X2 Vs Freelancer.

[Lutzie]

All I can say about Freelancer is that I dont own it but I have an understanding with those who do

Al

LOL! Reply of the thread!

Glad someone acknowledged my attempt to lighten the mood. Perhaps a little too subtle for those who haven't spent much time playing FL.

Al

How anyone could miss that one is beyond me!

Speaking of thelancersreactor I NEVER had any bad experiences there... Saying that I left before X2 came out TBH. I think everyone was a bit pissed off with the sheer amount of no-support from MS regarding the game.

[giskard]

I am quite impressed with how most people posting to this thread have been MORE than fair to another game (Freelancer), even if it was not their preferred game. It seems that most people who have played both games all agree that each game had their good points and bad points. Take it from someone who has posted regularly on several Freelancer forums, dedicated to their multiplayer servers: If this topic had appeared on any one of those forums, the original poster would easily have been insulted, cursed at, and pretty much booed off the forum.



Someone else (too lazy to look up who) said it already: if they topic had been on Lancersreactor.com, it would have been locked immediately.

Yes ive seen that happen, mods are generally quick to move such threads on the freelancer forums. Still what I have noticed is that if a known player brings it up like me or Duriel over on some forums the over all response is different than if a stranger brought it up. Both me and Duriel are well known over on some freelancer forums.

The mods will follow their rule book to the letter on lancers so atleast they treat everybody the same even if the readers dont. A lot of people find their rules rather strict but considering the hot heads around I see why they need it.

Giskard

[carran]

I think the important point is both X2 and FL have advanced the space genre and made it a bit more accessible to the game playing public.

Anything that provides ideas and concepts which can be adapted and improved upon - hopefully for X2 - is IMHO an good thing, BTW, anyone heard whether there will be a FL2?

Whether FL or X2 is the better game is a subjective argument, I think both serve the genre well for reasons outlined by other posters, it's also clear both have limitations which I hope will be addressed by future incarnations

[misterSpikes]

I think the important point is both X2 and FL have advanced the space genre and made it a bit more accessible to the game playing public.

Anything that provides ideas and concepts which can be adapted and improved upon - hopefully for X2 - is IMHO an good thing, BTW, anyone heard whether there will be a FL2?

Whether FL or X2 is the better game is a subjective argument, I think both serve the genre well for reasons outlined by other posters, it's also clear both have limitations which I hope will be addressed by future incarnations

Well said! It seems to me that posters to the X2 boards generally (although not always) apply the THINK aspect to what they're posting as well as to their X2 games; as Giskard said there are posters on other forums who will just hurl abuse at you for slightest criticism, whereas on here it's accepted, discussed and the outcome noted by the devs.
As to FL2, who knows? It probably won't come out until they come up with another "Lancer" title. Maybe they'll release a special boxed set with all 3 games:

1. Microsoft's Starlancer
2. Microsoft's Freelancer
3. Bill Gates' Boil Lancer

[Some Idiot in PA]

...considering Microsoft's (and Digital Anvil's) total lack of support for Freelancer, I'd say FL2 is a clear IMPOSSIBILITY. As much as I'd like to see a sequel, it won't happen. The closest you'll get to a sequel is to download the Evolutions mod for Freelancer.

[ians]

I like x2 and freelancer

Freelancer seems alot better in fighting because the shooting in the game seems fast the way it should be, in x2 all the weapons apart from Kyon , Psgs weapons seem to be very SLOW in traving so easy you can avoid gun fire in x2. I can fly in any small ship and go to the Xenon sectors and fly around all the capital ships an they cant hit me coz there fire power is really slow and easy to avoid. And freelancer has online.

But do like the way in x2 where you can own lots of different types of ships and stations, even better when the x2 expansion comes out.

Dont get me wrong do like fighting in x2 especialy when you see ai fighting against each other, just the fire rate in x2 seems to be abit slow to me any one agree ??

[giskard]

One thing that is worth remembering because it applies equally to mod makers as well as game developers is who ever makes a game or mods it does so with a specific plan in mind.

