[Bonus Plugin] Group Management System (GMS)

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jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 6. Oct 07, 09:26

s9ilent wrote:What happens if the lead ship dies? Does the group just appoint the next ship as a new lead?
Exactly that. In fact the stock "ship formation" logic of the game does that (formation leadership inheritance) already, but the GMS makes sure that the new leader really runs the GMS-leader command with proper GMS-variables.

One exception though. If an escort of group leader is not escorting the leader at the time of leader's death, then it will be a bit "orphan". But as long as you have your Group act as a group, you have no worries.

ZingFreelancer
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Post by ZingFreelancer » Sun, 7. Oct 07, 23:26

I am like shit new to this game, but have been trying as hard as I can and now even run own complex of 6 facilitys, but I got a problem with this script.

I run it on a Centaur and there is 6 more centaurs, every one is idle in space, no one doing nothing. So I set 6 ships to be in group (I have like 5 centaurs) what happens is that the centuar I run it on become leader and nothing els happens with every one els. I am greatly confused and hope some one can tell me why it happens. I also tryed to unnistal it but it did not work.
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frenchywinbig
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a little help

Post by frenchywinbig » Wed, 17. Oct 07, 22:52

finally getting my head around grouping, thanks to every1s helpful posts, but 2 things bugging me....

1. so whats the best way to sort the problem of the lead ship changing to attack all enimies?? (be much better if it went to idle, or to gather resorces..for jump drive n MD e.c.t

2. if there is a fighter set into a group of trading ships, and the fighter is set to protect leader, will he protect the whole group??? if not how can this be achieved.

oh ye, as regards to point 1, if a ship is selected to use navigation overide system (NOS) will it not refuse the attack all enimies command and steer clear of those pirate b******s. (easy solution maby?)

oh, by the way i have no space in my additional commands slots (only 2?) and i think im right in thinking the EMP (extended mod pack) adds more command slots?? but im scarred to do this cause last time it caused errors and i had to uninstall/reinstall and i lost my save games. i think after i read "need to uninstall all scripts and mods first" (cant remeber)

ooh yes one more thing, if ships/groups are attacked and they have drones, will they automatically launch them? if not can this be made possible?
thanks for your time cheers frenchy


p.s i no this is the wrong thread (sorry) but im hearing things about vannila that make it seem likes theres extra mods and scripts in there?? i assumed that vanila was a way of switching between modded/unmodded games?? am i right?

sorry for asking so much stuff but at least it will all be on 1 reply(hopefully) making life a little bit easyer for those trying to find answers to all these questions.

jlehtone
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Re: a little help

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 18. Oct 07, 08:51

frenchywinbig wrote:1. so whats the best way to sort the problem of the lead ship changing to attack all enimies?? (be much better if it went to idle, or to gather resorces..for jump drive n MD e.c.t
The one who shoots first has the best chance of survival, both IS and OOS. Therefore the "Attack all" is a sensible default.


"Protect formation leader" is the standard stock command. It attacks the attackers of the leader. Period.
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frenchywinbig
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cheers

Post by frenchywinbig » Thu, 18. Oct 07, 23:43

fair play...but i havent got much of an empire at the moment, with just two m4 fighters protecting two TP ships, not brill i no no but everyones godda start sumwhere.
so if i was set to attack all enimies id probly get blown to pieces. and it seems pirates always attack me.
but sounds a good option when im better prepared.

any advice on my my other questions?

cheers for the advice much appreciated frenchy

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moggy2
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Post by moggy2 » Fri, 19. Oct 07, 00:21

there are 2 ways to prevent the leader starting Attack all enemies.

1) don't let the leader stop without a command in open space. this is rather sensible thing to do anyway. If you want the ship to stay still in open space use the Standby command.

2) write a script that changes the local variable group.defaultcmd on the ship.

the reason it uses attack all enemies as the default command is that it's usually combat ships that are left to their own devices in open space.


I'm not entirely sure whether a fighter protecting a group will protect the whole group. I suspect not.

TS class ships will use drones if attacked.

You can't add more command slots. EMP adds more commands but not more slots. you can only have 2 ship commands running at a time. You'll have to decide which ones you really want to use if you have more.

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Fri, 19. Oct 07, 06:10

moggy2 wrote:you can only have 2 ship commands running at a time.
Two "Auxiliary". Aren't they slots 10 and 11? And then the Primary command in slot 0. For these three slots one can stop the running command by selecting an another command (or 'None') in the same slot. This is what you normally do.

Ships do have other slots too, but one would need a helper command to list/start/stop scripts on them. Such helper is not trivial, I guess. (Active SE does show running scripts in ship details, but that is read-only.) Some primary commands do run background helper scripts in those unlisted slots already.


