And if you plan TLs to only jump between the sectors dont forget to let them fly away from the gate. I dont want to crash into it if i jump in the sector myself.
[MOD/Script] LI Freight Distribution Network (FDN) - v7.2 21/11/2010
Moderators: Moderators for English X Forum, Scripting / Modding Moderators
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Marodeur
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apricotslice
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I wouldnt want to put a FDN in every sector, that would be too expensive. And for simplicities sake, there should only be one of them.
If your going to use ships, then nothing in other sectors should be needed.
If you use my chain of nodes idea for auto beaming, then use a relatively cheap (2 mil) station as a beaming node. This adds cost to the process, and conceivably could chain right accross the universe for some people, meaning they then have the equiv of a sat in each sector along the chains, and need to defend them. Ultimately for some people, the cost of nodes would be a lot more than the cost of a TL.
I dont mind a ship if you want to do it that way and its very quick. My Masterdon carries 500k so should be a good mover for this
I just dont like ships jumping around too much. They are much more vulnerable than stations are.
Other issue for ships is that when there are a lot of complexes, and some people have them dotted around all over the place, a single ship may not be able to cope with the load, so you then need to code with co-ordinating multiple ships, possibly with different load capasities.
The ship way may be more realistic, but the coding has got to be much more difficult.
If your going to use ships, then nothing in other sectors should be needed.
If you use my chain of nodes idea for auto beaming, then use a relatively cheap (2 mil) station as a beaming node. This adds cost to the process, and conceivably could chain right accross the universe for some people, meaning they then have the equiv of a sat in each sector along the chains, and need to defend them. Ultimately for some people, the cost of nodes would be a lot more than the cost of a TL.
I dont mind a ship if you want to do it that way and its very quick. My Masterdon carries 500k so should be a good mover for this
I just dont like ships jumping around too much. They are much more vulnerable than stations are.
Other issue for ships is that when there are a lot of complexes, and some people have them dotted around all over the place, a single ship may not be able to cope with the load, so you then need to code with co-ordinating multiple ships, possibly with different load capasities.
The ship way may be more realistic, but the coding has got to be much more difficult.
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Logain Abler
- Posts: 2255
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Yes 
Inter sector operations are going to take some thought and whatever option I go with is going to take some work.
The easiest option would be for FDN-N's to transfer between themselves no, maybe with a energy cost for inter-sector transfers, lets say 2 * the jump cost between the sectors involved. I could maybe script in some random transfer failures
Would this make the cost of the FDN-N's more appropriate?
I'm warming to this idea, what are peoples thoughts on this? I would love the idea of inter sector transports running around doing their thing automatically but it's a lot of work and I suspect beyond my current scripting level to achieve.
Ultimately I want whatever solution implemented to be in keeping with the X3 universe.
What FDN has turned into is far beyond what I set out to achieve and I've learnt so much. A lot in part from this forum and valued input from the interested parties.
LA
Inter sector operations are going to take some thought and whatever option I go with is going to take some work.The easiest option would be for FDN-N's to transfer between themselves no, maybe with a energy cost for inter-sector transfers, lets say 2 * the jump cost between the sectors involved. I could maybe script in some random transfer failures
Would this make the cost of the FDN-N's more appropriate?
I'm warming to this idea, what are peoples thoughts on this? I would love the idea of inter sector transports running around doing their thing automatically but it's a lot of work and I suspect beyond my current scripting level to achieve.
Ultimately I want whatever solution implemented to be in keeping with the X3 universe.
What FDN has turned into is far beyond what I set out to achieve and I've learnt so much. A lot in part from this forum and valued input from the interested parties.
LA
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mostlikely
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sat, 29. Nov 03, 23:20
Before thinking about the transport method.. how will the inter sector transfer logic work?
Basically you have 2 FDN-N's in 2 separate sectors, both with different collection and amounts of wares.
How will you decide to transfer one ware to the other?
Also as you get 3 or more FDN-N's how will a FDN-N prioritize sending wares to one FDN-N over another FDN-N?
Maybe a FDN-SuperNode which could act for FDN-N's like the FDN-N acts for factories.
Basically you have 2 FDN-N's in 2 separate sectors, both with different collection and amounts of wares.
How will you decide to transfer one ware to the other?
Also as you get 3 or more FDN-N's how will a FDN-N prioritize sending wares to one FDN-N over another FDN-N?
Maybe a FDN-SuperNode which could act for FDN-N's like the FDN-N acts for factories.
