[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

[Joubarbe]

Mayhem 3.3d released

3.3d: Traders were not fully synchronized. Explanation: when a Trader was looking to import a ware to his homebase, he was synchronized with other Traders as long as the seller was the same. However, two Traders could go to two different places to buy the same ware. Now, it's only limited to one Trader max. I was aware of this "bug", but considered that it was good, because a lot of resources was needed at some point, but after all, seeing that the cargo hold of all freighters are huge, and that they always have something to do (especially the AI), it's better to have one ware per Trader max.

[Jonzac]

Ok, I need some help/info with boarding.

Specifically, I can't see to find any idea of what skill level each marine should have to give the 4 person boarding party a "reasonable" chance at a M7.

Also, I can't find anything on what each specific marine skill does during the boarding. Partially, because I keep getting them killed in M3s trying to get their skill level up....I haven't been able to actually try a boarding.

[4square425]

Ok, I need some help/info with boarding.

Specifically, I can't see to find any idea of what skill level each marine should have to give the 4 person boarding party a "reasonable" chance at a M7.

Also, I can't find anything on what each specific marine skill does during the boarding. Partially, because I keep getting them killed in M3s trying to get their skill level up....I haven't been able to actually try a boarding.

For training marines, either put them in a tight group and micro them if M3s or use M6s for safety.

I succeeded on boarding when each marine had 100 in two skills, but I probably could have managed it with 100 each in one skill if I practiced more or got a good combination of decks. One major consideration is to get at least two of the marines to have 100 in Craftsmanship because you are likely going to have to fight at least twice - pilot and sentinel. Being able to exchange marines for fighting duties while not having to hack through medbays saves time.

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Page 530 in this thread has a lot of info on boarding. For the skills, it shows what each one does while boarding, but Craftsmanship tends to be fighting and deactivating ship systems like shields. Logic is for disabling cameras and things like obtaining money. Perception is for searching for keycards and learning things like new blueprints. Leadership serves as a skill multiplier for the rest of the marines when Supervising, plus the final takeover of the ship. All of the skills are used to unlock certain rooms, except Leadership, I think.

[Joubarbe]

Killing the pilot now requires Perception.

[Hector0x]

Loot definitely works now. I thought you had no idea how to fix it?

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Looter Workers make great sense now. Time to think about a proper tutorial for those
I'm still trying to figure out the best solutions for merging random loot stockpiles in various outposts and distribute them to where you want it. Because it's quite easy to miss that you're sitting on a lot of stuff if it's spread all over the place.

[Joubarbe]

There is a general random loot, that is hardcoded. I actually thought it was "my" loot that was working, but poorly. In fact mine was never working. To me there was also a little something more that was missing when it comes to gaining money, so now you can loot. I made a million selling Computer Comps in less than 10 hours in-game. But the AI Looters are pretty efficient too.

For those who are not satisfied with the loot chances, you can change it from the addon\t\9972 file, these two lines:

Code: Select all

		<t id="140">20</t> <!-- Chances (out of 1000) for every ship to drop EACH of his shield/laser/missile when destroyed by ANYONE. (default: 20) -->
		<t id="232">40</t> <!-- Chances (out of 1000) for every ship to drop EACH of his shield/laser/missile when destroyed by PLAYERSHIP. (default: 40) -->

Default values are rather high, but it makes sense to me that you can retrieve some equipment from a destroyed ship.

I'd be interested in feedback about this new loot on big empires. Also about the new default amount of resources the first Outposts receive on new games (it seems a bit high, but not completely incoherent).

[Edna]

Neat! I'll have some spare time in a month, so I'm looking forward to test all of it out then.

(By the way, any chances for a maintenance-per-hour/tax-income-per-hour overview in the maintenance screen?)

[Joubarbe]

I don't see the point, the calculation is pretty basic

[Jonzac]

I've been wondering. In LU and earlier (with script) there was an option to have a station send money to your personal account over a set limit. Is there in Mayhem and I just missed it?

I find myself running out of pocket change for maintenance costs and I damage ships before I remember to transfer the money. If there was a way to send everything over an amount I choose (used to be from the command section where you can change the station name color now), that would be AWESOME.

