A real possibility of multiplayer

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jjz-
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A real possibility of multiplayer

Post by jjz- » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 01:58

I read a topic which talked about "SMX3tc", which was a method to emulate multiplayer in a singleplayer environment. This got me thinking of a way to use the rules established for SMX3tc and share snapshots of only the player's assests between multiple people on a using a peer 2 peer system.

Players can be connected to each other and have a script running in x3 that checks for an updated script at, let's say, 10 minute intervals. This script is run, and what it does is checks against the current player's assets and only adds/removes assets belonging to the other player who uploaded the file with this player. If you read the notes on SMX3tc, it says that assets are to have "(Nick)" in front of their name. This can be used as the filter, to make sure only those assets are updated.

What this will achieve is a multiplayer that is real-time, but where that time interval is large. This is still, in my opinion, favorable to the turn based approach SMX3tc takes.

The big downside with this approach is that the universe outside of the player cannot be influenced by some other player's actions. If a player destroys some station, and then shares his information with you in the p2p system, that destroyed station is not recorded.

I am not saying I will do all of this. I just want to see opinions on this idea. I am a computer science undergraduate who has worked both in American and in Japan on relatively large software products. I can do the networking relatively easily. However, I have no experience with scripting in X3. I would need someone to do that.

Thoughts?

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X1000
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Post by X1000 » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 02:03

interesting, lots of script needed, and lots of lag.... but it is a good idea.

jjz-
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Post by jjz- » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 02:57

Well, the lag should be able to be dealt with easily enough. I assume x3 script has some sort of sleep functionality? If so, the loop that applies changes to the x universe can be told to sleep for a bit so that it gives some time to other tasks on the cpu. With a reasonable sleep value, you should be able to achieve both a quick universe update without sacrificing significant FPS.

eladan
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Post by eladan » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 03:23

You're clearly not all that familiar with scripting in the X games. :wink:

There isn't any "loop that applies changes", I'm afraid. Scripts mostly run independently of one another, and what one script does can't be controlled by another. Also, quite a bit of the stuff which updates the universe is hardcoded.

The idea you've presented isn't a new one (sorry.) It could be made to sort-of work, but there would be some issues with it.

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X1000
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Post by X1000 » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 04:41

From my (EXTREMLY MINOR) experiance scripting, most scritps do run indepently, thanks for bring that up, Mr.Mod!

It was a good idea in theory. But, IMO, i wouldnt wanna play multi player anyhow.

mystikmind2005
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Post by mystikmind2005 » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 04:46

I guess the problem is, when developing these games, it is already hard enough to work within the limits of what the average computer can handle at the time, without even considering what effect multilayer would have! so multilayer is never going to be a viable option until the game gets old and computers are much more powerful compared to what was around when the game was developed. But once a game gets old, who cares to make a multilayer for it?? Well, if the game was an all time classic, perhaps?
What intriguing weapons and shields will you use to protect your trade ships and sectors from the Khaak when your not home? unless you can afford capital ships *and luck* its all for nothing, NOTHING! Mwaahhhhahaha
*(amendment for TC since all the good strategy and planning is no longer enough, you also need luck)*

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Aro
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Post by Aro » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 05:26

Is it possible to have say, an AL plugin (or script), check a file on the hard drive (doubt it can check online) then do an action based on that file?
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jjz-
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Post by jjz- » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 06:39

That was what I was saying. If file io is possible inside x-script, I can do an update system easily.

eledan:
Can't scripts be called by other scripts with parameters? I am pretty sure I have seen this. I am also pretty sure x-scripts have simple nested loops. If they didn't, no real scripting could be done.

All you would need to update is wares, add/remove ships from the universe, add/remove money, etc. Everything I can think of that needs to be updated is stuff I have seen other scripts updating before. I do not believe anything hardcoded in the universe would apply to this mod.

I was not aware someone proposed a peer 2 peer system exactly like I had. Is there another thread for this? If so, this should be merged into that one.

Of course there will be issues. This game is a singleplayer game. The multiplayer cannot be perfect; however, it would be a step in the right direction without having access to the source code.

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supakillaii
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Post by supakillaii » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 11:13

New one? That's... 467th.
Hm? Just counting, don't mind me.

GobsmackedIII
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Post by GobsmackedIII » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 11:41

supakillai, sorry to be a bit off, but was that really necessary, I rather like reading these threads where technical ideas are proposed. I am a VB.Net and SQL developper by the way.

Even if you are fed up with these threads or do not find them interesting, the thought of playing something like X3 on a network with my son appeals to me greatly, I understand why its not possible, but this thread is interesting and I will now hunt for that SMX3tc thread for further enjoyment.

From a person who is not bored by this subject...

t31os_
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Post by t31os_ » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 12:18

I'm also happy to read further ideas toward a multiplayer scenario...

If only for Lan based games with 2 players, this is the one major thing i've always wanted in the X games that they havn't had... (whether it's possible or not doesn't matter, it's not going to stop me having a desire for it..)

eladan
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Post by eladan » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 12:41

jjz- wrote:Can't scripts be called by other scripts with parameters? I am pretty sure I have seen this. I am also pretty sure x-scripts have simple nested loops. If they didn't, no real scripting could be done.
Yep to both.
All you would need to update is wares, add/remove ships from the universe, add/remove money, etc. Everything I can think of that needs to be updated is stuff I have seen other scripts updating before. I do not believe anything hardcoded in the universe would apply to this mod.
I was under the impression you were wanting to halt any updating that the game was doing apart from what you wanted it to do. That's pretty much what my response was aimed at.

One of the most prominent hardcoded systems I was referring to is the GoD engine (stands for Global Decisions) which essentially regulates the economy.

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supakillaii
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Post by supakillaii » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 13:03

GobsmackedIII wrote:supakillai, sorry to be a bit off, etc etc.
I do like to read these.
And just got an idea for the MMO version but then realised it fails.
^.^

Osiris_sam
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Post by Osiris_sam » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 13:28

The X universe is far to complex and dynamic to be successfully integrated into an online environment. If it was going to be a multiplayer... it would have to be written as one (sorry, just the hard truth)

Scripting other peoples stations into the game may sound good on paper... but:

scripts can only be input to by the player, the game engine (and other scripts) and their text files. So in essence, you would have to dynamically create a text file through the peer 2 peer network (not an enormous problem), but it is far from perfect.

jjz-
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Post by jjz- » Fri, 3. Jul 09, 15:04

New one? That's... 467th.
I do wish people had a larger capacity for understanding. I thought it was obvious that when I mean a new proposed idea, I mean a new proposed implementation of multiplayer, not the idea of multiplayer itself. It is obvious that I would not say this was the first proposal of multiplayer itself, because I state in no confusing words that I take many of the ideas from an already proposed multiplayer system.
I was under the impression you were wanting to halt any updating that the game was doing apart from what you wanted it to do. That's pretty much what my response was aimed at.

One of the most prominent hardcoded systems I was referring to is the GoD engine (stands for Global Decisions) which essentially regulates the economy.
I have absolutely no idea how you managed to get that impression :P. No, I did not have it in my head to stop any scripts. I also did not have any intention of messing with god, so to speak.
scripts can only be input to by the player, the game engine (and other scripts) and their text files. So in essence, you would have to dynamically create a text file through the peer 2 peer network (not an enormous problem), but it is far from perfect.
This is obvious. I never stated the system would be perfect. The question is, would it be better than none at all?

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