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apricotslice





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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 03:48    Post subject: Current Bugs and Issues List Reply with quote Print

(CBJ response at the bottom of the List).

Now that the ctd issues have been resolved, as someone who has been waiting for 4 months for gameplay bug fixes which never come, I think its high time Egosoft turned its attention to the gameplay bugs and issues that are frustrating so many people.

So here is the list of bugs and issues still in the game, which we collectively think that Egosoft should now address as a matter of urgency.

This is a list of GAMEPLAY bugs and issues.

Add something new to the thread, and I will add it to the list. If something is fixed in a patch, say so. If something is fixed in a script, its not yet fixed in the game imo. Please make sure that the bug or issue is still present in 1.4.02 before posting.

If you still ahve a technical problem, DONT post it here, but in tech support where it belongs. This is purely about bugs and issues in the gameplay, nothing else.

CBJ response here and at the bottom of this posting : http://forum2.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=1612653#1612653

BUGS :

1. Auto-pilot crashes player ship into asteroids.
The AP avoids far too radically far too late. Avoidance should be recognised 5km earlier at least, and be a maximum of 20% turn. It should also slow the speed dramatically if needed. And the turn should not be towards another solid object. Half the collisions are because the AP turned into another roid and couldnt avoid that one.
2. Auto-Pilot crashes AI controlled ships. Same problem. But with Capital ships, the need for STOP-TURN-MOVE while going through sectors is essential. The auto-pilot should also head a ship out of the asteroid plane first, then plot a course to the target.
2A Auto-pilot crashes a ship into the target it was told to attack, circles for a long time then rams the target again. And repeat until destroys itself.
3. "Your ship ..... was destroyed by asteroid" when you are oos. This is impossible, yet reports of it continue to be made.
4. "Your ship .... was destroyed in sector ....." No Reason given. At the very least, a reason must be specified.
5. Ships destroyed because they are docked at a station being destroyed by the God Engine. All ships should be undocked FIRST.
6. Claimed ships vanish. Apparent God Engine problem.
7. Bought ships vanish. Also thought to be GE, but not as common as claimed ships going missing.
8. Orca rear turrent not working for Player ship.
9. Bartering not existant for high rank players. Low ranked players never have enough rank to barter.
10. BBS missions do not show your rank and the rank required for the mission. (Being insulted all the time is NOT acceptable).
11. Bartering should also list the rank required for it.
12. Hulls of stations in a complex are 50% or less immediately after adding to the complex and the hulls cannot be repaired.
13. Hull damage to stations by enemy ships cannot be repaired because the complex hub is undamaged and that is the only entity selectable in the nav map.
14. Lasertowers fire directly into stations while IS combat is taking place.
15. Increase the range of the tractor beam to make it more stable with Ore Mines. Minimum 5km range is recommended, its 2km now. Allow the tractor beam to tow ships.
16. TL and M1 MUST be able to dock freighters. If not internally, then externally. M2 should also be able to dock a freighter for e-cell resupply. I consider this a bug, not an issue.
17. Tractor Beams unfindable. More stations making them, and immediate stocks to a wide coverage of EQ docks.
18. Capital ships need to be able to jump into a sector as a group of ships, not one at a time. Preferrably gateless jumping. Jumping one ship at a time is tacticalal stupidity and just gets the first ships killed for no reason.
