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Thinking about the Khaak start....
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apricotslice





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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 07, 07:24    Post subject: Thinking about the Khaak start.... Reply with quote Print

This is a discussion thread to see if its really feasable to play as a Khaak.

I've tryed most things in this game, including the remove a race option, the pacifist option, the trader option, the complete bastard option, and the mogul option. And bits and pieces of other things in between.

So something someone said recently started me thinking about playing as a Khaak. The khaak start allows this, but it didnt have any support options to it, and just trying to survive is not my thing.

But the HQ changes everything, as it gives you a base.

So I was thinking about what you needed to really play the role of a khaak infiltrator, on the basis that the battlefleets were wasting odd sectors, but the policy behind them and the clusters wasnt really hurting the enemy very much. Hence you are sent in as an Infiltator to cause as much damage as you can, to as much of the x-universe as you can, accross all the races.

How to do this though ?

The khaak start gives you a fighter and some scouts (most of which get killed before you get your sorry arse to safety by all accounts).

I made a new start for my Apricot Mapping Service fairly easily, so making a new beginning should be simple.

I figured, if I can add in a "captured" TL, with an HQ inside it, to give me a working shipyard for myself, that I can use it to then make a fleet from, using the demolish ship at HQ script for resources.

However, there are some problems.

Money. If all the races hate you, where does money come from ? You cant sell capped ships or goods, and even if your HQ was set to sell, since everyone is an enemy (maybe except pirates), then no-one will buy anything and everyone will attack it on sight if you put it somewhere that can be seen.

I really dont want to leave one race as freindly as that doesnt make sense. Pirates and Xenon maybe, because they are doing my job as well, and while technically still the enemy, the enemy of my enemy is useful.

Nvidium. You would want to RE a Khaak M3 and then turn out as many Fighters as you could. One can add in a M1 to ferry them around, either "captured" or Khaak. But the problem is the Nvidium to make them. I'm not sure how much is needed per ship, but I'm sure its more than is available easily. One can add in a Nvid roid out in the boonies somewhere, and use the factory from Ashleys mod to put a factory on it, but keeping it stocked with ecells is going to be a major problem.

Kyons. How do you get these to put on the KM3's ? Unless you change the KM3 you use to mount any weapon at all, and use what you can pick up or out of wrecks before you trash them for materials. But that sort of defeats the object. Alternately, I guess one can always start with 5000 guns in stock.

Questions :

How do you activate the Khaak start ? I've forgotten.

How could you generate money when all the races hate you ? (possible exception of Pirates and Xenon, which leaves few trading possibilities).

Any better ideas for Nvidium and does anyone know what a KM3 needs to build it ?

What have I forgotten about in playing a Khaak that everyone hates ?


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Last edited by apricotslice on Fri, 27. Apr 07, 10:19; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 07, 08:13    Post subject: Re: Thinking about the Khaak start.... Reply with quote Print

apricotslice wrote:
Money. If all the races hate you, where does money come from ? You cant sell capped ships or goods, and even if your HQ was set to sell, since everyone is an enemy (maybe except pirates), then no-one will buy anything and everyone will attack it on sight if you put it somewhere that can be seen.


I would argue that it's perfectly within the bounds of possibility that the Teladi might buy and sell from you. They buy and sell from EVERYBODY, and it's also possible they haven't been as heavily affected by Kha'ak attacks as the Paranid and Argon have. The problem there, of course, is that it's extremely difficult to raise your Teladi rank from rock bottom!

Incidentally, NPC traders really don't give a monkey's about your reputation--they'll dock at your stations if there's a deal to be had (and you let them do so, of course). This is, in fact, about the only way to raise Teladi rank from the bottom--to get their traders to dock at your stations!

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drunk weasel





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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 07, 08:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Have'nt got to play the khaak start yet but I would've hoped that they made use of the khaak stations in their sectors and given your khaak ships the ability to use jumpdrive with no energy cells just a recharge time. That would be a very cool thing rather than just an afterthought as it sounds like it is at the moment. How long are you going to play when you're hostile to everything and cant dock anywhere?

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Dave Toome
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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 07, 09:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Quote:
The khaak start gives you a fighter and some scouts (most of which get killed

I found it quite easy to keep them all, but then docked them & never used them

Quote:
where does money come from

Initially from selling plundered ships goods to pirate stations.
You then need to pick at least one race to be freindly with,
I chose Paranid, killed pirates & Argon in their space (while avoiding their police) = rep increase,
so then at rep level 'neutral your cash comes from capturing & selling large freighters & medium fighters,
after that you're into the standard economy of building complexes.

Quote:
Kyons. How do you get these to put on the KM3's

If you're going to use Ashley's then there are bKyon factories available, otherwise nada

Quote:
How do you activate the Khaak start ? I've forgotten.

Several threads give the registry key 'activation set', would probably be best to do a search.

Quote:
Any better ideas for Nvidium and does anyone know what a KM3 needs to build it ?

Nividium roids only exist in Khaak space, (unless you script one in)
so you'll obviously then need a jumpdrive & even then I found the main Khaak race
doesn't stay friendly to you in their own sectors for very long.


HQ RE requirements chart:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=1908686


Quote:
What have I forgotten about in playing a Khaak that everyone hates ?

