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[Mod] Bomber and Shuttle Docking v1.1 ( 8-28-09 ) Now with greater modularity.
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Alkeena





Joined: 15 May 2007



modified
PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 09:36    Post subject: [Mod] Bomber and Shuttle Docking v1.1 ( 8-28-09 ) Now with greater modularity. Reply with quote Print

Bomber and Shuttle Docking (BSD) v1.1

Overview:

This modification allows you to dock your craft in ships that would otherwise be unable to accommodate such docking actions. Most notably it permits bomber docking in carriers, fighter docking in M2/M7/M6M, and TS/TP docking in TL. This is accomplished by taking advantage of external docking clamps not unlike those utilized by Coffee-Man in his Hangar Mod ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=228147 ). The difference between Hangar mod and this is that BSD has class specific docking--M8 and TM docking are not possible in Hangar mod but possible here while class restrictions are in place to ensure that only certain types of fighters may be carried by particular ships. Furthermore the available docking is at a much greater premium with most ships having only a very few clamps available to maintain inter and intra class balance.

BSD comes pre-merged with Gazz's turret fixes ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=226528 ); repair beams are also permitted on all drones and so BSD is fully functional with the MARS fire control script/mod ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=217470 ). Please note that this means that the MARS mod not the script is a part of BSD already. DO NOT install the MARS mod or Gazz's Turret fixes over BSD--they are already installed with BSD. If you want MARS functionality you will have to install the MARS scripts though.

In addition to the above built in functionality, BSD is also provided with fully compatible, optional, and modular components that allow the player to choose to (or not to) seamlessly integrate Draffutt's Unofficial Player Bug Fixes for TC 2.1 ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=239591 ) as well as PSC01's Cockpit mod ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=254635 ). Finally I have included an optional minor balance module designed to accommodate some shortcomings in the AI weapon selection routines as well as address other balance issues of a few select ships and ship classes.

Detail:

I have attempted to follow these general guidelines when allocating available docking slots:

M1: 2 Universal ( M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP ) clamps
M2: 2 Heavy Fighter ( M3/M4/M5 ) clamps
TL: 2 Trading ( TS/TP ) clamps
M7 Carrier: 1 Universal ( M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP ) clamp
M7 & M7M: 1 Medium Fighter ( M4/M5 ) clamp
M6M: 1 Light Fighter ( M5 ) clamp

There are however several outliers. For instance the Terran Mobile Mining Base TL has 4 trading clamps as it was explicitly designed to interact with TS for its primary role, also the Boreas has 3 heavy fighter clamps to compensate for some of the nerfs that were made in the included (but optional) balance mod (alternatively it just makes the Boreas even more relatively overpowered if you don't use the balance mod, whichever suits you). The full list of changes and available docking clamps can be found in the third post. Also note that total docking slots on affected ships were increased to accommodate the clamps.

Pictures are available in the second post.

This mod is presently in a beta stage. After many hours of testing it appears to work precisely as advertised; however I have not been able to test anything approaching the total number (thousands) of docking permutations enabled by this mod so please report any and all oddities you may encounter. Currently there are a few clipping issues while the docking flight path is followed for some models, however collision is disabled during the docking procedure so this is purely an aesthetic blemish at this point.

Download:

BSD v1.1 is designed for and compatible with X3:TC v2.1 only.

BSD v1.1 Mod Pack:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mhfvzzomnwr

Installation:

1. Download the BSD Mod Pack from the link above.

2. UnRAR the Pack and select the modules you would like to install:

A) Bomber and Shuttle Docking (BSD Core REQUIRED)
B) Draffutt's Bugfix (BSD Bugfix -- BSD Compatible Module HIGHLY RECOMMENDED)
C) PSC01's Cockpits (BSD Cockpit -- BSD Compatible Module)
D) BSD Balance Mod (BSD Balance)

3. Install the modules as false patches

It is strongly advised that you install BSD as a false patch as opposed to utilizing X3:TC's built in modification support. Failure to install BSD as a false patch will result in broken and dysfunctional installations. Utilizing X3:TC's built in modification support framework to install BSD or other mods may disable any false patches you have applied--be very careful with X3's built in mod support.