19. Remote mining collection is not possible without extreme risk of hitting something fatally. OOS collection is the only safe way. Fix this by using the transporter device and ore collector to beam the rocks into a stationery ship. Move the ship safely to safe collection points and stop it before continuing collection.
20. Collect wares in sector command AP will endlessly circle a ware at top speed and never collect it. Especially in the player ship. Stop ship, beam all collectable objects in range into the cargo hold, then move to another safe place to beam objects aboard.
21. All ships almost collide with the docking arms when leaving, except the player ship, which backs out if left alone. The larger ships sideswipe the dock or other ships leaving. All ships should back out to the end of the landing lights, before flipping or turning. Much better in 1.4 but still needs work.
22. Khaak or Xenon bail outs do not have an eva pilot afterwards. We do wish to enslave or shoot them !
23. When you add a new station to a complex, all the prices the player has set get reset to default values.
24. The L and the Manta and I beleive Dolphins incorrectly dock with stations, these are clipping issues not the ability to dock itself. Other ships may be affected.
25. Teladi and Argon Trading Docks still have high casualty auto pilot crashes. Ships try to fly through them and not around if they start on the opposit side of the stations docking bay.
26. Although the UT and ST are smarter about dealing with cargo they cannot sell, now they end up cluttering their cargo bay without notifying the player untill they have no cargo bay left to clutter. Solved if they check for profit in there own cargo before buying new stuff.
27. Sell best/buy best freighter AI needs improvement to stop more than 1 freighter going to the same station at the same time. If unable to sell or buy, it should go direct to the next choice station, not back to homebase first.
29. When player race relations is set differently to global race relations, the player race relations are overwritten by the global every time the players exits or enters a ship.
30. Accidental fire on freindly turns them red far to quickly. Made worse in poor framerate situations where the fire actually went knowwhere near the freindly.
31. Remove homebase ability missing.
32. OOS Combat should at least approximate the IS combat result. Instead, it appears completely opposite. Setup a ship for IS combat, it is destroyed easily in oos combat and vise versa. Eg. PPC oos wins against everything. PPC IS cant hit anything smaller than an M6. LT's oos can take 10 minutes to kill a 6 ship Pirate patrol, yet when you jump IS, the same LT's will destroy the patrol in 20 seconds. Oos, you lose at least one LT every time attacked. Is, the shields are barely dented. At least balance this so that one gunload has the same basic outcome in oos and is.
33. Paranid Demeter Super Freighter from Trinity Sanctum - wrong model being used; can not be piloted by the player due to graphic bug.
34. If you get promoted during a jump drive count down in either trade or fighting - the spinning medal comes onto screen - bottom left hand corner. You jump and you have a frozen medal on screen that you can not get rid of. Requires loading a save game prior to the promotion.
35. Caiman bridge offset is about 10m above the ship so if you go into a docked Caiman, the viewpoint is in the docking clamp.
36. On, some eq docks, docking clamps are doubled up (ie 5 pairs of 2), if 2 large ships are attached to adjoining clamps then you are guranteed a ship being destroyed if in sector when undocking. Quote "I've watched the fin pass right through the EQ Dock when 'the player' is not driving and nothing happens. BUT if you are driving 'BOOM'. " Unquote.




