Testing methodology for comparable and quantifiable performance results

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MadBoris
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Testing methodology for comparable and quantifiable performance results

Post by MadBoris »

I've done the extensive tweaking and testing and the thing I've found missing on the boards is a way to compare apples to apples. I've come up with a testing methodology that reproduces fairly consistent results and would be comparable for other systems as well. Since Egosoft didn't provide a benchmarking tool(yet) which would reproduce results consistently, here is what I have come up with in the meanwhile that is relatively quick and easy so that people can actually compare meaningful fps numbers and see some decent result comparisons. One test is mainly CPU intensive and appears to be CPU limited or just poor optimization, the second actually shows some higher-end GPU impact.

How to get reproducible results for comparison:

Both tests use FRAPS with 'save detailed benchmark statistics' all checked.

Additionally, you must set FRAPS to stop benchmark automatically after 120 seconds.

Test1: Argon Prime (Highly CPU intensive)
Start FRAPS with settings mentioned above.
Start game with desired resolution and settings.
Start a 'Normal' game.
When materializing in the Argon Prime system facing towards the south gate, use the left or right arrow key to turn and face your retical roughly at the north gate bounding box.
Optionally - you can disable HUD now (SHIFT h).
Press TAB for boost extension and at the same time press F11 to start the benchmark.
Benchmark will complete in exactly 120 seconds, when you see the red or yellow fps numbers appear again you can exit out of the game.

Test2: Cloudbase Southwest (more GPU dependent and serves as an average for unpopulated systems)
Start FRAPS with settings mentioned above.
Start game with desired resolution and settings.
Start an 'Aspiring Explorer' game.
When materializing in Cloudbase Southwest you are facing the North Gate.
Press T to target the north gate.
Optionally - you can disable HUD now (SHIFT h).
Press "u" to start autopilot simultaneously with F11 to begin the benchmark.
When entering the gate press F11 to stop the benchmark at the point the gate animation begins (actual runtime is about 40 seconds).
Exit game.

Caveat: Each time you start a game there is some randomness to other ship positions in the sector so there will be some variation among tests, but in my findings they are minimal to about 1 fps difference.

In the Fraps folder under the benchmark folder you will see your results, most interesting being minmaxavg.csv

Observations and performance results:

My system specs:
  • Gigabyte GA-8IHXP MOBO
    P4 3.06 GHZ
    NVIDIA 6800 GT (Forceware 81.87 for these tests)
    1GIG RAM (850mb free)
    Creative Audigy 2
    XP SP2
Paging file resides on Raptor 10k drive, even though all free RAM isn't used up in the benchmark.

As reference 3DMark05 score ver 1.20 - 5272 (High Quality) 5418(High Perf)

Test Settings:
All tests run with high quality textures and shaders.
Image settings on driver set to high quality, and AA and AF set to application controlled unless specified below.
Vsynch disabled.

Test 1 Results (Argon prime a populated system):

1280x960 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no
Max 14
Avg 9.667

1280x960 with driver 8xAAS and 16xAF and AQC = no (aggressive GPU settings)
Max 14
Avg 8.442

NO HUD - 1280x960 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no
Max 23
Avg 14.017

Conclusion of Test1, Argon Prime system: Showed no real difference at 1024x768 from any of the above. Also windowed mode, which would effect a graphics bottleneck and not CPU as much, showed no impact. So Argon Prime is completely a CPU crippler, or a NVIDIA driver compatibility or engine optimization bug. Only more comparable tests by others will show. No driver settings made any difference with these numbers because the 6800GT was never a bottleneck until finally at 8xAAS and 16xAF it started to slow down a bit but no settings could ever speed the fps numbers up. Removing the hud shows a huge benefit in busy systems, 30% improvement here.

Test 2 Results (Cloudbase Southwest an average system):

1280x960 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no
Max 30
Avg 22.26

1280x960 with driver 8xAAS and 16xAF and AQC = no (aggressive GPU settings)
Max 22
Avg 17.022

NO HUD - 1280x960 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no
Max 62
Avg 42.018

Conclusion of Test2, Cloudbase Southwest: This test shows definite impact by the video card settings and especially showing great improvement when removing the HUD meaning it's not entirely CPU limited for a P4 3GHZ here. Removing the HUD improved average by almost double. Windowed mode showed no improvement here either for my system. In Test1 Argon Prime there is about 550MB of system Ram useage while in Test 2 there is about 400MB of useage. Users with only 512MB of RAM in Argon Prime and other busy systems will see disk thrashing for the paging file causing additional stuttering, which only increases as the game goes on, reaching up to about 1.1 GIG of actual X3 only RAM usage over time.

