Generated script downloads (split from sticky)

[shadowdemon2]

NB: I've been away from X3 for like at least 8 months, and I'm considering coming back; I've probably missed a lot...

I've got a few questions; I hope I'm not repeating what s.o. else said:

1) How reliable is the information about conflicts?
2) I don't really get the bit about "green links" being "probably safe slots to use".
3) Would it be possible, for all listed scripts/mods, to have not only a thread link, but also direct download links? (Or is there already one and I just missed it?)

My point is the following: if the info is reliable AND there is a direct link to the scripts/mod files, then would it not be relatively easy to use that info to create a CGI script that helps you select non-conflicting scripts and mods, and when you are finished you just click on a "download" button and receive a big zip-file with all the desired scripts in it (mods are be too big and would have to be downloaded separatly) and you know that you can safely install all that because it's non-conflicting?

This idea seem so obvious to me that if it hasn't been done yet, then it most mean that there is some major problem which I don't know about.

[Gazz]

would it not be relatively easy to use that info to create a CGI script that helps you select non-conflicting scripts and mods, and when you are finished you just click on a "download" button and receive a big zip-file with all the desired scripts in it and you know that you can safely install all that because it's non-conflicting?

A very nice project and it sounds quite user friendly.
I assume you are volunteering?

[shadowdemon2]

Well, technically I have my own website, but my hoster is useless. I just haven't bothered changing because I paid for the whole year in advance. If this doesn't exist I'll give it a try, but don't expect anything soon, as I this would be my first CGI script...

[apricotslice]

1) How reliable is the information about conflicts?
2) I don't really get the bit about "green links" being "probably safe slots to use".
3) Would it be possible, for all listed scripts/mods, to have not only a thread link, but also direct download links? (Or is there already one and I just missed it?)

1. The list is pretty reliable.

2. Anything not on the list may be using a slot and you wont know about a conflict until you get one. eg. I have several 'rinky dink' scripts that are not listed, that probably do conflict. But because the scripts are not really up to standard, they wont be listed.

3. Downloads change. The threads do not. So the appropriate thing is for the list to point to what doesnt change. And let the threads handle the download changes. eg. most times a version changes, so does the download file name, but this isnt relevant to the list.

[shadowdemon2]

3. Downloads change. The threads do not. So the appropriate thing is for the list to point to what doesn't change. And let the threads handle the download changes. e.g. most times a version changes, so does the download file name, but this isn't relevant to the list.

Now we're getting somewhere. So, the download links are not included to reduce the maintenance of the list. This is understandable, but makes my idea more complicated.

One could automatically scan the first post of each script/mod thread, and extract the links to spk files (i.e. once a day). If there is only one, then it must be the latest version, but if there are several, then they have to be manually checked because the thread could be referring to other scrips or older versions.

I was hoping to be able to write something that would be completely automatic (after the bugs have been eliminated), on the basis that the "manual work" was already done by the maintainer(s) of the list. This is not a big deal, but then I have to specify when the last update-check was performed.

If this got going I would also add a "download updates" function where you specify when you last downloaded, and you get only the scripts that changed since then.

One point that might make the whole thing unreliable is the naming of the spk files: if some of the scripts authors change their scripts but don't include a version number in the file name, then the "download manager" (got no good name for it yet) wouldn't know that it changed, and still returns an outdated version. I can't really download and return all the selected scripts every time, because the download would take too long, and might not work if one of the links is currently offline, and it would use too much bandwidth anyway.

I'll give it a try and post a thread if I get to the beta stage...

[shadowdemon2]

Just noticed that the "Last edited by" at the end of a post isn't reliable: the script "Target Lock Hotkey" from Gazz seems to be from "26. Jun 08" and is in the list, but the it says that the list was "Last edited by Burianek on Sun, 19. Mar 06", more then 2 years ago! I was hoping I could use that to see when the data needed to be refreshed.

[apricotslice]

I think you need to start your own thread to discuss this in, or maybe the mods can split these off for you.

Stuff is added and changed very regularly, so maybe do a weekly update.

Also, am I missing something or are you deliberately ignoring zips ?

I'd say the forum software cant cope with a thread being edited as many times as this one has, and the counter gave up the ghost on that last recorded date

[eladan]

Yep, probably best not to clog up the sticky if this will be an ongoing discussion.

Feel free to edit the title if I haven't made it descriptive enough.

[shadowdemon2]

Also, am I missing something or are you deliberately ignoring zips ?

No, this wasn't intentional; I don't want to be "racist" about file formats, it's just that it's been a long time and I forgot how many scripters distribute .zip or .rar files.