To install BSD as a false patch simply unrar the files into your X3:TC directory and rename the cat and dat file pairs of your chosen modules to the next highest sequential number in the directory, making sure that the BSD Core cat/dat pair precedes all other BSD modules. For example, if the highest cat / dat pair you have in your X3:TC directory prior to the installation of BSD is 08.cat and 08.dat then rename the BSD Core.cat / dat to 09.cat and 09.dat. Please note that BSD Core is the only REQUIRED module.

If you've elected to install any of the other BSD modules as well then ensure that they are all numbered higher than BSD Core: 10.cat and 10.dat for example. The individual ordering of the remaining modules (Bugfix, Cockpits, Balance) is inconsequential however you must ensure that the series of cat/dat file names in your X3:TC directory are continuous ( 01, 02, 03, ... , 08, 09, 10, etc without break) and that all BSD Modules come later in the series than BSD Core.

Savegame compatibility:

BSD should be compatible with savegames provided some care is taken during installation. First hop in a ship that is not touched by BSD (see the list below--all M3/5 class craft fit this criteria, not M4 if you use the balance mod though) and enter a sector which also does not contain any of the ships to be modified (various unknown sectors are your best bet) and save. Quit X3:TC and install BSD as per the instructions above and then load the save game.

Once the game is loaded only NEWLY CREATED SHIPS (such as those bought from a shipyard) spawned after the installation will function 100% properly. Pre-existing ships will have broken external docking. To fix a particular ship you already own you must install the X3TC Cheat package ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216691 ) which requires the X3TC Plugin Manager ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=218121 ). Within the cheat menu is an option to spawn ships of your choice. Use this option to make yourself a new version of the ships you want fixed, then transfer wares over to the new ship from your old ship, and then finally destroy the old one. Please note that this is only necessary to fix external docking on pre-existing ships--the stats modifications arising out of BSD Balance (if you chose to install it) will be applied seamlessly.

This process will leave you exactly where you began except with functional docking. It is a fix, not a cheat. I will attempt to work on a script to automate this process; unfortunately I am not a scripter so that will take some time--don't count on it being completed in the near future.

Upgrading:

To upgrade from a previous version of BSD you must follow the directions provided in the section under the heading "Savegame Compatibility" above. In addition to the instructions provided above you must additionally undock any and all ships that are docked via an external clamp prior to creating you preparatory savegame. Once you have created a savegame matching these criteria exit the game and move or delete the previous cat/dat files associated with BSD from your X3:TC directory and install the updated files as directed in the installation section. You should only have to re-clone ships that have been directly affected by the update. A detailed changelog is available at the end of this post.

General Compatibility:

BSD is compatible with X3:TC v2.1 and is now highly compatible with 3rd party modifications due to the high degree of modularization that was introduced in version 1.1. BSD Core is highly permissive and requires only \types\TShips , \types\Dummies , and \objects\ships\* . Any modification that does not alter these files should be fully compatible. This same compatibility is carried over into BSD Balance as well as it is reliant only upon \type\TShips (and in fact replaces BSD Core's TShips file once installed).

Compatibility decreases as further functionality is added however. Due to the immense number of changes made in Draffutt's Player Bug Fixes (and thus it's associated BSD Module) compatibility without collisions is highly unlikely for most mods. Despite this the bug fix mod is very highly recommended. PSC01's Cockpit mod (and thus BSD Module) is relatively self contained, and in general if a given mod is compatible with BSD Core it should be compatible with BSD Cockpits. However you should reference PSC01's Cockpit thread for particulars.

Any mod that alters Globals.txt (such as coms and sensor range mods or Hub storage amount mods) are explicitly compatible. Lucike's Ecliptic Projector ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=219656&highlight=ecliptic ) is also known to work without conflict. Beyond that, feel free to to experiment and attempt to install other mods. If external docking ceases to function, it's probably a good sign that it's not compatible. =)

For Modders--Merging with other Mods:

Have a pet project that you want to include BSD in? Feel free to, please just be sure to credit me and link back to this thread somewhere where your users will actually see it. In fact, the main distinction between BSD 1.0 and 1.1 was the incorporation of greater modularity to make merging BSD as easy as possible.