It is that GMS command in auxiliary slot that starts the "Attack all enemies" (and refuels when docked). One could stop it on the Lead (transport). But that might break some logical invariables at some point.


Watching combat with sector map open:
* lead of formation is hit -> whole formation flashes red
* escort is hit -> that escort and lead flash red

From that one might assume that SIGNAL_ATTACKED from leader is broadcasted to whole formation, but SIGNAL_ATTACKED from other member is merely unicasted to the leader. And I'm not at all certain about the latter. If it does, and the leader reacts, then its attack on the foe might cause retaliation against the leader, which would call in the rest of the formation. But transport lead probably does not react, and even if it does, by the time the formation reacts, the assaulted member is probably long gone.

And if we are talking OOS, that M4 probably dies from the first hit.
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Havner
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Post by Havner » Mon, 26. Nov 07, 02:51

I think there is a little bug. I've set my first group to number 0. In general it does work as it should with one exception. I cant reset GMS on Additional Ship Commands. It's greyed. I cant turn it off, do something with the ship and turn it on again. Even when GMS is turned on a ship and you enter Additional Commands you see its inactive.

Works perfectly for group number >=1. It wasn't mentioned that group cant have number 0 so I'm reporting it.

Other thing I've found not working is the '-null' special name. It disbands the group but doesn't reset ship names to stock ones. They got the same name as before setting the group so it doesn't differ from '-unset' for me.

EDIT: Additionally I think that this pack should provide normal command "Attack target of..." (with Fight Soft MK2) to be used by hand and be accessible without unsigned scripts as it is already implemented here.

spoidz
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Post by spoidz » Sat, 8. Dec 07, 07:09

moggy2,

I received some feedback from a separate post on Multi-sector patrols. I was wondering if this is correct and is a disclaimer for GMS? I didn't read anything in this thread in similar vein.
spoidz wrote:
I'm trying to finally set up some substantial multi-sector patrols and need some basic answers on how they fly their routes. I'm using Group Management Software to keep the wingmen with the leader. Giving only the leader the patrol command.
Carl Sumner wrote:
Don't use other advanced commands on the wingmen for a Patrol leader. It will be erased automatically, but might leave behind stuff that interferes with the automatic commands. Cool

Give them "Protect" commands on the leader ship. When the leader is given the Patrol command it will automatically set the wingmen up as needed.
Basically, is there any prohibition to using GMS groups for Multi-Sector patrols? Or must they only be manual set-up?

Thanks

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moggy2
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Post by moggy2 » Sat, 8. Dec 07, 07:22

the patrols give all the wingmen the command "Attack Target of..." so that all ships attack the leaders target. This is the mos effective way to operate a group OOS.

I don't know what happens if you use GMS to change some of the wingmen to other commands. In any case, it doesn't overwrite anything that GMS uses so if you stop using the ships in a patrol GMS will continue to act normally.

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 8. Dec 07, 09:43

IIRC, the Patrol command does not inherit properly on death of the Patrol ship (only the lead ship runs the Patrol command, but commands anyone in formation with it). Thus, dead leader leaves followers in 'None' state. This is obvious, as on signal_killed, the ship inheriting the formation leadership would start running the command of its former leader. However, this new ship does not have sectorlist/waypoints, and inheritance does not pass them. Thus, the new ship cannot run Patrol, and ends up in 'None'.

GMS will not help on the inheritance part, but will kick the 'None' to 'Attack all'. That is pretty much the only benefit of running GMS on patrol. Consumes CPU-time, unless one plans to regularly lose patrol leaders. :wink:
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spoidz
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Post by spoidz » Sat, 8. Dec 07, 15:12

Okay thanks, I sorta understand,

It just seemed easier to build a patrol group with GMS and then use it to patrol. I had no intention to give the wingmen any further commands, they would simply GMS "follow" the Lead as "he" patrolled.

I don't have an issue if dead leader kicks out the patrol, I'm checking their status routinely to see if they idle for too long.

Otherwise, am I hearing wrong, that GMS was more intended for use of groups with Player versus autonomous operations (other than acting as a group).

I guess I'll have to check the same issues when XfreakCartman releases his final FCSMk3.

For me at least the main thing I was hoping these categories of scripts would do was improve the capabilities of patrols, I hadn't really planned on using them in my own IIS or hands-on OOS battles.