Overall summary - populated systems don't benefit from a high end video card above a 6800 GT hardly at all since it's very much a cpu bottleneck, while in an average system like Cloudebase Southwest the video card gets to stretch it's legs a little bit.

We really needed a way to compare apples to apples and I think this is an easy solution to compare a busy system and an average system, each showing bottlenecks in either a CPU or graphics card respectively. It's not the end all-be all, but it gives us a point of comparison that utilizes a standard methodology to produce comparable and quantifiable numbers. I expect to see ATI cards paired with fast CPU's do better than NVIDIA in Test 2-cloudbase southwest, just guessing from info I have seen in other threads. Also, AMD processors will probably shine in Argon Prime although it is a beast in that solar system on any gear and some serious optimization needs to be done to the game yet IMO. Many onboard sound cards commonly utilize 30% of CPU useage which is crippling, so generally speaking, you could subtract 1/3 from your cpu speed if you use onboard sound.

Post your results and system specs if you desire and we will see some real patterns develop and see if NVIDIA cards really have some issues with the game comparet to ATI as seems to be the case. Then when patch 1.3 comes out we will have a point of reference to compare against. :D
Last edited by MadBoris on Wed, 23. Nov 05, 11:23, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Graphil »

Just as an independant comparison check, what is your 3DMark2005 score?
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MadBoris
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Post by MadBoris »

Just as a point of reference:
3DMark 05 version 120: "4630" 3dmarks

I'm not sure how the 81.87 drivers are with 3Dmark05 but I'm not going to tweak my system to inflate a few fps for 3DMark ;)

Edit 11-14: I just reran my 3Dmark05 again and I think I was forcing vsynch to be on before because at High Qulity image settings and vsynch app controlled I now get: 5272
Last edited by MadBoris on Mon, 14. Nov 05, 19:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by wasser »

My Specs:

Abit AV8 VIA KT800 (latest drivers)
AMD 64 3000+ @2000Mhz
1GB RAM Corsair @ 2,5-3-3-6 (1GB swapfile on separate HD)
Geforce 6600GT 128MB @ 550/1030 Forceware 81.87
Audigy 2 ZS (latest driver)
WinXP

------------------------------------------------------------------

Test1 Argon Prime HUD on
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = AA by application, AF by application and Texture on High Performance

Min: 5 | Max: 30 | Avg: 17.442

Test1 Argon Prime HUD off
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = AA by application, AF by application and Texture on High Performance

Min: 9 | Max: 45 | Avg: 33.508

Test1 Argon Prime HUD on
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF off and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = 8SxAA, 16xAF and Texture on High Quality

Min: 5 | Max: 26 | Avg: 17.133

Test1 Argon Prime HUD off
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF off and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = 8SxAA, 16xAF and Texture on High Quality

Min: 6 | Max: 29 | Avg: 22.608

------------------------------------------------------------------

Test2 Cloudbase Southwest HUD on
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = AA by application, AF by application and Texture on High Performance

Min: 0 | Max: 46 | Avg: 30.643

Test2 Cloudbase Southwest HUD off
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF checked and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = AA by application, AF by application and Texture on High Performance

Min: 0 | Max: 94 | Avg: 59.433

Test2 Cloudbase Southwest HUD on
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF off and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = 8SxAA, 16xAF and Texture on High Quality

Min: 0 | Max: 30 | Avg: 19.884

Test2 Cloudbase Southwest HUD off
1280x1024 with ingame AA and AF off and AQC=no and Shader & Texture on high.
Rivatuner = 8SxAA, 16xAF and Texture on High Quality

Min: 0 | Max: 39 | Avg: 23.768


Edit: @MadBoris,
unbelievable that I've got better FPS with my 6600GT than you with your 6800GT, especially with the aggressive settings. The rest of our systems is almost the same. Only that you have a Pentium and I an AMD, but both @ 3000
P965-DS4 | C2D E8600 @ 4200MHz | 2GB DDR800 | 8800GTX | Audigy 2 ZS | WinXP SP2
MadBoris
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Post by MadBoris »

Great job on testing, excellent!
Your numbers are very telling and also disturbing for me. I'm back to the drawing board doing more testing right now as a result of your test conclusions, but I'm seeing something interesting develop. I will back soon to report my findings with further 6800gt testing and an ATI 9800 pro on the same exact PC as well.
Thanks for taking the time. Obviously, as you can clearly see having AA anf AF turned on with the 6600 card coupled with an AMD processor shows pretty great improvement for you(I'm assuming it's not just you driver image settings on performance or high quality as that didn't make a significant difference for me). As an FYI, I keep my benchmarks in subfolders labeled in detail to keep things clear for me.
Last edited by MadBoris on Fri, 11. Nov 05, 03:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by speeduk »