If you would like to merge the BSD docking components you need only bother with merging BSD Core. In BSD Core you will find the following files which are required for BSD to operate:

\types\TShips: In BSDCore 1.1, if you unpack it you will see a TShip backup file called TShip minimally modified. This is the 2.1 vanilla TShip file modified to the smallest degree necessary to ensure everything works (but sort of breaks some of the fixes in the player bug fixes, which is why it isn't the default). The only thing that changed in this file was the total available docking per ship, as well as the definition of the cockpit scenes. The cockpit redef is not strictly necessary for docking, meaning you don't have to do it for a merge, it just ensures that the cockpit module works as expected. Note also that the minimally modified file does NOT include MARS compatibility. In short, this file exists only to make merging the absolute core of BSD easier and isn't really intended for general use (although it is possible to do so).

\types\Dummies: Don't mess with this file unless you know precisely what you're doing and why--it defines the underlying behavior of the docking clamps. Unless you have a really good reason not to you should just drop it in wholesale. I've already made sure it's compatible with bugfix/cockpits.

\objects\ships\*: This directory tree contains the scene files modified to add the docking clamps. Additionally this also includes Gazz's turret fixes so there are a few more scene files than BSD actually requires...Providing only turret fixes for ships that BSD directly touched seemed a bit silly and I wasn't about to start creating new scene files from vanilla just to provide broken turrets. Beyond the ship scenes MAKE SURE that you also have everything in \objects\ships\props\ -- those are the scene files for the dock components.

Good luck with your merging shenanigans and don't forget to credit and link. Feedback (good or bad) is always appreciated and if I don't get any I won't be able to improve BSD very much. =)

Uninstall:

To uninstall BSD you must be flying a ship which is not altered by BSD (All M5/M3 fit this criteria), have undocked ALL externally docked ships, and saved your game in a sector in which no ships that have been altered by BSD are present (various unknown sectors are your best bet). Once a savegame with those criterion has been created, exit the game and delete the cat/dat files associated with BSD. At this point you may reload the savegame and continue playing as normal.

Credits:

Coffee-Man: BSD is essentially a highly modified version of his Hangar mod that addresses the incompatibility of TM/M8, merges a few other mods, adds M3/M4/M5 restrictions, and repositions many of the external docks. The fundamental work was done by Coffee-Man though--BSD is merely a refinement of his implementation that would have gotten nowhere without his effort.

Gazz: Turret fix + MARS = win

PSCO1: Dead sexy cockpits

Draffutt: the bug fixes he put together were immense and much appreciated.

Cycrow: As always, a prime motivator in the community. Without his cheat script testing would have been a horrifying experience and savegame compatibility a true rite of passage...Thank-you for your work.


BSD v1.0 -> v1.1 Changelog

Modularized BSD into BSD Core, BSD Balance, BSD Bugfix (Draffutt's Player Bugfixes), and BSD Cockpit (PSCO1's Cockpits)
Upgraded PSCO1's Cockpits to v1.13 8-20-09
Upgraded Draffutt's Player Bugfixes to v2.1 8-19-09

Repositioned the Universal Clamps on the Terran M1 Tokyo to beneath the main docking ring--far more aesthetically pleasing
Repositioned the Universal Clamps on the Paranid M7c Deimos to be a little lower--no more clipping while docked
Improved the undock path from the Paranid M1 Zeus Clamps--no more clipping on undock
Improved the undock path from the Boron M1 Shark Clamps--much faster undocking

BSD Balance only: Changed the Baldric cargo from 4000-5000 to 3500-5000 to avoid supertuning issues when installing BSD into a savegame. If you are upgrading from BSD 1.0 after installing into a savegame your Baldrics may be carrying more cargo than they are rated for. This will not impact their performance in any way, although you will only be able to monotonically decrease (e.g. you can't add any more stuff) what they have in their holds until they have reduced their loads to below their rated capacity.

Reset particle emitters on Teladi Engines back to vanilla values (1), a TShips file with the emitters enabled is available in the cat/dat pairs for those inclined and able to activate it; this is an unsupported feature however.




