So! PSG's vs. Flaks. Discuss.

[Nulric]

Pretty much what the title says. Whats your opinions regarding these two largely anti-fighter weapons? Well, put it another way, what are your opinions on them when used solely in an anti-fighter role, hehe. Pro/Cons of them, mostly in regards to capital ship mounting, and flubbing through those ugly fighter swarms.

So, what do you love, what do you hate?

[sparticus247]

I love the Gamma PSGs if i'm going against the Kha'ak. An M3 equipped with one of these babies can shread 2-3 clusters within seconds.

[Kor'ah]

Outside Xenon/Kha'ak sectors I tend to stick with FLAKs.

Inside those sectors. Few things obliterates those fighter swarms like massed (16-18) GPSGs. K loaded down with BFAAs can but that's not the easiest ship to aquire. Python just doesn't have the gun mounts to compete at all. Another big point for PSGs is that unlike FLAKs they're usefull against capital ships and stations.

Here's the main defineing point between the two. Captures. If you care about captureing every last fighter then go FLAKs. If you really could care less about captureing ships late game, like me, loadup on the GPSGs and mow'em down.

[Carlo the Curious]

FLAKs - precision, energy use seems lower. Single target, fairly useless against capitals. Loud. Really, really loud.
PSGs - energy hogs, lots of coverage, major damage against almost anything. Frame rate killers.

I use either depending on the situation (and ship, of course) - FLAKs have very few friendly fire and cap/crate trashing issues, but PSG coverage is nice (particularly for the endless fighters in kha'ak sectors).

PSGs aren't restricted to anti-fighter, btw - if you're in range then GPSGs can make extremely short work of capital ships.

[jollygolly]

I agree with Sparticus, can't beat PSGs against Xenon either, whilst you shred the target they bash the hell out of his mates too. Not good in crowded sectors though, the loss of the police license for a small indiscretion, is a dent in the profits of the fight. Loss of rep also alters your trading profits for your empire so I try not to do too much collateral damage, carry both sets of weapons and swap depending on circumstances.

[karl_1_marx]

Let's add some facts!

Code: Select all

____________!_Range_!_Dam(Hull)_!_Dam(Shield)_!_Shot/min
Flak cannon ! 1269m !    1687   !    10395    !   56
Flak array  ! 1516m !    2500   !    17325    !   56
gPSG        ! 1440m !     109   !     1996    !   76
gKyE.(4comp)! 4857m !    4500   !     7500    !   86

Damage is per Time

Data pinned from seizewell.de

Sure PSG hits multiple targets, but I never found more than 5 fighters in range...

Pro-PSG: Not so much hull damage initially, so some more blue ones afterwards. No gPPC crates either, which is pro-Flak


Cheers
KarMa

[fiksal]

Let's add some facts!

Code: Select all

____________!_Range_!_Dam(Hull)_!_Dam(Shield)_!_Shot/min
Flak cannon ! 1269m !    1687   !    10395    !   56
Flak array  ! 1516m !    2500   !    17325    !   56
gPSG        ! 1440m !     109   !     1996    !   76
gKyE.(4comp)! 4857m !    4500   !     7500    !   86

Damage is per Time

um hm, that looks suspecious.
first, there are two Flak cannons: AFAA and BFAA
and three kinds of PSGs.

Now, while I am guessing the damage per shot is greater on FAAs, and probably per minute too, I think GPSG outranges BFAA.


And isnt BFAA only available on K? I cant remember...

FLAKs - precision, energy use seems lower. Single target, fairly useless against capitals. Loud. Really, really loud.
PSGs - energy hogs, lots of coverage, major damage against almost anything. Frame rate killers.

Energy hogs? Really? I've noticed just the opposite.
The energy drained per shot on FAAs seems to be much greater than on PSGs.
I am thinking even HEPTs may drain more than PSGs... though dont quote me on that.

I use either depending on the situation (and ship, of course) - FLAKs have very few friendly fire and cap/crate trashing issues, but PSG coverage is nice (particularly for the endless fighters in kha'ak sectors).

PSGs aren't restricted to anti-fighter, btw - if you're in range then GPSGs can make extremely short work of capital ships.

Agreed, though FAAs arent exactly restricted to anti-fighter either.
For example, BFAA is still effective against (slow) M6s.

[xria]

In that table doesn't that miss the difference between PSG and most other weapons - when most shots hit the target, they disappear thus only doing that damage once per shot. For a PSG it keeps damaging anything in the expanding damage cloud each time damage is checked, so for ships caught near the centre it can do many multiples of that damage per shot.

May have changed since x2 of course, and I have only been shot at with PSGs so far in x3.