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apricotslice
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Thats what I suspected. Your way above my level though !I would love the idea of inter sector transports running around doing their thing automatically but it's a lot of work and I suspect beyond my current scripting level to achieve.
I dont like the idea of cost per beam, nor of random failures. Some complexes are very finely balanced, and missing a beam could mean they stop dead. Once stopped, getting them started again could be problematical.
Now if the node chain had one destroyed, then thats a valid reason for it stopping. Likewise the ship being destroyed if you used ships.
I've never liked games with "random events" in it. I always turn that feature off.
Trying to stick to much to "keeping it X3" only limits the options. I prefer to think about using the X3's inventions to the next level. Hence not having any problems with sector wide beaming, or between sector beaming. But then, I have a hair trigger suspension of disbelief, so if the explanation holds water, I'll accept it. And I'm very good at making viable explanations for the stuff I do in my scripts and mods.
Someone did a script for R if I remember rightly that just beamed accross the universe. But it wasnt set up for docks and PHQ. Nor did I use it. Didnt have a problem with the concept, it just didnt fit what I needed.
I do prefer the idea of a chain of small nodes accross the universe joining the FDN with complexes and stations.
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apricotslice
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Too complicated.mostlikely wrote:Before thinking about the transport method.. how will the inter sector transfer logic work?
Basically you have 2 FDN-N's in 2 separate sectors, both with different collection and amounts of wares.
How will you decide to transfer one ware to the other?
Also as you get 3 or more FDN-N's how will a FDN-N prioritize sending wares to one FDN-N over another FDN-N?
Maybe a FDN-SuperNode which could act for FDN-N's like the FDN-N acts for factories.
There should only be 1 FDN, and it beams everything in to itself, and beams out everything where its needed.
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Logain Abler
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The logic between FDN-N's is the easy bit. Simple terms there is ultimately one factory array for the sector, each factory is called and the Primary & Secondary resources are checked. If the FDN-N has the ware and in quantity it's passed to the factory , this is were I'll put in the script to capture what wares are not held by the Node.
The FDN-N search function will build a quick array of FDN's and the number of Jumps away. Loop through the FDN-N's and search for the right ware, if available transfer. Repeat for each FDN-N.
There will have to be checks to ensure that any FDN-N is still left with the right amount of wares to supply it's sector. I may add the ability to lock wares from inter-sector operations just like factories can be locked.
I have the makings of the check written down. The distribution flow can be captured and saved it in an array locally on the FDN-N (Factory, Ware, Amount, then a counter to say which rotation the transfer happened, or even game time for easy sort). I'll be using this to created flow reports keeping the last hours worth, so 20 rotations to cover an hour.
With the above details I'll be able to check predicted usage of wares and the FDN-N will only move what wares it classes as free.
This is all in the planning stage at the moment but will need to be done prior to any inter sector operations or you could end up with wares in a FDN-N loop!
One option I'm looking at is that the FDN-N will have a sphere of influence depending on it's size.
XL - 15 sectors
L - 11 sectors
M - 8 sectors
S - 5 sectors
If the sector is within range, has an FDN-Relay (think upgraded Advanced Satellite) and the fall within it's or an Advance Satellite coverage it will be managed by the FDN-N.
If I go with this option which at the moment I'm liking the sound of (changes every time I come up with a new option), I'll not include FDN-N to FDN-N operations. It will a) make FDN far more powerful than I intended, and b) far more work than I'd like
I'll just add the ability to the FDN-N menu to add a sector, first check, is it within the jump limit, second check is there an FDN-Relay, third check is it managed by another FDN-N.
This would be an extension of existing checks, just looped to cover multi sectors.
I will still include the flow reports as I thing this will be a good idea even without inter FDN-N operations.
As always this is open to discussion and ideas
LA
The FDN-N search function will build a quick array of FDN's and the number of Jumps away. Loop through the FDN-N's and search for the right ware, if available transfer. Repeat for each FDN-N.
There will have to be checks to ensure that any FDN-N is still left with the right amount of wares to supply it's sector. I may add the ability to lock wares from inter-sector operations just like factories can be locked.
I have the makings of the check written down. The distribution flow can be captured and saved it in an array locally on the FDN-N (Factory, Ware, Amount, then a counter to say which rotation the transfer happened, or even game time for easy sort). I'll be using this to created flow reports keeping the last hours worth, so 20 rotations to cover an hour.
With the above details I'll be able to check predicted usage of wares and the FDN-N will only move what wares it classes as free.