Last edited by Alkeena on Sat, 29. Aug 09, 18:25; edited 61 times in total
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Alkeena





Joined: 15 May 2007



modified
PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 09:37    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Pictures!
Click on the link beneath the description for a larger version

Mobile Mining Base w/ 4 TS
http://imgur.com/IJnbG.jpg


Mammoth w/ 2 TS
http://imgur.com/bk4YP.jpg


2 M3 Docking w/ a Ray 1
http://imgur.com/AazE5.jpg


Where'd it go? (Ray + 2 M3)
http://imgur.com/kVY8u.jpg


There it is, god M2s are big >.> (Ray + 2 M3 [the other one is on the far side])
http://imgur.com/RzU3j.jpg


Something smaller maybe? Heavy Centaur w/ M5
http://imgur.com/x4Wao.jpg


We can do better...Cerberus w/ M6M w/ M5 =D
http://imgur.com/JjRIK.jpg


Or we could just put a bomber there... Cerberus w/ M8
http://imgur.com/F5XwQ.jpg


But that's what we have carriers for... Zeus + 2 M8
http://imgur.com/pwtHN.jpg


And Condor + 2 M8 (other one on far side, non-symmetric)
http://imgur.com/JTRph.jpg


Not everything can carry everything though: Yokohama + M5
http://imgur.com/Q1BBK.jpg


There is some flexibility though: Yokohama + M4
http://imgur.com/Vu3DY.jpg


Context.. Yokohama + M5
http://imgur.com/625Xk.jpg


Oh, another dessie pic: Python + 2 M3 (Other one on far side:
http://imgur.com/XM6Ir.jpg


Just one more: Heavy Hydra + M5
http://imgur.com/PFNwM.jpg




Last edited by Alkeena on Thu, 20. Aug 09, 20:45; edited 21 times in total
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Alkeena





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modified
PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 10:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Detailed Change Log:

BSD Balance Mod 1.1 Changes:

1. M1, all: 30% larger cargo bay to facilitate fighter logistics.

2. M2, all: 20% larger cargo bay to increase chances of being spawned with better weapon loadouts.

3. TS, tanker variants: Cargo increased by 30%, Speed increased by 15%, restricted to M cargo only. Should act as bulk loaders/fuelers now.

4. M4, all: Speed increased by 15%.

5. Boreas: Converted to light destroyer.
Speed increased from 42-63 to 55-82.5
Shields reduced from 5x2GJ to 3x2GJ.
Laser recharge reduced from 4500 to 3800.
40 Barrels

6. Python: Also a light destroyer
Speed increased from 49.6-69.4 to 50-75
Shields (3x2GJ) Unchanged
Laser Gen reduced from 4974 to 4000
Added the missing guns to all turrets
Increased up guns from 4 to 8
Increased Down guns from 2 to 4
Increased Right guns from 4 to 8
Increased Left guns from 4 to 8
42 Barrels

7. Baldric/Baldric Miner: Increased Cargohold from 3000-4500/4000-5000 to 3500-5000/5000-6000 to account lack of Terran Superfreighter

8. SpringBlossom:
Price tripled to 22 mil
Shields reduced from 3x200MJ to 2x200MJ
Laser Recharge Reduced from 570 to 450


BSD Core 1.1 Docking Clamp Availability:

M1:

Argon M1 Colossus
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
62 Total Docking Slots

ATF M1 Woden
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
32 Total Docking Slots

ATF M1 Odin Outlier
1 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
45 Total Docking Slots

Boron M1 Shark
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
47 Total Docking Slots

Paranid M1 Zeus
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
44 Total Docking Slots

Pirate M1 Galleon
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
27 Total Docking Slots

Split M1 Raptor
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
67 Total Docking Slots

Teladi M1 Condor
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
37 Total Docking Slots

Terran M1 Tokyo
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
52 Total Docking Slots

Xenon M1 J
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
52 Total Docking Slots

Yaki M1 Shuri
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
62 Total Docking Slots

Yaki M1 Hoshi
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
42 Total Docking Slots

M2:

Argon M2 Titan
2 External M3/M4/M5
2 Total Docking Slots

ATF M2 Tyr Outlier
4 External M3/M4/M5
4 Total Docking Slots

ATF M2 Valhalla Outlier
2 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
62 Total Docking Slots