A second look at it showed that it involves a lot more manual work then expected:

1) there are about 400 scripts/mods listed (I did not check for duplicate entries)
2) From those 400, I would say that maximum 50% have one automatically detectable link (.spk/.zip/.rar), all the others have to be processed manually.
3) Some authors have notices like: "third party distribution not allowed". Those couldn't be downloaded over my "tool"; in the best case I could list the download links.

Point 2 means it's at best going to takes weeks before I went thru the 50% that aren't automatically parsable and found the real link, or asked the author to put it on the thread. (NB: I'm married with children and a job, so I haven't got that much time free) Some probably won't answer, or refuse, so it will never be able to use 100% of those scripts.

Point 3 means that I can't "cache" the files on my website, as I won't build some AI in the script that detects "legal notices" automatically. That also mean I can't offer a "single download", which would have been the main benefit of this idea.

I'll have "a third look at it", but I don't really think it's practicable anymore. It's possible on the technical level, but not really on the organizational level (unless s.o. here volunteers to help resolve the problems with non-automatically-parsable topic threads, and check them all for "legal notices").

[apricotslice]

Dont give up so fast.

Spk didnt exist at one point and now is widely accepted.

So automatically finding things might be too difficult. Fair comment.

However, theres always a way and the possibility that enough people will come on board with an idea to make it work.

Now, in what your saying, one could do the following :

Automatically follow the link off the sticky.
On the destination page, you look for a specific word formation followed by a valid url. Say "Autodownload from http//..........".
If the thread has a link to another thread or a webpage, then you say this by "Autodownloadlink" and the program then follows the link and looks for the download there.

What it needs is for those who are happy to be included to make minor additions to their threads and download sites to accept the program. Those who dont will get ignored, which will include those who dont allow anyone else to distribute and those who no longer frequent the forums and whos scripts are possibly out of date or unsupported.

You might get enough support to make it viable. Cycrow did.

The first thing is to come up with something that will work, then get the word out for people to join in on it.

All my downloads are on webpages these days, as its easier for me to update the links there, than on threads, particular as most people find my webpages rather than the threads here. Something draws them to my site, and they then follow the links there. It means I can update the download files and not have to find and change threads.

The other thing to consider is that for some of us, our scripts are all linked off a single thread or webpage, and its more efficient to get them from there, than follow individual sticky links. In my case, I also have other links to download that dont have threads for them.

So you need to figure out what you want to include and what will work to do it, then see if you get enough interest from those who write scripts to enable it to work.

[shadowdemon2]

Fine. I'll try to get the scripts programmed, and see how much can be done "automatically". Then I'll make a list of the scripts where I need help and see how many authors are ready to make a special link for my tool.

Thanks for the positive comment!

[Cycrow]

Just noticed that the "Last edited by" at the end of a post isn't reliable: the script "Target Lock Hotkey" from Gazz seems to be from "26. Jun 08" and is in the list, but the it says that the list was "Last edited by Burianek on Sun, 19. Mar 06", more then 2 years ago! I was hoping I could use that to see when the data needed to be refreshed.

the last edited date refers to when the thread starter last edited it.

it doesn't include when mods have edited, which happens with most stickies

[apricotslice]

It would be useful to have a "last updated" date on the top of the sticky. For a number of reasons, not just this one.

[shadowdemon2]

I'm halfway thru "phase-one" (extracting and cleaning data from the sticky). As I was told that some authors changed their names, I am publishing the list of "extracted" names from the "scripts" section (there should be no "new" author name in the "resource" (slots, ...) sections).

If someone's name appeared several times with slithly different spelling, the script will just keep using the first occurence that was found in the sticky. I think this only applies to BOF.

If any of you notice that several names here refer to the same person, please say so, ideally mentioning which one is the "current" one.

-Dusty-
-IH-
7ate9tin11s
A dJ
aalaardb
acrh2
al_main
Apricotslice
arcana75
Armegeddon
B O'F
BEF
Bhruic
Birdman
BlackRain
Blacky_BPG
Brand-X
Bubba Fat
Bunny
burianek
cactus
Carlo
Chem
Cisor
Cycrow
DangerDave
DeadlyDa
Deltawolf
DesertEagle
Devest
Dioltas As Dia
Doomed498
DSE
dwgh
eladan
Euclid
fortysix2nz
fud
Galaxy613
Gazz
giskard
halo
Heretic666
J.L.
Jakesnake5
Jimmy Jazz
Jocan2003
Ketraar
Klaatu
Klyith
Kortako
KryNx
Lancefighter
Laureati
laux
Lazerath
Lebowske
Lt. Ford
Lucike
LV
Maulkye
Mehrunes
MJALowe
moot
mrcann
Myros
Naffarin
Nemeo
nirwin
Nividium
nuclear_eclipse
OML
Osiris_sam
PabloRSA
PapaTong
PrizzZ
Realspace
Red Spot
Reinhart Menken
RJV
Roguey
Ryuujin
S9ilent
Saint-Ashley
Sartorie
Serial Kicked
siath70
StarTrekMarc
Stevio
SuperVegeta
SymTec ltd.
TECSG
The BBS-Project-Team
Tomcat
Trickmov
ttl
TycHouse
UniTrader
voxol
whismerhill
X-Freak Cartman
x0ne
Xai Corporation
Xchange Guild Phlt
xfir01
XGamer
xxBlueDragonxx
Zurechial
Zzyn

[apricotslice]

Talk about a gathering of Rogues !