This is all in the planning stage at the moment but will need to be done prior to any inter sector operations or you could end up with wares in a FDN-N loop!
One option I'm looking at is that the FDN-N will have a sphere of influence depending on it's size.
XL - 15 sectors
L - 11 sectors
M - 8 sectors
S - 5 sectors
If the sector is within range, has an FDN-Relay (think upgraded Advanced Satellite) and the fall within it's or an Advance Satellite coverage it will be managed by the FDN-N.
If I go with this option which at the moment I'm liking the sound of (changes every time I come up with a new option), I'll not include FDN-N to FDN-N operations. It will a) make FDN far more powerful than I intended, and b) far more work than I'd like
I'll just add the ability to the FDN-N menu to add a sector, first check, is it within the jump limit, second check is there an FDN-Relay, third check is it managed by another FDN-N.
This would be an extension of existing checks, just looped to cover multi sectors.
I will still include the flow reports as I thing this will be a good idea even without inter FDN-N operations.
As always this is open to discussion and ideas
LA
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Logain Abler
- Posts: 2255
- Joined: Mon, 31. Oct 05, 08:44
I would love to have all custom modelsapricotslice wrote:The logic is sound.
You know, theres a very nice looking dish thing on the bottom of the PHQ model. If you could 'detach' that as a separate model, it would be a great 'relay'. I'd like to see something more substantial than a satelite.
Totally agree with the "more substantial" comment.Unfortunately I don't have any graphic modelling experience. What I can do is edit the relevant files and use the Advance Satellite as a place holder until I've been able build the model. That or delay until I've added the model. I'll have a read through the guides, if it looks like something I can do in a reasonable time scale Ill do it.
I think the sphere of operations is a sound idea in itself, limiting the FDN-N to a set amount of sectors over a limited jump distance opens up FDN to a believable concept for multi-sector coverage without making it over powered.
It could be possible to edit the FDN-N to build the FDN-Relay/Advance Satellites by playing with the hq.xml file.
LA
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Marodeur
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- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
Another idea i got after a cup of coffee...
Maybe a first small step for inter-sector operations...
I have many factories in the unknown sector, east of PTNI HQ, to produce some... ähm... not completely legal wares like Incendiary Bomb Launchers
After building the first factories i got the problem with silicon and ore because there arent any roids in this sector (or i missed them). But there are asteroids in PTNI HQ.
So what would be a good idea is a possibility to expand the nodes range in the sectors around the main sector. Only with satellites doesnt realy fit. More like a small relay station (say it will cost ~2.000.000) without any space for wares, only transport through the gate (maybe you need a second relay station in the core sector for inter-sector transport).
Factories in the surrounding sectors are controlled by one central node with the help of relay stations.
Maybe a first small step for inter-sector operations...
I have many factories in the unknown sector, east of PTNI HQ, to produce some... ähm... not completely legal wares like Incendiary Bomb Launchers
After building the first factories i got the problem with silicon and ore because there arent any roids in this sector (or i missed them). But there are asteroids in PTNI HQ.
So what would be a good idea is a possibility to expand the nodes range in the sectors around the main sector. Only with satellites doesnt realy fit. More like a small relay station (say it will cost ~2.000.000) without any space for wares, only transport through the gate (maybe you need a second relay station in the core sector for inter-sector transport).
Factories in the surrounding sectors are controlled by one central node with the help of relay stations.
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mostlikely
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sat, 29. Nov 03, 23:20
In my opinion having a standard 'sphere of influence' that comes free with every node would make things too bland. Having an energy cost or failure rate only partly helps with this.
My initial idea was that you needed a chain of nodes or similar functioning structures between each 2 sectors you wanted to link FDN's, when you mentioned inter sector FDN (I think it was suggested).
This gives the player some work to do to set it all up atleast and gives them something to think about when they want to link FDN's in two sectors divided by a hostile sector.
The very least I'd think is that inter-sector FDN should be an paid node upgrade much like LazCorp Crystal Free Solar Power Plant. You pay allot for the initial node but that gives a great benefit for the sector. You'l have to at least pay something or do something to get the even greater benefit for having it inter-sector.
The reason I asked for the logic is the following:
If you are going to have the information you said, a list of wares per node which the node has to capture, you could also capture said wares from any TL currently in the sector.
In the same way you could transfer back any wares the node has plenty of back to the TL.
You'd just need a script that makes the TL jump/fly back and forth between 2 sectors from time to time and you have that transfer method too.
