X2 Vs Freelancer.

[darkmaster]

So from what I gather, we want something like this:

- Action like Freelancer.
- Deep and strong game play like X2
- Tactical combat both on space and plantary like Imperium Galactica (which remind me you guys never mention this game )
- Super Empire builder like X2.


So...Do you think we will ever get a game that has all those element, I'll pay 100$ for it

You forgot what the thread started for:
- More explorable space (not sectors, space within a sector!) in a more sparse environment (space stations, spaceships...)
- More realistic Flight Speed (Ehi, Wing commander ships travel at 30000 Km/s!!)
-More realistic Communication system (8.0 Km?!?! Less than a walkie talkie!! My CB transmits at over 200Km sometimes, and I'm not in the straight line of space...)
-Planet Interaction (landing, commerce, missions, NPC interaction...)
-Intersystem travel between planets and Sun)
-Cruise Speed (that doubles your speed but disables weapon systems...)
And so on...

[Asp40]

Ironicly, Freelancer was the reason I bought X2.
I hadn't played a space-sim since Elite, and I got a trial version of Freelancer with a computer mag.
I thought I'd try it, and enjoyed playing through the plot so much that I was itching for a sequel. (I found that once you'd played the story line through, there realy wasn't much to do in Freelancer. Trading is not very interesting and fighting gets repetative. Your only aim seems to be to get better ships.)
Anyway, whilst reading reviews etc. to find out if a sequel to Freelancer was comming out, I heard a lot of people talking about X2, and how much bigger and more engrossing it was than Freelancer. (Also not made by Microsoft - Bonus!)
So I bought a copy, and havn't looked back since.
The gameplay in X2 is so absorbing that the storyline comes second, rather than being the main reason for playing (like Freelancer). I can see myself playing this for a long time to come.


Asp - currently whacking pirates in Split sectors.
3 SSPs in Argon, Boron and Teladi space.
Just built my first crystal fab in Red light.

Can't wait for The Return!

[Maranno]

So from what I gather, we want something like this:

- Action like Freelancer.
- Deep and strong game play like X2
- Tactical combat both on space and plantary like Imperium Galactica (which remind me you guys never mention this game )
- Super Empire builder like X2.


So...Do you think we will ever get a game that has all those element, I'll pay 100$ for it

- More explorable space (not sectors, space within a sector!) in a more sparse environment (space stations, spaceships...)
- More realistic Flight Speed (Ehi, Wing commander ships travel at 30000 Km/s!!)
-More realistic Communication system (8.0 Km?!?! Less than a walkie talkie!! My CB transmits at over 200Km sometimes, and I'm not in the straight line of space...)
-Planet Interaction (landing, commerce, missions, NPC interaction...)
-Intersystem travel between planets and Sun)
-Cruise Speed (that doubles your speed but disables weapon systems...)
And so on...

This would make a nice game

As I've said in loads of these arguments all over the place X2 AND FREELANCER ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES. Just because they both happen to be set in space does NOT mean that they are trying to out-do each other.

Freelancer is more for arcade style gaming with instant action.

X2 is more for strategy style gaming and only satisfying in the long term.

I personally own them both, and still play them both, as I founded and co-run a Freelancer clan and am a member of an X2 clan. IMHO its the communities which keep games going more than the game.

I fully have to agree with Myo here, I have both games and play both regularly, Freelancer when i don't have much time since you can jump into actions the minute you start the game.

I play X2 when I have more time to play, I think a which is better discussion cannot be held, since these games are, although based in similar surroundings, very different in gameplay.

Whichever you like best is based on the kind of game you like to play and how much time you are prepared to put into the game.

[giskard]

Giskard, I see your point, but despite that fact there is a distinctive difference with game classification. Using the same argument, it could be said that Final Fantasy (actually an RPG), Flight Simulator (speaks for itself) or even Halo (FPS) are strategy games because you have a master plan (generally to 'complete the game').

Its an interesting argument, and I agree that there are SOME elements of strategy in Freelancer (as in any game), but I don't think one could honestly classify Freelancer is a strategy/space combat game.

I think the general rule people use is to take the most important aspect of a game and file it under that. I know I do. This is why flight sims are not considered shooters and why RPGs are not considered strategy games. Dispite the fact there is a little of each genre in them all.