ISSUES

1. Allow seta while docked or allow freight transfer oos.
2. Limitations on where a UT is allowed to go, to avoid unsafe sectors.
3. 1gj shielding for Lasertowers. Even 125mj shields are inadequate in X3. Allow for shield upgrading. Allow for LT factories to use different sheilds up to 1gb.
4. Player HQ. EVERYONE STILL WANTS ONE.
5. Defense Platforms to replace the inadequate Lasertowers and the need for hundreds of them in a sector. Preferably a station that can be linked to a complex as a fixed complex defense, using the missiles and guns produced by the complex (if any).
6. Player EQ dock and Trading station to trade with NPC traders.
7. ADD STATION TO COMPLEX command. AI places station automatically in the best possible place, with the minimum of tubing. Player complexes should look like AI complexes, not spagetti with meatballs, regardless of how many stations are linked. ALTERNATIVELY remove proximity damage for stations in a complex so they can be placed virtually on top of each other without blowing up. The interface allows this already, but they just blow up.
8 Decent race response to Khaak Battlefleets. Its not fair on the early player to be wiped out by KM2's when the race sector defenses do nothing. Adjacent sector defenders should respond the same way Pirates do.
9. Remove all roids from the space lanes between gates. Now that the tractor beam is available, there is no logic to roids remaining as a danger to the space shipping lanes.
10. All wares should be buyable in bulk. The fact that they are fitted to a ship is not relevant. This is especially true of Jumpdrive and transporter device, but also includes ALL software. Only the cargo bay, speed and rudder enhancements should require an individual ship to visit a station. Everything else should be buyable in bulk and fitted from your EQ dock or TL or in a complex hub from ship to ship transfer.
11. Group naming at purchase time. Buy 10 ships, name them all in 1 command with only a automatically applied number difference in the name between ships.
12. Fleet management is totally inadequate when you get above a single screen of ships in the property menu.
13. The menu interface is too clunky and way too slow to find anything in time to save it when attacked. Redesign it the same way current web designers do them, with mouse over popup on the hud. Better still, put all player ships as an icon on the hud and mouse over to give orders. When more than 20, the icons become group icons.
14. Claiming ships is SALVAGE, not piracy, so system override software should be legal and bought from the Teladi. Piracy is forcing a pilot to bail out by shooting at him, which is illegal and should get an immediate police response according to race relations. Pirates/xenon/khaak - none/thankyou from anyone saved. Boron in Argon space, immediate police attack on you if witnessed in scanner range of one police ship. Paranid in Argon space, warning that its not acceptable behaviour (but officially ignored). etc.
15. Giant space station instead of sprawling complexes.
16. For pity sake put Suzie out of our misery !
17. Update the station announcements and bbs messages. The old X2 stuff has worn extremely thin.
18. More bbs missions available. All ranks below you available, not just your rank and higher. Less irrelevant bbs postings.
19. Player ships use jump drive when fitted. % of NPC traders also should do so.
20. No decent tutorial.


FIXED OR PROGRESS MADE

1. Node CTD. Fixed in 1.4.02 patch.
2. Auto-Pilot improved by 1.4 patch, but issues remain.
28. Xenon L loads the wrong Bpbe. Its using the Goner version. Appears fixed by 1.4 or 1.4.02.

----------------------
Thankyou to CBJ for the following response :

CBJ wrote:
Here's a quick review of the points raised. "Bug" lists like this are all very well, but mixing up opinions with actual bug reports it makes it much less likely to be read, and much more difficult for testers to pick out things that might actually need looking into.

The most important difference to note is between a game not working as it was intended to work, and not working as you would like it to work or think it should work. The former is a bug and belongs here, the latter is a matter of opinion and, no matter how strongly you hold that opinion, belongs in the general forum (for discussion) or the DevNet ideas forum (for the developers to read, see the note at the end of this post).

1, 2, 2A, 19, 20, 21, 25. These are a lot harder to fix than you seem to think. If avoidance is extended to such a large distance then in busy sectors ships will be pretty much unable to find any route. There is no such thing as an "asteroid plane" for ships to turn out of. All that having been said, there is of course, always scope for improvement in this area.

3, 4, 5. Yes, the first is impossible and I've seen no confirmation from testers of this happening. Ships that are destroyed with no reason given are presumably the ones docked at stations destroyed by the GOD engine.

6, 7. I've seen several reports but no confirmation from testers.

8, 24, 33, 35, 36. Model issues. I believe most or all of these have been reported.

9, 11, 12, 13, 23, 28, 29, 36. These may be bugs, but testers would have to confirm.

10, 15. Not a bug, a feature request.

14. Not a bug. The lasertower fires on the assumption that it is going to hit its target, not miss and hit whatever is behind. If it didn't work like this then you could simply sit between it and the station and be immune from attack.

16. Not a bug, a design decision. Sorry, but just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it a bug.

17. Not necessarily a bug. Who said Tractor Beams were supposed to be easy to find? As long as they don't go completely missing (which has I believe happened to a few people) then this is fine.

18. Not a bug, and not even a practical suggestion. Mutliple capital ships cannot emerge from a gate simultaneously due to space. Tactics simply have to take this into account.

22. Not a bug. Xenon ships are AI entities so they don't have pilots. Kha'ak presumably don't wear space-suits and therefore explode when they eject (or something).