I say 'too' because it's nice to have both that and a 'sphere of influence' transfer method available.
Anyways.. sorry for bringing TL's up 'again' but I do so wish I could use them for... you know.. actually transporting wares.
My initial idea was that you needed a chain of nodes or similar functioning structures between each 2 sectors you wanted to link FDN's, when you mentioned inter sector FDN (I think it was suggested).
This gives the player some work to do to set it all up atleast and gives them something to think about when they want to link FDN's in two sectors divided by a hostile sector.
The very least I'd think is that inter-sector FDN should be an paid node upgrade much like LazCorp Crystal Free Solar Power Plant. You pay allot for the initial node but that gives a great benefit for the sector. You'l have to at least pay something or do something to get the even greater benefit for having it inter-sector.
The reason I asked for the logic is the following:
If you are going to have the information you said, a list of wares per node which the node has to capture, you could also capture said wares from any TL currently in the sector.
In the same way you could transfer back any wares the node has plenty of back to the TL.
You'd just need a script that makes the TL jump/fly back and forth between 2 sectors from time to time and you have that transfer method too.
I say 'too' because it's nice to have both that and a 'sphere of influence' transfer method available.
Anyways.. sorry for bringing TL's up 'again' but I do so wish I could use them for... you know.. actually transporting wares.
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WildAce
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Logain Abler
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Okay, after much deliberation I'm looking at taking FDN down the following route.
FDN-N's will be a standalone distribution solution. By this I mean deployed FDN-N's will only manage sectors under their sphere of influence. There will be no FDN-N to FDN-N interconnection.
The FDN-N's sphere of influence and maximum number of managed sectors will depend on the version deployed.
Provisionally this will be:
XL:
Storage = 50,000,000
Sectors = 15
Jump Distance = 6
L:
Storage = 40,000,000
Sectors = 11
Jump Distance = 5
M
Storage = 30,000,000
Sectors = 8
Jump Distance = 4
S
Storage = 30,000,000
Sectors = 5
Jump Distance = 3
Each sector without an FDN-N will require a FDN-Relay to be deployed. Sectors will only be managed by a single FDN-N.
(FDN-Relay's will be like deployable Satellites and will intergraded with existing Advance Satellites to improve sector coverage. They will either be build-able from the FDN-N and /or available from Shipyards. Depending on the work involved this will either be an existing model or a new one)
The FDN-Network will need to be maintained. If an FDN-Relay is destroyed FDN-N access to the sector will be lost, if an Advance Satellite is lost coverage will be reduced.
There will be a Network Report available at the FDN-N displaying the state of all contributing elements.
There will be a Flow Report for monitoring the amount of ware handled by the FDN-N both inbound and outbound over the last hour.
I forgot to say, Ship Re-supply will be limited to the Sector were the FDN-N is deployed.
Although I'm keen to go down this route I'm still open to ideas, issue, arguments or suggestions.
@ mostlikely. I hope this address some of your issue? It wouldn't take much scripting for an energy cost based on the jump distance. But if you have to do this for each ware you may need an XL SPP to solely support a single FDN-N! Not keen but it's better than charging money.
You could still use TL for inter FDN-N manually! Maybe v3.2 will add this (just maybe), and develop FDN-N to a fully integrated Universal Ware Distribution Service (UWDS - spawn of FDN).
@ WildAce. I could add FDN-N to all Shipyards in v3.1, no problem there it's just several TDock & HQ.xml additions. I did keep the reputation requirements to standard Factory access.
I hope the above concept is a advancement to FDN which is a compromise to all interested parties?
One note is that I won't introduce financial changes other than the cost of setting up and maintaining the FDN Network.
LA
FDN-N's will be a standalone distribution solution. By this I mean deployed FDN-N's will only manage sectors under their sphere of influence. There will be no FDN-N to FDN-N interconnection.
The FDN-N's sphere of influence and maximum number of managed sectors will depend on the version deployed.
Provisionally this will be:
XL:
Storage = 50,000,000
Sectors = 15
Jump Distance = 6
L:
Storage = 40,000,000
Sectors = 11
Jump Distance = 5
M
Storage = 30,000,000
Sectors = 8
Jump Distance = 4
S
Storage = 30,000,000
Sectors = 5
Jump Distance = 3
Each sector without an FDN-N will require a FDN-Relay to be deployed. Sectors will only be managed by a single FDN-N.