Boron M2 Ray
2 External M3/M4/M5
2 Total Docking Slots

Otas M2 Boreas Outlier
3 External M3/M4/M5
3 Total Docking Slots

Paranid M2 Odysseus
2 External M3/M4/M5
2 Total Docking Slots

Pirate M2 Brigantine
2 External M3/M4/M5
2 Total Docking Slots

Split M2 Python
2 External M3/M4/M5
2 Total Docking Slots

Teladi M2 Phoenix
2 External M3/M4/M5
2 Total Docking Slots

Terran M2 Osaka Outlier
4 External M3/M4/M5
4 Total Docking Slots

Xenon M2 K Outlier
4 External M3/M4/M5
4 Total Docking Slots

Yaki M2 Akuma
2 External M3/M4/M5
2 Total Docking Slots

TL:

Argon TL Mammoth
2 External TS/TP
7 Total Docking Slots

Boron TL Orca
2 External TS/TP
12 Total Docking Slots

Paranid TL Hercules
2 External TS/TP
11 Total Docking Slots

Split TL Elephant
2 External TS/TP
16 Total Docking Slots

Teladi TL Albatross
2 External TS/TP
9 Total Docking Slots

Terran TL Mobile Mining Base Outlier
4 External TS/TP
9 Total Docking Slots

Terran TL Atmospheric Lifter
2 External TS/TP
7 Total Docking Slots

Yaki TL Ryu
2 External TS/TP
14 Total Docking Slots

M7 Carrier:

Argon M7 Cerberus
1 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
7 Total Docking Slots

Paranid M7 Deimos
1 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
7 Total Docking Slots

Split M7s Panther Outlier
1 External TS/TP
33 Total Docking Slots

Teladi M7 Shrike
1 External M8/M6/M3/M4/M5/TM/TS/TP
9 Total Docking Slots

M7:

ATF Aegir
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Boron M7 Thresher
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Paranid M7s Agammemnon
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Pirate M7 Carrack
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Split M7 Tiger
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Terran M7 Yokohama
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

M7M:

Argon M7M Minotaur
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

ATF M7M Skirnir
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Boron M7M Kraken
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Otas M7M Aquilo
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Otas M7M Sirokos
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Paranid M7M Ares
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Split M7M Cobra
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Teladi M7M Gannet
1 External M4/M5
1 Total Docking Slots

M6:

Argon M6M Heavy Centaur
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Argon M6M Heavy Centaur Prototype
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

ATF M6 Vidar Outlier
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

ATF M6M Vali
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Boron M6x Heavy Hydra
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Otas M6M Skiron
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Paranid M6M Heavy Nemesis
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Split M6M Heavy Dragon
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Teladi M6M Heavy Osprey
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Terran M6 Katana Outlier
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

Xenon M6M PX
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots



Last edited by Alkeena on Fri, 28. Aug 09, 22:30; edited 20 times in total
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Killjaeden





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PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 10:26    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Any screenshots of the docking clamps in action?
Sounds good so far (hangarmod added too much dockingpoints imo)


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someone else





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PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 15:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The main thing that makes me wonder is: do the docked ships look normal? or are there some ships that when docked or while docking have some parts that are into the "carrier"? THAT is a issue that i hated of the other hangarmods. If no ugly visual effect occurs with any ship i'll say Thumb up Thumb up Thumb up for you! Very Happy

the "optional balance mod" contains some similarities to my ship rebalance mod.... Rolling Eyes just in case you want to make my entire mod compatible feel free to do that.


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Alkeena





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PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 16:26    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'm working on screenshots now--it's taking bloody forever so give me a bit.

someone else wrote:

the "optional balance mod" contains some similarities to my ship rebalance mod.... Rolling Eyes just in case you want to make my entire mod compatible feel free to do that.


I had originally intended to do just that but there were a number of changes that I disagreed with and also a few bugs that I couldn't be arsed to track down. For example, why did you change the galaxy map? Several shipyards that have hardcoded warelists were broken; according to the model viewer at least there was nowhere to buy Titans for instance.

In any case I decided to not bother merging it because there were too many changes that weren't documented well enough for me to easily decide whether or not I cared for them (changes such as the above galaxy map adjustment) and I didn't really care to go hunting or pestering you so instead I started withe the Player Bug Fix mod as a base, created some fixes such as the TS cockpit fix that led to Draffutt releasing yesterdays new version; merged in cockpits, and hangar mod; Added significant functionality to hangar mod in the form of TM/M8 compatibility and M3/M4 exclusion while moving almost all of the docks; and finally added my own balance mod from scratch on top so that I knew exactly what changed.