Thanks again for all

Jsimbo1
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Post by Jsimbo1 » Fri, 21. Dec 07, 15:40

ok this may be a really stupid question but is GMS a script that you have to download seperately from the bonus pack or should it automitically appear with the pack installed because i have the bonus pack and have been plauing for ages but have never come across the GMS even tho i have looked for it exhaustively. i have several carrier groups with large fighter wings and i badly need the GMS to save time, how do you get it? it doesnt appear in the commands menu even with every bit of software in the universe installed in my ship.
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beastytech
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Noob questions about GMS

Post by beastytech » Thu, 10. Jan 08, 02:06

A Couple of questions...

1. I spent ages building a Carrier with 40 Fighters, docked them all then began to create a group. When active in the carrier i created a group assigning 40 followers to it. When i completed the process EVERY fighter including the Carrier were tagged as LEAD. How can I remove this and start from scratch.

From reading i see the best thing to to if to get them all to work would be to undock all my ships... set them to follow my carrier then recreate the group while they are following or protecting my carrier correct? But how do i remvoe the group first?

2. If I am active in the carrier and i select my Group 1 to Attack Target or Protect Me or whatever... will they Undock and do what they are told? I noticed you said the Dock command is a Dock @ Target command... I'm a bit of a n00b and i will test later but can you target yourself if you are in a carrier so they will dock at 'Me'???

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Sandalpocalypse
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Post by Sandalpocalypse » Thu, 10. Jan 08, 02:19

issue the setup group command and type -u as the name, then put anything for the other fields. that will unset the group.

are you sure you want all 40 fighters in one group? That could get a bit clumsy. In my opinion, GMS is better suited for more precise control. If you have forty fighters of the same type in a carrier you may want to look into something like Anarkis Carrier Commands.

beastytech
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Post by beastytech » Thu, 10. Jan 08, 03:16

Excellent... thanks for the -u command... If I do a -u though, would that not remove All Groups that I have created???

Thanks for advice on the Carrier addon too I will try that out. Does that mean this GMS works better with smaller Patrol groups or groups where Wingmen usually Protect or Follow the leader without docking?

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Sandalpocalypse
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Post by Sandalpocalypse » Thu, 10. Jan 08, 16:05

-u will only apply to that group

Ships on Protect, Follow, and Attack my Target will dock where the leader docks.

Using all 40 fighters in one GMS group means that all 40 fighters can only do one thing. The idea is that you can control squadrons by issuing orders to only one fighter, but you lose any flexibility if you're ordering around *all* your ships that way at once.

Some feedback myself: I've been using GMS with the Patrol command myself, and I've found only one significant issue: whenever the Patrol command sends a ship to the shipyard for repairs, GMS will near-instantly send it back to its patrol leader.

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Thu, 10. Jan 08, 20:27

Sandalpocalypse wrote:Some feedback myself: I've been using GMS with the Patrol command myself, and I've found only one significant issue: whenever the Patrol command sends a ship to the shipyard for repairs, GMS will near-instantly send it back to its patrol leader.
Knowing how Patrol works and how GMS works, that is rather elementary:

Patrol runs only on the leader, but issues commands to its followers. When follower is damaged, it gets "Dock at ..". But at that point the follower is no longer following the Patrol ship. Thus, it reverts to 'None' after docking. Player is informed though, and player must make the ship follow the patrol again.

But the GMS runs on every ship of a group. And when it sees the ship in 'None', it issues default command to the ship. That is either "Protect" or "Attack_same", depending on whether you used that other General GMS command. Either way the ship again follows the Patrol, and followers do as followers do.


@beastytech:
Fighters. In sector. Make groups of 5. Leave one to protect the Lead and rest (3) to Attack_same. Bigger groups spend too much time avoiding collisions. From 30 fighters you get 6 groups. These 6 (Lead) ships you can tell to do whatever you wish. The other 24 ships will support the Leads.
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beastytech
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Post by beastytech » Fri, 11. Jan 08, 04:15

Thanks... I went and used the other Carrier addon that was mentioned and it works great! I don't have any problems with using 40 ships they seem to annihilate anything in a sector and don't have much trouble in docking back into the ship either.

Thanks for all the help!

Mencius
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Post by Mencius » Tue, 19. Feb 08, 14:29

Hi Everyone, I posted this in the main forum but was advised this might be a better place to get some answers.

I am trying to set up a group for the 2 x M3+ fighters which I dock on my M7. I have got as far as going into the command console, setting up the fleet name, number and ship type. The fighters then show up as two different names with (1) after them (1 is the fleet number) so I assume I have succesfully set up the group. The 2nd fighter in the group, the one I added to the group while running the command on the leader, has as its orders "protect leader".

Now the problem: I go into controls and I add keybindings to select group 1 and for actions that I want them to perform. I save the changes and go back into the game. Then I press the key and.... nothing. Nothing happens. I've been trying to get this to work for maybe a week now and I can't seem to do anything about it.

Could someone enlighten me on why this might not be working?

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