A64 3400 @ 215 FSB (2350mhz)
1GB OCZ 2.5-3-3-6 215mhz
MSI K8N NEO
X800pro @ 16 pipes 550/550
Hercules 2 sound card

1280x1024 ingame AA and AF checked/ AQC=no /Shader + text high
Driver = AA and AF application/ texture high quality


**Argon Prime Hud ON**
Min =7 avg =21 max= 30

**Argon Prime NO HUD!**
Min= 7 Avg= 26 Max= 44


**Cloud base SE Hud ON**
Min= 4 avg= 35 max= 46

**Cloud base SE Hud OFF**
Min= 6 avg= 69 max= 107
Last edited by speeduk on Fri, 11. Nov 05, 11:41, edited 7 times in total.
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Post by acrh2 »

A64 2.8GHz, 2G ram, 2 x BFG 7800gtx OC SLI
81.85 forceware, high, AA / AF to application preference, GCA on
1280x960, AA, AF, ACQ off, HIGH HIGH

Argon Prime 1
HUD:
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
2779, 120000, 13, 32, 23.158

No HUD:
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
3456, 120000, 14, 45, 28.800
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Post by speeduk »

Ok I have done my results but without any AA or AF as the ingame AA and AF seem enough. (Edited in above).
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Shintai
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Post by Shintai »

Tested using FRAPS 2.6.3

Test result for Argon Prime:

1280x1024 with AA on, AF off, textures high, shaders medium and AQC on, HUD on.
Max: 56
Avg: ~42

Using 2100/600Mhz P-M Dothan on Aopen i915Gmm-HFS board with RealTek 880 HD Audio. 1GB DDR2 running 600Mhz and dualchannel at 4-4-4-10, Asus EAX800XL HD2TV PCI-E with ATI Catalyst 5.10 drivers, Windows 2000 Server Standard Edition.

Didn´t test Cloudbase Southwest since it runs better than Argon Prime.

However if there is large capital battles with 120 ships fighting everything slows abit down.
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Post by speeduk »

Shintai - the idea of benchmark for comparison is to use the same settings as other people or the results are useless. :?

Use AA and AF on with High textures + shaders and no AQ so we can compare properly. :P
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Post by Shintai »

´Doh!

Then:
1280x1024 HUD on in Argon Prime with AA on AF on HIGH HIGH and AQC OFF
Max: 51
Avg: ~39
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Post by speeduk »

Edited to clean up the thread sorry.
Last edited by speeduk on Fri, 11. Nov 05, 16:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Shintai »

Yes...

My 3dmark05 is also around 5400.

The only obvious difference between you and me is that I have 2MB very low latency cache and alot higher memory bandwidth.
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Post by speeduk »

Again edited due to explanation later.
Last edited by speeduk on Fri, 11. Nov 05, 17:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Shintai »

Well Argon Prime is very CPU intensive, and I would presume the reason you and others get hit so hard at Argon Prime is due to the CPU loading alot between main memory and the cache, where mine is alot less dependant on the main memory. Or even if it´s level2 cache access alone, if you swift alot of info. Simple calculations, but alot of bandwidth then my cache is faster than yours.

It´s a 1.86Ghz P-M running 2.1Ghz with 600Mhz bus instead 533Mhz.
The x800xl runs at stock speed.

It´s a clean install, only MSN and IIS is running besides normal components, x3 and fraps, no other stuff.

However it can also just be your PC. Some have problems with audio drivers/cards in X3 among certain things. But yes, yours should usually be alot faster than mine. So it´s either X3 code or something on your PC that hinders it.

Btw, please note the 6600GT user also beated the SLI setup.
but the SLI setup with OC SLI and CPU, with all respect, looks like an idiots design. Syncronized busses are always better than asyncrone busses. Sure it works for some games, but for the majority of work his PC will skip turns on the bus when 2 busses transfering to one another ain´t in sync. And again there is a chance the components and other components along the way gets overheated or make miscalculations or transfers simple fail CRC and gets retransmitted.
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Post by speeduk »

Ah right. A dothan is an amazing chip for gaming and at 2.1ghz its like an FX 55 or so. My 3400 is only single channel and 2.35ghz where as the FX's are 2.6ghz and double channel. Looks like I need more ram and a nice FX chip.
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Post by acrh2 »

Shintai wrote:Well Argon Prime is very CPU intensive, and I would presume the reason you and others get hit so hard at Argon Prime is due to the CPU loading alot between main memory and the cache, where mine is alot less dependant on the main memory. Or even if it´s level2 cache access alone, if you swift alot of info. Simple calculations, but alot of bandwidth then my cache is faster than yours.