If you look at the most popular games around today, they are not pure FPS or pure Strategy, they tend to be mix of several things with 1 thing dominating the entire game.

No big deal here, just an interesting observation about games in general.

Giskard

[JungleJim]

I'd like to see some aspects of FreeSpace (& FS 2) into X2. Combat in fighter craft was excellent in those games.

I'd like some of the realism, universe size, sector variation, planet types, equipment options, etc. of VegaStrike too.

But X2 should definitely keep its economic models! I don't think they're perfect but they are orders of magnitude better than other games.

I'd like to see sine improvments in cap ship combat but don't have a handy game to compare it to (StarFleet Command??).

Be seeing you

[Myo]

Yeah, giskard, it is a strange curiousity of how games are merging concepts more.

Years ago, you'd get a shooter, like doom, and it'd be what it says it is, a shooter. Nowadays, you get a game like Freedom Fighters, which is a team AI-based shooter with strategy elements, having trouble taking an area because of the attack choppers? Head to another and destroy the helipads.

Anyway, moving back on topic, X2 has a perfect economic model, I agree. There are VERY few games with an interactive economy (although it does make it a little difficult to plan out strategies for building factories). But I really think planets should be more accessible as should stations. Ok, so the planets in FL are a little unrealistic in size? Big deal, the point is you can land on them. When I'm out flying in X2, I sometimes feel the urge to land on a station properly and go and look at the mission boards actually on the station, going to the equipment dealer and talking in person, rather than access them from my ship, it sorta feels kinda isolated to do everything remotely. A system like FL uses, but more expansive, with different places to go on stations and planets would be a massive improvement IMO, maybe for the sequel/expansion....

[joebeard]

One thing that is worth remembering because it applies equally to mod makers as well as game developers is who ever makes a game or mods it does so with a specific plan in mind.

Any idea that comes along that fits in with that plan has a chance of becoming a feature. Any idea that does not fit into that plan has no chance at all.

So an idea must fit that plan to be acceptable and thus considered.

Lets face it, trade lanes where great for freelancer but they are just not a good X feature. Anybody that adds what he thinks is a good idea without considering the over all plan will end up with a royal mess of a game.

Giskard

I hear ya bro!

I played a lot of FL mods and some of them were simply aweful... There was one with loads of extra ships and stuff, yet all the weapons were (inexplicably) massively powerful, thus all the stats were wack too... :F

[pjknibbs]

You forgot what the thread started for:
- More explorable space (not sectors, space within a sector!) in a more sparse environment (space stations, spaceships...)
- More realistic Flight Speed (Ehi, Wing commander ships travel at 30000 Km/s!!)
-More realistic Communication system (8.0 Km?!?! Less than a walkie talkie!! My CB transmits at over 200Km sometimes, and I'm not in the straight line of space...)
-Planet Interaction (landing, commerce, missions, NPC interaction...)
-Intersystem travel between planets and Sun)
-Cruise Speed (that doubles your speed but disables weapon systems...)
And so on...

In other words, lift the flight and physics engine out of Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos. Apart from the planet interaction (which I have never, and will never, see the point of) it does all of the above.

[darkmaster]

. Ok, so the planets in FL are a little unrealistic in size?

And, personally, I don't notice.
From an altitude of 300 Km or more (wich We can aassume is the altitude of the landing gate of FL), a planet can look exactly in this way.
Note that in FL they always use a conventional Meas.Unit which is K.
They never said it's Kilometers.

[giskard]

No Freelancer object was (typos) realistic.

The devs used a little artistic licience on everything so they would fit in the same space.

People complained about the planets being too small but lets fact it, if the planets and suns where full size youd need a week to fly around one.

Giskard

[Holliday]

For the record, there is a cockpit view in Freelancer, so it isn't a third person game.
I play them both, I like them both.

[Mightysword]

No Freelancer object was not a realisted.

The devs used a little artistic licience on everything so they would fit in the same space.

People complained about the planets being too small but lets fact it, if the planets and suns where full size youd need a week to fly around one.

Giskard

I won't say that unrealistic, because, we never know 300K is how fast right? The size of a ship and the size of the planet seems to be comparible. Also note that it's Sirus, not Earth. Maybe Planet is smaller over there. Remember Trent write in his log Mahattan is a huge city cover the entire planet, so that's mean the planet is not very big.