26, 27. Intelligence of upgrade software is always going to have limitations. If it were perfect then there would be little point in playing the game as you could just leave the AI to get on with it!

30. Not a bug. There has to be a balance between turning red too soon and leaving it too long and being unrealistically forgiving. The game has no way of knowing whether your friendly fire is intentional or not, and the current balance is as good as it is likely to get.

31. More of a quirk than a bug. You can remove the homebase by getting into the ship. You could always explain this with some in-game fiction, such as clearing homebase settings requiring manual override with biometric control to prevent pirates from taking over unmanned ships.

32. OOS combat has to draw a fine line between accurate simulation and performance. Balancing so that the outcome is the same as in-sector for every case without grinding the universe to a halt is nigh-on impossible. As with many areas, there is always scope for improvement, but don't expect miracles.

34. Confirmed bug, but very difficult to reproduce and therefore very difficult to fix.

All of your "issues" are all actually feature requests, and as such belong in the DevNet ideas forums (with the usual caveat of making sure you follow the strict posting rules carefully).



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Lethal Mitch



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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 03:59    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Not that really important but just one that annoys me is the Nova Sentinel from LOH. It used to have 4x25mw shields and now it has only 3x25mw.
Just doesn't make sense considering its purchase price compared to other Nova's.

Also fixed was the view from the Demeter SF 11200 cargo. Now I can fly the thing again. Smile

I agree with the rest in your list apricot but wonder about your request to allow SETA while docked. Why would this help anything?

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apricotslice





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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 04:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Lethal Mitch wrote:
I agree with the rest in your list apricot but wonder about your request to allow SETA while docked. Why would this help anything?


Its the freight transfer issue.

You have to be docked at a station with a ship to transfer goods accross. Unless you use transporter or drop and ahve them pick up, you ahve to dock somewhere.

Many people get sick of waiting for a plodding freighter to join them at the RV station. It makes no sense that seta should not be available for this, since the player is sitting there doing nothing while waiting for the other ship or ships to arrive. Seta being what I consider the easy fix.

However, the better fix is allow station based freight transfer between all player ships while oos.


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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 04:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The ability to buy upgrades in bulk, eg triplex scanners, jumpdrives.

The ability to name ships in groups - say I buy 10 Novas for a patrol, I want to name them Patrol Nova 1-10 or whatever without doing it individually.

TLs and M1s to have the ability to dock 1 freighter externally for resupply, even if they have to come to a complete stop first.

That's all I can think of for now.

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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 04:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ah! Now I get you and agree totally. Bloody freight transfer gives me a headache a lot of the time to say the least.

Another thing you might consider adding to the list is the total lack of tractor beams.

I didn't buy one when I first noticed them and now I can't get one for love nor money anywhere. I have played hard for 3 days and there hasn't been any and I am sure of this as I ran a script to check. The script that found the factory origionally, that has since disappeared. Maybe its just my game so maybe others might confirm this. I will keep on checking all the same.

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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 04:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Buy in bulk - check.
Freight docking at cap ships - check.
Rename group of ships on purchase - check.
More tractor beams - check.


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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 04:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Might I add yet again but with a bit more thought this time......

1. Better fleet management orders. With X3 being a more fleet oriented game, the current fleet orders aren't adequate to control a fleet of ships i.e from a carrier.

2. Jumping of capital ships at the same time is impossible. I assigned an M1 to protect me in my M2 and jumped into a Xenon sector. Result was we both blew up when we arrived together.

3. TL's should be able to dock freighters, it's just silly that they can't.

4. M1's should have some docking capacity, not just for resupply but so you can get onboard the thing easier.

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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 05:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

apricotslice wrote:
Its the freight transfer issue.

You have to be docked at a station with a ship to transfer goods accross. Unless you use transporter or drop and ahve them pick up, you ahve to dock somewhere.

Many people get sick of waiting for a plodding freighter to join them at the RV station...