[shadowdemon2]

I just realized that there is also the German sticky , with some different and some translated scripts on it (and unfortunately also it's very own formating ). Supporting the two would make for a rather more interesting challenge!

NB: Nothing against the French forum/sticky (as I'm a native French speaker), but it's just too small to be worth the trouble.

[B-O'F]

Hi shadowdemon2,

That is a much larger list than I expected....

It looks like you have all the entries - which includes scripts that are not meant for the player, but for other scripters... I do not see an easy way round that......

Anyway, to make your life easier, I will ask to have my name changed (as it is in a very good cause) to the easier BOF. There are only a few changes, as most of my scripts are not listed..

One other question - how are you going to manage the scripts from the list that were then released in the Bonus Pack? (yet another headache for you).

Best of luck,

Boron - Ol Fh'art

p.s. There is also an Italian forum - it appears to have mainly the English scripts listed....

[shadowdemon2]

It looks like you have all the entries - which includes scripts that are not meant for the player, but for other scripters... I do not see an easy way round that......

I actually wanted to write a tool so that non-scripters can get going without having to fight with incompatible scripts. "Libraries" aren't of interest to them, so I'll skip them from now on.

Anyway, to make your life easier, I will ask to have my name changed (as it is in a very good cause) to the easier BOF. There are only a few changes, as most of my scripts are not listed..

Thanks!

One other question - how are you going to manage the scripts from the list that were then released in the Bonus Pack? (yet another headache for you).

Only if the "resources" they use are documented, because I want to be able to predict conflict, which is not possible without this info. If they don't fit in the sticky, we can always put them in another thread with similar formating. As those scripts don't really change, this is an acceptable amount of work, which can be done later, when the rest works.

p.s. There is also an Italian forum - it appears to have mainly the English scripts listed....

I can't read Italian. I'll only consider the English and German scripts for now. I can do the French later if it has enough original content, and s.o. else will need to volunteer if I should also include the Italian forum.

My main problem now is that a lot of things are spelled differently in several places. As I'm not a MOD, I can't fix that myself, and I don't know how to get that fixed without a lot of trouble for Burianek or some other MOD. The list of problems is only going to be complete once I parsed and analyzed the whole sticky. OTHO, if I can't get those problems fixed, then the whole project is doomed, as it will never be able to run unattended. That is why I need a solution to this problem, as I don't want to spend a week programming, just to realize that I was wasting my time.

In other words, I need to win one MOD to my cause...

[Carlo the Curious]

One other question - how are you going to manage the scripts from the list that were then released in the Bonus Pack? (yet another headache for you).

Only if the "resources" they use are documented, because I want to be able to predict conflict, which is not possible without this info. If they don't fit in the sticky, we can always put them in another thread with similar formating. As those scripts don't really change, this is an acceptable amount of work, which can be done later, when the rest works.

BP scripts use a separate set of resources, iirc - which can be confusing if you install the BP and you have a non-BP version of the script installed as well!

Incidentally, Xai Corp also has a database of scripts and resources, although I don't think it's been updated lately.

[Cycrow]

One other question - how are you going to manage the scripts from the list that were then released in the Bonus Pack? (yet another headache for you).

Only if the "resources" they use are documented, because I want to be able to predict conflict, which is not possible without this info. If they don't fit in the sticky, we can always put them in another thread with similar formating. As those scripts don't really change, this is an acceptable amount of work, which can be done later, when the rest works.

BP scripts use a separate set of resources, iirc - which can be confusing if you install the BP and you have a non-BP version of the script installed as well!

not exactly, they use the same resources. However, for commands, it is adviced to not use any of the commands below ID 16.

which is y the compatability only shows from 16 onwards. The rest are resevered for the bonus pack. As long as you follow this rule then the bonus pack and unsigned scripts will never conflict with command slots.

however, for wares its different. the BP uses the same wares as other scripts do, because there are a limited number of wares, most of them are already used up by the bonus pack anyways. Which is y alot of scripts now use EMP. There are some that still dont, and can conflict with others, but in general ware conflicts are usually less of a problem