Any idea that comes along that fits in with that plan has a chance of becoming a feature. Any idea that does not fit into that plan has no chance at all.

So an idea must fit that plan to be acceptable and thus considered.

Lets face it, trade lanes where great for freelancer but they are just not a good X feature. Anybody that adds what he thinks is a good idea without considering the over all plan will end up with a royal mess of a game.

Giskard

[mrbandwidth]

The main difference between X2 and FL is that they are games of different genres: yes, they are settled in space, but X2 is mainly a STRATEGY game, while FL is a TRADE & COMBAT game.

Why?

Because in X2 you are able to own lots of ships at the same time, while FL doesn't allow that. And this simple fact has huge consequences in terms of gameplay. Of course, X2 can be played as FL (not the other way) but I seriously doubt nobody had done that except at the beginning of the game.

As it seems clear that Microsoft won't make new Freelancer games, Egosoft should think seriously in making a spinoff of X games, based in the X Universe but without the RTS elements, to catch this potential market. A game (could be named X-Adventurer or similar to state that it's an X game but not of the same kind of X, X2, Xn...) more centered around your character and your unique ship (you could own several ships, but not at the same time), without micro-management but leaving the alive AI economy of X2 as is. The interface (a major drawback in X2) could then be simplified and polished a lot, as long as you wouldn't have to track lots of owned properties.

I think it's a good idea...

Mr B

[carran]

Maybe a good idea but just not going to happen

Personally I'd rather see the X series expanded as planned, what you suggest would require a significant amount of effort to implement ending up with...a FL style game in the X universe?

[misterSpikes]

Maybe someone could write a mod for Freelancer that turns all the ships into X ships and the characters into the different races.

the Khaak could be the Nomads, Argons the Liberty folk, Paranid could be Corsairs, etc etc.

It would take some doing, but it might be fun. If I had the first clue how to mod a game I'd have a bash myself.

[mrbandwidth]

Maybe a good idea but just not going to happen

Personally I'd rather see the X series expanded as planned, what you suggest would require a significant amount of effort to implement ending up with...a FL style game in the X universe?

Of course it means an effort, but:

1. Egosoft makes X games (an effort too) for MONEY, face it (they are Teladi's ). Freelancer probably earned more money than X2, so it's a good opportunity for profitsss.

2. Settling alternate games in the X Universe too makes easy to share artwork and code between them, so the effort is diminished a bit.

3. The more money Ego earns, the more X games will be able to do.

Is it a risk? Yes; any profitable opportunity it is. But, precisely by setting the plot in the X Universe the risk and effort would be reduced, while the potential market for such a game does exist without doubt.

Me!

[darkmaster]

Ok, I think this thread shuold be reported to devnet, since there are many good ideas (not the last those of my first post... )

[carran]

Maybe a good idea but just not going to happen

Personally I'd rather see the X series expanded as planned, what you suggest would require a significant amount of effort to implement ending up with...a FL style game in the X universe?

Of course it means an effort, but:

1. Egosoft makes X games (an effort too) for MONEY, face it (they are Teladi's ). Freelancer probably earned more money than X2, so it's a good opportunity for profitsss.

2. Settling alternate games in the X Universe too makes easy to share artwork and code between them, so the effort is diminished a bit.

3. The more money Ego earns, the more X games will be able to do.

Is it a risk? Yes; any profitable opportunity it is. But, precisely by setting the plot in the X Universe the risk and effort would be reduced, while the potential market for such a game does exist without doubt.

Me!

1) FL also took a long time to produce - was it 3 or 5 years? and had the backing of MS which Egosoft doesn't have

2) You have a point except for the effort in producing or using tools to allow this to happen - look at the mods available so far for evidence on how hard this currently is

3) True, however, Egosoft are a small company with limited resources therefore whilst everyone would agree and want more X games (or derivatives) sooner it is very much chicken and egg scenario

[SteveMill]

I like both games but for longevity and depth prefer X2. FL is still my favourite FPS/TPS. It's not really a sim worth the name, just a good fun fast blaster that can be very easily modded.