Hint: Another way is to instruct the freighter to dock, and set "Inform me when command finished" to "yes" lower down in the command menu. Then do something else until the freighter has finished. You will get an incoming message telling you the freighter is waiting, and an option to give it more commands straight from the message!


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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 05:24    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

apricotslice wrote:
Freight docking at cap ships - check.

Ummm.... Falcon Haulers carry XL wares - and can dock with M1s.

But the inability to dock anything with M2s is annoying. I am sure, however, that a capship supply script that uses the transporter device will come along any moment now.


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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 05:26    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Added mobile mining and collect wares bugs.

Plus some other stuff, including .....

16. For pity sake put Suzie out of our misery !


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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 06:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

"Bugs"
Quote:
5. Ships destroyed because they are docked at a station being destroyed by the God Engine. All ships should be undocked FIRST.


Some (most) of the stations destroyed by the God Engine are due to "natural disasters" or "sudden catastrophic failures". Things of that nature would destroy any ships docked, although there should be a small chance that some might survive, albit damaged in some way. This just adds some "life" to the universe.

Quote:
6. Claimed ships vanish. Apparent God Engine problem.

Never had a ship I've successfully claimed disappear in any of the multiple games I've played. Sure they weren't destroyed? If you're referring to a ship that has ejected but you haven't claimed yet, it probably caught a stray blast and was destroyed.

Quote:
10. BBS missions do not show your rank and the rank required for the mission. (Being insulted all the time is NOT acceptable).

I'm pretty sure they say in the title of the BBS message what rank is required...Or that could have been from X2. Why should the message say what rank you are? You can easily check your statistics and then go back to the BBS if you aren't sure.

Quote:
12. Hulls of stations in a complex are 50% or less immediately after adding to the complex and the hulls cannot be repaired.

Must be something you're doing wrong then (probably placing them too close together). Only time I've ever heard of this happening is when two stations are touching when complexed. They will continue to take damage until one of them is destroyed. I've connected and disconnected many stations and never had one taking damage just for the hell of it.

Quote:
14. Lasertowers fire directly into stations while IS combat is taking place.

That would be due to the LT being too close to the station and it trying to shoot at something through the station. Not a bug or an issue, just need to place them a few k farther away.

Quote:
16. TL and M1 MUST be able to dock freighters. If not internally, then externally. M2 should also be able to dock a freighter for e-cell resupply. I consider this a bug, not an issue.

There are several script that remedy this.
[SCRIPT] (FSUP) Fleet Support Ship software by Xai Corporation
[Script] CisorTech Dynamic Bay Configuration - Update V1.2 25/01/2006
And others. There are at approximately 10 scripts that either allow TS/TP to dock at cap ships, or provide methods to automate freight transfer.
This is not a bug, or an issue. It was a design decision by the developers.

Quote:
20. Collect wares in sector command AP will endlessly circle a ware at top speed and never collect it. Especially in the player ship. Stop ship, beam all collectable objects in range into the cargo hold, then move to another safe place to beam objects aboard.

Only ever seen this happen when using a very fast ship and having SETA on. Either use a slower ship, don't use SETA, or do it manually.



"Issues"

Quote:
1. Allow seta while docked or allow freight transfer oos.

See [SCRIPT] (RTD) Remote Transporter Device command by Xai Corporation

Quote:
2. Limitations on where a UT is allowed to go, to avoid unsafe sectors.

See [Script] AStar Pathfinder v1.3 (Mar 3)
and [Script] Satilite Limited MK3 Universal Trader, ready for download.

Quote:
8 Decent race response to Khaak Battlefleets. Its not fair on the early player to be wiped out by KM2's when the race sector defenses do nothing. Adjacent sector defenders should respond the same way Pirates do.

AL Plugin : X3 Race Response Fleets v1.5 2/4/06

Quote:
10. All wares should be buyable in bulk. The fact that they are fitted to a ship is not relevant. This is especially true of Jumpdrive and transporter device, but also includes ALL software. Only the cargo bay, speed and rudder enhancements should require an individual ship to visit a station. Everything else should be buyable in bulk and fitted from your EQ dock or TL or in a complex hub from ship to ship transfer.

