) adjusted the stats for the tokyo. only ship that even came close in stats was the #deca and that is a unique ship (at least in my game it is). now the tokyo is more in line with other M1 classed ships. "
	BSD Core: 
		Reset to vanilla stats
		Weapons Energy: 	39000 -> 300000
		Weapons Recharge rate:	1169.961 -> 8999.7
	Vanilla -> BSD Balance: 
		Usual Commonwealth M2/M1 Laser Energy Devisor = 5.2; Here Terran M2/M1= 4.5 (Vanilla = 1.5) to account for extra barrels relative to normal M1
		Weapons Energy:		300000 -> 100000
		Weapons Recharge Rate:  8999.7 -> 2999.9