Can't remember which mod I'm playing but you name a sci-fi ship from Voyager to B5 Starfuries and you can buy it and fly it. Great fun.

If there is one thing I'd like stolen for X and that's the radio chatter linked to what ships are doing. But a lot of us said that straight off, way before x2 came out. I'd still like it.

Forget the effort needed to do cut-scenes for us to laugh and point at, if they can't be done to 2004 industry standards they shouldn't be done at all. Replace them with comic book style story boards (using the talented artists on the board) and put the multi-media effort into supporting in-game suspension of disbelief.

[Myo]

God, I hate these debates.

As I've said in loads of these arguments all over the place X2 AND FREELANCER ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES. Just because they both happen to be set in space does NOT mean that they are trying to out-do each other.

Freelancer is more for arcade style gaming with instant action.

X2 is more for strategy style gaming and only satisfying in the long term.

I personally own them both, and still play them both, as I founded and co-run a Freelancer clan and am a member of an X2 clan. IMHO its the communities which keep games going more than the game.

[misterSpikes]

God, I hate these debates.

That's cos you've taken part in lots of them, maybe a lot of folk here haven't done so before. I agree with you 100%. You're exactly right in what you say about them being completely different games, and about communities such as this keeping games alive. You've expressed your opinion on this before, no doubt as passionately as some here have, let's keep that community spirit and have a bit of patience with those who haven't.

[giskard]

For the record, Strategy basically means a plan of action. Tactics is how you impliment a strategy, your weapon choices, how you engage the enemy or where you build a factory.

A strategy encompases all of that in one big master plan.

So yes X2 is a strategy game to some players who start a game with a specific goal in mind.

For me it was to occupy the southern sections and build up trade in those areas whilst remaining friendly to the pirates.

Freelancer could also be considered a strategy game but in a very child like way because you just do not have the same level of options in Freelancer as you do in X2. There really is not much difference between planning to buy a ship and actually buying it. Strategy and Tactics are there for almost the same thing in Freelancer.

Giskard

[Myo]

Erm, you've kinda got the wrong end of the stick here, misterSpikes. I don't hate them because they happen and that people take part in them, its just that they always seem to end up as a massive row over which is better.

Giskard, I see your point, but despite that fact there is a distinctive difference with game classification. Using the same argument, it could be said that Final Fantasy (actually an RPG), Flight Simulator (speaks for itself) or even Halo (FPS) are strategy games because you have a master plan (generally to 'complete the game').

Its an interesting argument, and I agree that there are SOME elements of strategy in Freelancer (as in any game), but I don't think one could honestly classify Freelancer is a strategy/space combat game.

[Whiplash]

Freelancer four words: Third person, mouse driven.
YUCK!

I'm sorry if anyone else mentioned this, I was pressed for time and only skimmed the thread, but it is possible in Freelancer to play in first person view. I played all the way through the game in that way. Yes, with some ships, you can get a partially obscurred view from weapons fire, but I didn't face that problem much as I didn't personally use those ships. They are not necessarily the best, mandatory ships.

The mouse control only was a bit of a bummer, but when you play the game, you can see why they did it that way, as there is so much you can interact with on the hud via the mouse. One button takes you in and out of flight mode, so you can quickly interact with the hud.

A bigger problem was the lack of invertable mouse. But that also made sense, since you would use the mouse on the interface.. it would be hard to be using the reverse up / down, and then when you go into mouse mode, you'd be inclined to move the wrong way up or down, etc. I got used to the mouse control within about 30 minutes of play, and found it to work pretty good.

[Mightysword]

So from what I gather, we want something like this:

- Action like Freelancer.
- Deep and strong game play like X2
- Tactical combat both on space and plantary like Imperium Galactica (which remind me you guys never mention this game )
- Super Empire builder like X2.


So...Do you think we will ever get a game that has all those element, I'll pay 100$ for it