You're quite right that I took some of the changelog for your balance mod as inspiration but should also notice that the values have been changed significantly to suite my personal (more conservative) preferences.

M4-Speed: M4s have always been a bit incongruous on the speed/ability scale but you made them way too fast, to the point that they seriously encroached on M5 territory ( ZOMG the Sabre >.> ). What I did is actually break out a spreadsheet; added all speeds for all ships; and looked at the speed jumps between classes. With a little math I arrived at 14.6something as the optimal improvement. Even this isn't really optimal as it spreads the inter M4 speeds differentials a lot (Sabre gains a lot more than a Buzzard Hauler for instance) and what I started doing before I got lazy was just adjusting the M4 average speed while maintaining individual residuals...I'll probably come back to this. Anyway 15% vs your 20% is a big deal here.

Capital Cargo Bays: Similar issue, 20 & 30% vs your 50%-100% boost is not even in the same league really...

TS Tanker: Damn good idea really, Bravo =) . The tankers have always been somewhat questionable and this is a strong solution that I did basically just pilfer from you...again it's just a matter of magnitude on cargo/speed--I take a significantly more conservative position.

Boreas: I'm not even sure what you did here tbh, this was a change based purely on the ship description and the fact that it was obviously overpowered before--kill shields and guns (recharge) while adding speed sufficient to catch the slower M1s.

Python: Same deal but with care taken to to not replicate the Boreas--it's a little slower/stronger.

Springblossom: completely different change really--you hit its speed while I hit the combat ability instead so that it doesn't muck with the AI trading.

Anyway, this is all splitting hairs. End of the day I actually wanted to use your balance mod and agonized over dropping to the bug fix mod as my base. In the end I couldn't be sure of everything that you'd touched though and so decided it was better to go lite. This actually almost happened with the bug fix mod too ( see my post here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=239591&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=295 concerning the ranger change ).

Anyway, I hope that explains it...Also please don't take any of it as criticism--you're doing a damn fine job on it, we just differ in opinion on some things. Keep up the good work =)



Last edited by Alkeena on Thu, 20. Aug 09, 20:27; edited 3 times in total
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Alkeena





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PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 17:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

someone else wrote:
The main thing that makes me wonder is: do the docked ships look normal? or are there some ships that when docked or while docking have some parts that are into the "carrier"? THAT is a issue that i hated of the other hangarmods. If no ugly visual effect occurs with any ship i'll say Thumb up Thumb up Thumb up for you! Very Happy


I just realized that I completely neglected to address this:

Yes, they all look normal (to my eye anyway). I haven't seen any clipping issues once a ship is docked but I haven't tested nearly every combination. If you see something report it and I'll try to fix it. There are clipping issue on some (not even approaching a majority) docking approaches, no clipping issues while docked (that I'm aware of), and very, very few clipping issues while undocking.

If you see any let me know =)

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Alkeena





Joined: 15 May 2007



PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 19:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Pictures Posted.

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bladedranger





Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 114 on topic
Location: UK
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PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 19:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nice mod Alkeena but the pics are too big Smile

from forum rules
Quote:
8. Images posted should not exceed 640 x 480 and 100kb in size


just a friendly heads up before a moderator says the same thing

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Alkeena





Joined: 15 May 2007



PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 19:48    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

*sigh*

Time to fix the images for the fourth time apparently :-\

Thanks for the heads up...to any interested mods I'm working on it...again...

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bladedranger





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PostPosted: Thu, 20. Aug 09, 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

lol you'll get there in the end with the pics...

still though nice mod congrats Thumb up Thumb up

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someone else





Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 2970 on topic
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PostPosted: Fri, 21. Aug 09, 11:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Alkeena wrote:
For example, why did you change the galaxy map? Several shipyards that have hardcoded warelists were broken; according to the model viewer at least there was nowhere to buy Titans for instance.
maybe you didn't notice... but my mod is merged with draffut's Bug-player Fix... My mod consists mainly of the Tships and Tcockpits+ some modified/fixed scene files around. All other files are from Draffut's mod. Very Happy If something does not work in the Galaxy map go pester draffut.