How long it take to get a major ship (legitimately), even with race-donations for rep,
I've only last night got my fully Odysseus (with all the Pandora upgrades on it Very Happy )
after 11 game days (on & off)



Teladi are the hardest to increase rep with,
you need to kill Yaki & Xenon patrols (and Khaak) in their sectors.

If you're going to alter the premise of the game-start by 'adding a HQ', for REing
a KM3 fleet, then you might as well add a few other things as well Wink,
but anyway I think you'll outgrow KM3s & end up with some race or other's M1/M2 eventually anyway

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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 07, 09:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Good point about the traders. I'd assumed that if you were hostile to eveyone, the traders would fire on your station as well. But if they will trade with mimimal hassels, then money can be made from what you plunder.

Putting in an HQ covers the docking problem. Thats easy to do.

Maybe use 2 of them then. One is way off the beaten track, and you use it as a base, to make ships with, and the second is placed in a decent trader area and named "Honest Johns Trading Port", but in a non-owned sector. Maybe both in a pirate sector, with your actual base way out in the boonies.

The only problem I see then is that those ships with guns will attack you as you line up to dock at your own station. Docking computer makes that better though. Raw in at top speed and autodock. Undock and jump.

Is the Km1 and KM2 playable in X3, or are they the same bugged ships from X2 ? Would like to RE a KM1 and then build a few to make a big fleet of KM3's for sector takedowns. But not if all the km3's get destroyed trying to leave the Km1.

I guess i should ahve guessed he did a kyon factorys as well. Smile
I guess one should just put in a whole complex.

Thanks Smile


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apricotslice





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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 04:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Building KM3's :

How would one get engine tunings and rudder optimisations ? (assuming all races are enemy).

Can you add these to your HQ by one of the cheat scripts ? (and have them work and be restocked ?)

Worst case I guess is staying freinds with the pirates and being close to a pirate base.

Any other suggestions ?


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Flybye





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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 07:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Dave Toome wrote:
[......Nividium roids only exist in Khaak space, ....

Not true. I found several extrmemely weak Nividium roids with no scripting related to roids outside of Kha'ak space.

And I'm not posting a spoiler because the Kha'ak start is supposed to be that much harder Mr. Green

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apricotslice





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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 07:32    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

My intital comment stands. There isnt enough nvidium around outside of khaak space to build a fleet from. Where what little there is, doesnt really matter, since it inst enough.


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drunk weasel





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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 10:43    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

As I say its just been tagged on as an after thought with no real modification to the game to make it worth while. There is definitely room to make a decent khaak start seeing as they do have stations in their sectors but to have a khaak start where you have to be friendly with at least one race when you're supposed to be the most hostile in the galaxy is a bit daft. Give the player effectively a khaak police license which works anywhere in the universe and that would give you the ability to get credits which could be spent at the existing khaak stations which could act as shipyards and equipment docks. Would give you the feel of being an actual Khaak raider rather than just a weird start for a normal game.

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apricotslice





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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 10:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nice idea.

How would you script it ? Would it need to change an existing script or could a custom script be written ? If anyone can do this, let me know. I dont wnat to discuss scripting here, but knowing it could be done would help the discussion. My guess is that part is hardcoded anyway. Or someone would ahve changed the existing bounties to be more realistic.

A bounty from the Khaak government on every kill made (bonus for paranid kills) would solve some of the money problem for sure.


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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 11:03    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Its always infuriating to have ideas about games where its impossible to do unless the game makers themselves do it in the next patch or sequel. With X's modders there's always a chance it could happen which is great unless like you say its hard coded. Would love the Khaak M3 to have a squadron jumpdrive too, that way you could jump any wingmen and capped ships back to Khaak space for disposal at the shipyard for more cash. Ahhhhh...... The power of dreams lol.

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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 12:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Flybye wrote:
Dave Toome wrote:
[......Nividium roids only exist in Khaak space, ....

Not true. I found several extrmemely weak Nividium roids with no scripting related to roids outside of Kha'ak space.

And I'm not posting a spoiler because the Kha'ak start is supposed to be that much harder Mr. Green


Ummm. Yes. A total of 3? Or are there more? And what a sector! Wink

You could always use the Asteroid Creator to place a high-grade asteroid conveniently close to you once you get going. Costs a bit, though. Smile


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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 12:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Emre Yigit wrote:
You could always use the Asteroid Creator to place a high-grade asteroid conveniently close to you once you get going. Costs a bit, though. Smile


Laughing

Err.....No Smile

If I do that, I'll mod one in and it wont cost me anything Smile

Actually, within this senario, the asteroid creator would not be available I think, given as its something the enemy uses. I dont recall the details of it fully, but I doubt a khaak could legitimately have access to it. Unless they stole the whole process and then it still wouldnt cost anything Smile


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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 14:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

[quote="Emre Yigit......Ummm. Yes. A total of 3?........[/quote]
I found 4 Mr. Green

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PostPosted: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 14:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Flybye wrote:
Dave Toome wrote:
[......Nividium roids only exist in Khaak space, ....

Not true. I found several extrmemely weak Nividium roids with no scripting related to roids outside of Kha'ak space.

Couple "on the map" rocks are around. Low yield, but those do respawn. Thus, with time a fleet could be build. Additionally, there are small Nividium rocks here and there. Now idea how many and how much do they yield in total. Still, hard to gather.

And one must ask if mining them is "in character".

Raider and infiltrator are different. One destroys outright, the other pretends to be friendly in order to get better access to enemy vitals.

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