[fiksal]

May have changed since x2 of course, and I have only been shot at with PSGs so far in x3.

is that how it worked in X2?

it does seem like 'every particle' in PSG blast does damage... so that the larger the ship the worse it'll get it.
I wonder how it's calculated though... on intersection of the circle and the ship model? - maybe that's why it's such a CPU/GPU hog

[Kor'ah]

Sadly the data omits a few other key facts.

The first is a PSG can, and often does, scores several hits on the same target with a single shot as the shockwave passes through it.

The second is the shockwave carries a good bit past the stated range 1.44km. It's more like 2km and maybe beyond. To take full advantage of the GPSG's max effective range you need to toss in a BPAC or AHEPT into the turret cluster.

[Carlo the Curious]

And isnt BFAA only available on K? I cant remember...

Python and Raptor can take BFAA in a few slots.

PSGs - energy hogs...

Energy hogs? Really? I've noticed just the opposite.
The energy drained per shot on FAAs seems to be much greater than on PSGs.

Checking the numbers I have does say GPSGs drain less than BFAA (449/shot vs 750/shot, or 34K/min vs 42k), but it always seemed like more to me - probably just a result of the relative generators & weapon mounts on a Python and an Ody.

For example, BFAA is still effective against (slow) M6s.

I tend to count M6s in with the 'anti-fighter' category since you're not likely to hit them with PPCs unless they they haven't noticed you.

[karl_1_marx]

Sorry for taking a bit to continue - RL interference

2 Types of Flak: Translation error, In German it's

Flak Cannon = A Flak
Flak Array / Battery = BFlak

Three types of PSG: This is where the great Difference versus X2-Flak lies. In X2 a/bPSG were severely stronger than in X3, which made the Orinoko and Perseus the strongest M3s in the game. Has been totally nerfed for X3. They are so weak that I just omitted them. Plus I was a bit lazy: I just copy&pasted it from an earlier post.

Sadly the data omits a few other key facts.

The first is a PSG can, and often does, scores several hits on the same target with a single shot as the shockwave passes through it.

Well, I stated that in the text under the table...

The second is the shockwave carries a good bit past the stated range 1.44km. It's more like 2km and maybe beyond. To take full advantage of the GPSG's max effective range you need to toss in a BPAC or AHEPT into the turret cluster.

The carrying on point is fully true, but damage decreases then, too. And the trick with the PAC/HEPT addition is a very good one, which I will definitely try out. The given Range is the one where the wave starts IMHO or where it's at max damage.

Re. Flak bad vs. Capships: Does severe damage, too, but the Range is of course lousy. Still the damage remains. Only you can't dodge your opponents shots anymore. But I killed quite some XI-J's who happened to materialize next to me instead of in front of me with the Python's Flaks. Before they could jump...


Cheers
KarMa

[Carlo the Curious]

Thinking about it, I seem to remember that flaks have a blast radius associated with them as well, although it's pretty small.

Well, I stated that in the text under the table...

Not very clearly, I'm afraid - stating it's "Damage per time" doesn't mean much unless you say it actually can hit more than once in a single shot.

Some quick & dirty tests with 2 x GPSG vs a stationary K:
Shield dmg @ 2.5km - about 150Mj
Hull dmg @ 2.5km - 7,950
Shield @ 1km - about 660Mj
Hull dmg @ 1km - 34,500

whatever might be inferred from that (if anything).

Pro-PSG: Not so much hull damage initially, so some more blue ones afterwards.

GPSG fire trashes abandoned ships pretty badly, so I wouldn't say you end up with more caps overall.

[karl_1_marx]

Let's add some facts!

Code: Select all

____________!_Range_!_Dam(Hull)_!_Dam(Shield)_!_Shot/min
Flak cannon ! 1269m !    1687   !    10395    !   56
Flak array  ! 1516m !    2500   !    17325    !   56
gPSG        ! 1440m !     109   !     1996    !   76
gKyE.(4comp)! 4857m !    4500   !     7500    !   86

Damage is per Time

Data pinned from seizewell.de

Sure PSG hits multiple targets, but I never found more than 5 fighters in range...

Ca. 8 posts up.

I won't take the flak for being quoted incompletely.


Cheers
KarMa

[Carlo the Curious]

I won't take the flak for being quoted incompletely.

If you were refrring to my post...

I quoted the part I assumed you were referring to, as opposed to the part which had no apparent relevance to the point in question.

"hits multiple targets" means it can hit several ships, not that it can hit the same ship several times (at least, to me). You also then actually mention a number of targets rather than the same target being hit several times.