It´s a 1.86Ghz P-M running 2.1Ghz with 600Mhz bus instead 533Mhz.
The x800xl runs at stock speed.

It´s a clean install, only MSN and IIS is running besides normal components, x3 and fraps, no other stuff.

However it can also just be your PC. Some have problems with audio drivers/cards in X3 among certain things. But yes, yours should usually be alot faster than mine. So it´s either X3 code or something on your PC that hinders it.

Btw, please note the 6600GT user also beated the SLI setup.
but the SLI setup with OC SLI and CPU, with all respect, looks like an idiots design. Syncronized busses are always better than asyncrone busses. Sure it works for some games, but for the majority of work his PC will skip turns on the bus when 2 busses transfering to one another ain´t in sync. And again there is a chance the components and other components along the way gets overheated or make miscalculations or transfers simple fail CRC and gets retransmitted.
WHOAH! That's a whole lot of bull at once!

In response:
1) In no way or shape, did any 6600gt system beat mine. Look at average and minimum fps.
2) Do you even know what you are talking about when you speak of memory busses? Athlon 64 cpu's have on-die memory controller which ALWAYS runs asynchronously from the cpu.
3) SLI isn't being utilized by the game. I get identical results with a single 7800gtx in AFR. Only when I use SFR (but with loading screen artifacts) do I get higher performance, and only with both game monitors turned on.
4) You would have to run your Pentium-M at close to 2.4 GHz to catch up with my FX-57 performing system. What is your SuperPI 1M score?

I'm sorry but, again, I have to call bull on this one.

EDIT: for comparison, my 3dmark05 score is 8400 with a single 7800, 12,500 with dual 7800 sli, cpu score is 6100.
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Post by Shintai »

1. Its quite close ain´t it?

2. Ondie memory controller ain´t some instant mafic saviour. There is difference bteween memory latency and bandwidth.

3. SLI is not dependent on a game, you can set up a profile for any game.

4. Synthetic benchmarks for the win? Synthetic benchmarks and real world don´t have much in comon. I can write a large instruction at 1.5MB that will suck on any CPU that dont have 2MB cache that we can benchmark with.

And 6600BT 128MB:
Test1 Argon Prime HUD on
Min: 5 | Max: 30 | Avg: 17.442

Test1 Argon Prime HUD off
Min: 9 | Max: 45 | Avg: 33.508

You with 7800 SLI:
HUD:
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
2779, 120000, 13, 32, 23.158

No HUD:
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
3456, 120000, 14, 45, 28.800

Oh i´m sorry. With out the HUD your system is slower in average.
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Post by acrh2 »

Shintai wrote:1. Its quite close ain´t it?

2. Ondie memory controller ain´t some instant mafic saviour. There is difference bteween memory latency and bandwidth.

3. SLI is not dependent on a game, you can set up a profile for any game.

4. Synthetic benchmarks for the win? Synthetic benchmarks and real world don´t have much in comon. I can write a large instruction at 1.5MB that will suck on any CPU that dont have 2MB cache that we can benchmark with.
1. No. My minimum fps is close to 2x higher.
2. What is you memory latency, friend? Mine is 39ns with Everest Home. My SuperPi 1M is 30sec. I just looked up some numbers from xtremesystems.org. I was indeed correct: you have to run your cpu at more than 2.4GHz to catch up to mine @ 2.8GHz.
3. I have set up several profiles for my SLI. The AFR profile is the officially recommended as it comes with the 81.85 drivers. It shows no benefit from using SLI, both in the actual benchmark, and by enabling load balanching in the forceware drivers. The SFR profile has graphical artifcats in the loading screen, and shows small (~20%) improvement in FPS, but only when both monitors are enabled in game.
4. No, synthetic benchmarks have some merit. But this is not the point. The point here is that you are lying.

EDIT: forget for a second about his NO HUD results. I'm sure that this inconsistency will be sorted out later (I did run the test only once, the scores could be lower because of some HDD caching). Explain YOUR RESULTS.
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Post by speeduk »

Just overclocked to the max I can.

2340mhz 212fsb= 7 min 21.fps avg 30 max

2410mhz 219fsb = 8 min 21.5fps avg 31 max

To get my avg FPS upto 39fps I would need to overclock to 3.55ghz and 319fsb. LOL

I either call BS or badly optimised for AMD cpu's.

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