The only unrealistic is compare the size of a BattleShip and a fighter.

[pjknibbs]

And you didn't find it remotely unrealistic that you often had four or five planets contained within the same few tens of thousands of kilometres of space, then?

[Whiplash]

In Argon Prime, near the west gate, there are two planets (or a planet and a moon) that seem to be waaaaaay too close together. They are practically touching!

[Nyax]

In Argon Prime, near the west gate, there are two planets (or a planet and a moon) that seem to be waaaaaay too close together. They are practically touching!

Code: Select all

 Ditto in Three worlds. Freelancers solar systems may not be any more accurate then X2s, but they are at least A) more fun to fly round in and B)Actually do feel like real solar systems

[quote]Apart from the planet interaction (which I have never, and will never, see the point of)[/quote] Then allow me to explain: When people think about exploring space they think about traveling far and wide to Alien WORLDS, not to the orbit of distant worlds to dock at space stations identical in every single way to the place they just left. Furthermore the planets are where most of the population of the X universe live, therefore that's where most of the opportunities for profit are to be had, not to mention where most of the people needing jobs doing are to be found.

Oh and thanks to the cutscenes they planets look vastly more interesting places then the space stations.

[rustamk]

As I switched to X2 only recently this is what I say:

Things I miss from Freelancer:

Nav-Points
Plot
Feel of life - Radio Chatter, rogue fights, hailing system
Feel of mystery - How do you feel when you visit a Nomad sector, or fly through Tau-31, even in the best of ships, you are praying to god for that pirate squadron not to notice you! In X2 you are not afraid of visiting the Xenon in a Spacesiut, as someone pointed out in another thread.
Music - Awesome in systems and during fights.
Smooth graphics
Mouse Support - I think this was the best feature in freelancer, the way I could target something by moving the mouse and stuff like that.
Short Cut Keys Remap - I cant believe they missed this one out!

Things that I hail in X2

Capital Ships and multiple ships
Own stations

Rustam

[giskard]

rustamk:

I would have to agree with all your points there, i liked all those aspects of Freelancer.

On the subject of unrealistic, I am a big supporter of Devs using some artistic licience when it improves a game. Id rather my games be fun than accurate any day.

However planet sizes in Freelancer where unrealistic.
In some cases you could fit an enter sector into an area thats about the same as the area Earth and its moon takes up.

Giskard

[duriel]

I'm not sure why people liked the mouse flight system in FL. I suppose it makes it easier but it just didn't seem like i flying a ship. Just pointing the mouse at what i wanted to fly at just reduced the skill in piloting. The flight system was done to appeal to the masses and so the people who couldn't manage normal flight games could play. Basically the dumbed the control system down to the point where everyone could be an ace pilot.

The list rustamk gave has good pionts. I'm not sure what you'd nav points for though. I guess you could plot it so you could avoid certain pireate sector rather it taking you the most direct route but you just get a jumpdrive.

One of my biggest problems with what people about Freelancer and want in X2 is, Does it fit with what we already have or what has been built up of the history in the X Universe. Just because a feature fitted and worked well in one game doesn't mean it would work well or fit into another game.


Neil.

[spence336]

i found it odd that planets could be 80mk away from each other and not crash together and blow up, but hey its a game

[Myo]

Amen, rustamk.

Especially on this point:

Feel of mystery - How do you feel when you visit a Nomad sector, or fly through Tau-31, even in the best of ships, you are praying to god for that pirate squadron not to notice you! In X2 you are not afraid of visiting the Xenon in a Spacesuit, as someone pointed out in another thread.

On several occassions have I been flying through a sector, desparately trying to avoid the patrolling wings of enemies and find that jumphole that I know is around somewhere, but is hidden by the nebula gases(especially on some servers; like the Jolt server, which is modded so that enemies are MUCH harder. Hessians in sabres with lvl 10 shields armed with a tizona, a missile launcher and a load of nomads weapons; anyone? Oh, and of course the obligatory cruise-disruptors to prevent your escape. )

X2 sorta doesn't have that sort of tension. If you're not flying through in a destroyer or corvette (to take them on easily), you can just jump out. And if you've not got a jumpdrive, its never far to a gate...

Having said that, I think its a bit stupid the way you can only have one ship in Freelancer. Thats what I like about X2, fleets.