(FDN-Relay's will be like deployable Satellites and will intergraded with existing Advance Satellites to improve sector coverage. They will either be build-able from the FDN-N and /or available from Shipyards. Depending on the work involved this will either be an existing model or a new one)
The FDN-Network will need to be maintained. If an FDN-Relay is destroyed FDN-N access to the sector will be lost, if an Advance Satellite is lost coverage will be reduced.
There will be a Network Report available at the FDN-N displaying the state of all contributing elements.
There will be a Flow Report for monitoring the amount of ware handled by the FDN-N both inbound and outbound over the last hour.
I forgot to say, Ship Re-supply will be limited to the Sector were the FDN-N is deployed.
Although I'm keen to go down this route I'm still open to ideas, issue, arguments or suggestions.
@ mostlikely. I hope this address some of your issue? It wouldn't take much scripting for an energy cost based on the jump distance. But if you have to do this for each ware you may need an XL SPP to solely support a single FDN-N! Not keen but it's better than charging money.
You could still use TL for inter FDN-N manually! Maybe v3.2 will add this (just maybe), and develop FDN-N to a fully integrated Universal Ware Distribution Service (UWDS - spawn of FDN).
@ WildAce. I could add FDN-N to all Shipyards in v3.1, no problem there it's just several TDock & HQ.xml additions. I did keep the reputation requirements to standard Factory access.
I hope the above concept is a advancement to FDN which is a compromise to all interested parties?
One note is that I won't introduce financial changes other than the cost of setting up and maintaining the FDN Network.
LA
Last edited by Logain Abler on Mon, 12. Jan 09, 17:40, edited 2 times in total.
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WildAce
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Marodeur
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WildAce
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thx, but im not impatient. i dont mind waiting for the normal release. atm in that game i dont even have any factorys yet,Logain Abler wrote:Not a problem, if you PM me your email I may be able to sort that out for you prior to v3.1.WildAce wrote:thx, it was just that in one of my games im killing Argons left and right so even standerd argon shipyard access doesnt exist for me
LA
Spoiler
Show
doing the Poisoned Paranid start and just finished the 25mill start quest. so my main goal atm is just to finish outfitting the HypV and its 2 Escort fighters.
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Logain Abler
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- Joined: Mon, 31. Oct 05, 08:44
No problemWildAce wrote:thx, but im not impatient. i dont mind waiting for the normal release. atm in that game i dont even have any factorys yet,Logain Abler wrote:Not a problem, if you PM me your email I may be able to sort that out for you prior to v3.1.WildAce wrote:thx, it was just that in one of my games im killing Argons left and right so even standerd argon shipyard access doesnt exist for me
LASpoilerShowdoing the Poisoned Paranid start and just finished the 25mill start quest. so my main goal atm is just to finish outfitting the HypV and its 2 Escort fighters.
Have fun 
LA
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Logain Abler
- Posts: 2255
- Joined: Mon, 31. Oct 05, 08:44
Request
Hi All,
I have a request for anyone who's been using FDN.
I'm wondering if anyone has had any performance issues that might be attributable to FDN?
Although I've tested with 120+ factories and complexes over several sectors with no issues, I'd like to know how things are working in a real game environment.
Cheers
LA
I have a request for anyone who's been using FDN.
I'm wondering if anyone has had any performance issues that might be attributable to FDN?
Although I've tested with 120+ factories and complexes over several sectors with no issues, I'd like to know how things are working in a real game environment.
Cheers
LA
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Marodeur
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
How about an option to set a maximum stock for specific wares in the node? If i cant sell all surplus wares in time the node is flooded with low cost resources and i have not enough room for the wares i want in stock.
Yes, i can turn that station off so no products are beamed to the node. But then i have to keep checking the node if there is need of that resource again and activate it... and so on...
If i set a maximum stock of a ware in the node and it stops beaming the freight into it if it has reached that level i havent to check it all the time.
Freighters can sell the ware if there is no need of it in the node (I use the commercial agent from lucike and he sells wares only if they are above a specified level).
Would make management easier i think.
Yes, i can turn that station off so no products are beamed to the node. But then i have to keep checking the node if there is need of that resource again and activate it... and so on...
If i set a maximum stock of a ware in the node and it stops beaming the freight into it if it has reached that level i havent to check it all the time.
Freighters can sell the ware if there is no need of it in the node (I use the commercial agent from lucike and he sells wares only if they are above a specified level).
Would make management easier i think.
Last edited by Marodeur on Tue, 13. Jan 09, 01:36, edited 4 times in total.