Also one more question if possible.

I noticed the output and input of various stations dont match. Except for E-Cells and Ore. I understand that is hardcoded into the game. But a few examples. Chelt produces 20 but Rastor needs 24. Chemical produces 20 but Teleladiunium needs 30 (that at least looks like it was deliberate, but it doesn't make a ton of sense) The difference is weird when you look at other examples that match up. Paste produces 30 and Food needs 30,. Tele produces 30 and Hull needs 30.

So if this is in a script somewhere I can change myself, but if not can I ask the GREAT ONE to at lease consider changing the amounts.

Thanks

[Joubarbe]

Personal console -> Station settings.

You're talking about "RelVal", the most atrocious concept that rules the entire economy in X. This is a forbidden subject, we don't talk about this, except to invoke demons and practice witchcraft.

— it should work, but it doesn't —

[Jonzac]

I shall not speak of the "topic which shall NOT BE NAMED".

I'll just have to remember to pay more attention to my personal account.

Great work on this by the way, I love how the game plays out without everyone having jumpdrives.

[Hector0x]

Indeed, some production lines have wierd ratios. Chemical to Tel is 4:3. Chelt to Rastar is 5:4.
But in practice this doesn't really matter. You will be loosing random resources in storage fire events, from haulers getting killed, from factories idling for too long. You can also gain a fair amount of random resources from loot now.

It's likely that there will be some logistical inefficiencies causing further imbalance over time before you finally notice and find the time (mood) to fix them hours later.

There will certainly be times when some factories stop producing during your playthrough. Given the limited UI there is almost nothing you can do about this and it's better to even expect it. Mayhem 3 is like the worst economic game you can choose if you want everything working flawlessly all the time and can't stand situations which require you to adapt or change your initial plan or setups.

Maybe you build more and more factories but forgot to also ramp up your Agent count and end up with too few ships to keep up with the hauling. Maybe your worker range and Agent travel times are too high after a jump beacon got destroyed. Maybe you made a dumb mistake while setting up your Agent jobs, or forgot some of them entirely. Resources might be piling up in the wrong outposts. Or not get hauled away from factories at all. There will be empty factories flashing yellow. Full factories which don't even flash to garner your attention (full factories can only be identified if you specifically look for them).

Your economy can become a fairly well oiled machine. But it's unlikely that you play to a point where it doesn't need to be oiled or expanded at all anymore. And during your pursuit of creating the most well-oiled economy, countless problems will slip your attention. Embrace the change! I think in the end you should be prepared for imbalancies in your production chain and plan accordingly or the game can become very frustrating. A Chelt factory only producing 4/5 of the resources for a Rastar farm will be the least of your problems.

Now imagine you put your entire crystal production in one sector. This is tempting because it simplifies logistics. But it can certainly set you up for disaster if you stick to this playthrough long enough. Could you still haul your crystals to the other end of your empire without jump beacons? And what about some enemy occupying your sector? Could you even produce enough crystals elsewhere if you couldn't reach these factories for the time being?
Creating redundancy for situations like these tends to become the real issue after some time. And it feels quite rewarding to develop your very own solutions.

At least to some crazy niche fanbase with a knack for tycoon games


****, it became a long essay again, so:

TLDR:
1) Mayhem 3 is at least 51% an economy game. (more than Mayhem 2 in my opinion)
2) Managing and expanding your production will likely be a neverending story. The UI is cumbersome, but you generally don't need to act quickly either. (think "Factorio on Valium")
3) Expect problems which can force you to adapt and change your setup later on. You should evolve and treat your economy like an increasingly complex organism. Eventually you loose track or your nerves and stop playing. Or your economy/empire ends up as a very rewarding personal creation. Then you keep playing and most of it gets mapped in your brain which also counters the bad UI.

[Joubarbe]

You quickly get bored in Tycoon games that don't have any variable input / output. In OpenTTD, you can have a perfect economy, you're happy, it's boring (unless you have AI companies). In Transport Fever, you can't, things change (mostly randomly). In Capitalism Lab, even less, because it changes in a smart way (I highly recommend this niche game). The odd ratios of factories are not a big problem to me. IRL, factories are rarely working at 100%.