There is no valid reason to have this so for 99% of the wares. All ships can dock at EQs, so they can pick them up themselves. JumpDrives and Transporter Devices can just be transfered from another ship.

Quote:
13. The menu interface is too clunky and way too slow to find anything in time to save it when attacked. Redesign it the same way current web designers do them, with mouse over popup on the hud. Better still, put all player ships as an icon on the hud and mouse over to give orders. When more than 20, the icons become group icons.

That's already there. If you right (or left, forget which) click on the ship icon on the hud you can issue commands to it.


Regarding the AP. The more "intelligent" they make it, the more calculations it has to do, and the slower the game becomes. It is a tradeoff between accuracy and speed.

Cap ship jumping is due to both ships trying ot jump into pretty much the same place. "Two objects can not occupy the same space at the same time" (Forget where that quote is from) They need to move the jump exit point a random distance around the gate. There already is a script for gateless jumpdrive.
That one actually is a bug. Most of the rest are just complaints and whines.
Try actually checking all the scripts out there before saying something is broken. The developers have very little reason to implement something that is already provided sufficently in a script. The only thing they might do is work with the script author to get the script signed, but that is a very lengthy and strict process.


I think that's enough for now. (at least I managed to not get too annoyed this time)


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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 06:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

How 'bout the:

Every time I leave my ship the race response resets global settings.

After every cap I have to reset Boron and Paranid to FOE.

Everytime I dock at my TL and launch again.

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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 06:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Cr4Fty wrote:
How 'bout the:

Every time I leave my ship the race response resets global settings.

After every cap I have to reset Boron and Paranid to FOE.

Everytime I dock at my TL and launch again.


Youre TL probably has it's individual ones set for Boron and Paranid to Foe, or you're personal ship has them set that way, or you have a Boron/Paranid in that sector that you've annoyed. I had that happen once when I accidently pissed off a Race Response ship. I apologized to the specific ship, but some more jumped in just as I was leaving and they remained angry. After I left they then jumped to several different sectors, so I had to spend quite awhile looking for ships that were Red and go apologize to them individually.


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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 06:29    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Armegeddon wrote:
I think that's enough for now. (at least I managed to not get too annoyed this time)


Then I better not reply. Smile

Lets just say, that everything listed is my personal experience....

(every single station in my game is 50% or more damaged if you look at the manual target info - I have none that are not complexed - the hubs are the only thing 100% - I checked every one when I first found it - and its NOT a range issue)

....or something that repeatedly gets discussed in here as being a frustration or a problem. I'm just compiling the list.

Some of the devs decisions are just plain bizzare. I've listed them as bugs deliberately, since discussion usually thinks they are a bug, until someone mentions they are not. In a lot of cases the problems are because the implementation of a good idea is only half done, or they simply didnt test it to the extremes of the game before releasing it. (eg Tractor Beam, cant have been tested with moving an Ore Mine, since thats the only object that it buggers up on.) Well now its time they went back and addressed these issues in the light of hindsight by people who have played the issues into the extremes.

I'm ignoring scripts for this list because many people either cant use them, wont use them, or wont use particular ones for personal reasons. (eg. I wont use race response because of certain effects it describes that I do not want in my game.) I think its up to Egosoft to put permanent solutions to bugs in place. The fact that a partial solution has been scripted is not a reason for them to ignore it.

Damn, that was a reply - Err....I guess that was too much....did I upset you anyway ? Smile

If Egosoft want to run down the list and say "This is deliberate, it wont be changed", I will welcome that.

But if they say that for everything, it will be "Game Over".


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apricotslice





Joined: 16 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri, 14. Apr 06, 06:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Cr4Fty wrote:
Every time I leave my ship the race response resets global settings. After every cap I have to reset Boron and Paranid to FOE.


Can you expand on those 2 ? I ahvnet heard them before.


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