Quote:
You're quite right that I took some of the changelog for your balance mod as inspiration but should also notice that the values have been changed significantly to suite my personal (more conservative) preferences.

As you wish. most of the changes were proposed from other people so... Rolling Eyes

Quote:
M4-Speed:
The speed was intended to be so high... they need to be about as fast as the slower M5s while shooting heavier weapons than a M5 to have still something that makes them better than M3. (quite faster while packing a decent punch) at least imho. Rolling Eyes
Slower M5 (teladi ones mostly) have a enlarged cargo bay (like all Teladi ships) that makes their speed quite high for a trader-oriented ship.

Quote:
Capital Cargo Bays:
most M2s cargo bays were enlarged by to ensure a decent cargo bay... Destroyers in real life stay months without resupply... why my M2 needs a SF full of cells every 2-3 jumps? annoying. The same applies to M1s.... Some ships got a "special treatment" (Python, K, Phoenix for example) for balance (too small cargo bay to be loaded effectively by the Game engine) and credibility (the Phoenix is big as a station... and is Teladi... it MUST have a big cargo bay)
mmmh.. yeah and the fact I always exaggerate is surely having a weight here.

Quote:
Tankers:
eehm Embarassed That was a Gazz's idea... and yes, it was quite cool. Rolling on the floor laughing

Quote:
Boreas:
about the same as mine.

Quote:
Python:
I made it faster and nimblier than any M2 while fixing the side guns. (it was already "faster" but 69 is not what I call "fast")

Quote:
Springblossom:
I removed a couple front guns too Very Happy

Quote:
Anyway, I hope that explains it...Also please don't take any of it as criticism--you're doing a damn fine job on it, we just differ in opinion on some things. Keep up the good work =)

If you feel that your changes are more suited for a rebalance you can always discuss it in my thread... (if you want them included in my mod of course, feel free to create your "remix" of my mod)
I like feedback and discussion, modding the Tships is easy to do... but making something intelligent and cool is quite hard.

now, back to your mod, the pics show that you did a good work....

I think that the M7M's docking slot could be for TS and TP too, for Marines and Missiles... makes sense for me.

p.s. I would really like to add this to my mod... Very Happy I'll wait a little more though...


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Alkeena





Joined: 15 May 2007



PostPosted: Fri, 21. Aug 09, 16:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I could certainly be convinced to go that way and add TS/TP to the M7M class. In truth they had them up until about an hour before I uploaded the mod. I took them out because I was concerned about it snowballing...

"The M7M has a trade dock, why can't my standard M7?"

...

"This trade dock isn't getting much use on my M7, why don't we upgrade it to a Universal so I can actually get some use out of it?"

...

"I carry a bomber around with my on my Thresher all the time now, but I don't have room for my personal shuttle anymore, can we add some more fighter docks?"

etc. etc. until the M2 carried so much docking that there was virtually no reason for an M1, and all the M7s clearly eclipsed the M7 Carrier variants...

Aaaaanyyywaay...I can understand the reasons for wanting a trade dock on M7Ms so long as we don't get carried away. I'll see what the general consensus is in about a day or so and act on it. So, opinions people.

TS/TP Clamp on M7M, Yes or No?

It would still have medium fighter docking as well, but only 1 docking clamp, so you would only get one at a time.

@Someone Else

It's also not so much what I changed, but what I didn't change as well. Wink

For instance in the present incarnation M1s are sort of marginal so nerfing them even moreso by removing all capital level weaponry didn't seem terribly helpful to me. But again, that's just a difference of opinion. Feel free to merge this into your balance mod, just credit and link so that I can get feedback from your users to hopefully make it better =)

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ThomasAH





Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 72 on topic

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PostPosted: Fri, 21. Aug 09, 16:52    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Alkeena wrote:
TS/TP Clamp on M7M, Yes or No?


No, M7Ms are powerful enough.
They should stay at a distance from enemies anyway, so having a TS in transporter range is enough.

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superbun





Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 146 on topic

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PostPosted: Fri, 21. Aug 09, 20:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Call me an idiot, but you didnt make it clear in your first post can i get your mod by itself (without the rebalance, or anything else)


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