Actually, it would make more sense to imbalance all factories (but I won't change anything about the economy at this point; that would break all ongoing games for the player and the AI)

[Jonzac]

All of that for the factories is true...I need to, as we say when deployed, "Embrace the Suck" and get on with it.

I do wish the auto money transfer was a thing as I'm ALWAYS forgetting to have enough money.

[Joubarbe]

You didn't read my post:

Personal console -> Station settings

There you can auto transfer.

[Jonzac]

D'oh

Your right I did miss that. Thanks again!

edit

I shall have myself flogged with a wet pool noodle

[azxcvbnm321]

I have a question. One of my ship production outposts got the unfortunate event of the OCV virus. The event passed, but ships produced at that factory still turn into OCV ships and it's been a long time. Is there anything I can do to stop this from happening anymore? Or do I have to destroy the outpost? Thanks.

Also a comment about the economic system. I think it's a refreshing take on this game. However some base prices seem incredibly imbalanced relative to others. Ore and Quantum Tubes are far too cheap given the amount of steps and resources needed to produce them. Prices are relative, so cheap meaning relative to Microchips and Crystals, which have fewer input steps and resources needed. A good strategy for the player is just to buy all the Quantum Tubes, and then Ore if no Tubes left. I know it would probably make the game too generic if relative prices reflected the cost and resources of manufacture, many products would then have the same price (same base price that is) and it would all look the same. But that's something I wanted to point out, it's not game breaking and not even necessarily bad, it's just some feedback.

Edit: I forgot to say I also highly recommend Capitalism Labs. It's a really fun game for many many hours, until you monopolize everything and every product that is, but you can also change the settings to give technological catchup to AI firms that aren't as advanced as yours. This reflects the real world process of other firms copying and reverse engineering what you did so they don't have to invent the light bulb all over again once you've invented it.

[4square425]

I'm pretty sure I've asked this before, but I've started to invade Split territory in my game and are there any good ways to speed up conquering a sector once you've destroyed the enemy combat ships?

I've tried using the Invade Sector and Attack All Enemies fleet commands, but whenever a random Miner emerges from an adjacent wormhole, the whole fleet goes off chasing it instead of concentrating on stations. I've put my M2s and M7s into different fleets and tried using Priority Attack, but it doesn't keep them on the stations. Another thing I've done is send a carrier into the adjacent sector to keep small ships from entering the target sector, but that isn't going to work as well if the target sector has multiple adjacent sectors.

Essentially, is there a way to get multiple ships to concentrate on stations without having to do manually attack commands? It's probably hard-coded, but could the fleet settings of which ship category prioritizes which include stations? So I could set "Huge Ships in this fleet prioritize stations", while others in other fleets focus on enemy ships.

[Joubarbe]

@azxcvbnm321: There's a timer before a ship turns OCV. It's "infected" when you build it, then turns red after some time, meaning that the timer can still be on when the event ends.

@4square425: I can add a "Station" target priority. Combat scripts are entirely rewritten, nothing is hardcoded, except the attack itself (the manoeuvres a ship does to attack its target).

[Hector0x]

whenever a random Miner emerges from an adjacent wormhole, the whole fleet goes off chasing it instead of concentrating on stations.

If you really want to focus on stations:
- scanning range and follower scanning range to 0 and use fleet command "invade".
- but then your fleet won't properly react if a hostile fleet aproaches. (only individual ships would defend themselves when getting shot at)

So what i like to do instead:
- standart (commander) scanning range to 0
- this makes the commander go killing station after station

- follower scanning range @10-20km
- this makes all other ships react to approaching enemies, destroying them, and then get back to station destruction


So you end up with a big fleet blob which goes from station to station and also has a small ship killing zone around the commander.
Not the quickest method, but works well. There doesn't seem to be a way to "swarm out" while ignoring ships (but this wouldn't be needed in my opinion). I realized that the "dry-dock" perk isn't as powerful as i thought. It's good for buildup, but once you attack your fleets will often be in space for a long time.

EDIT: Ninja Panda said a station focus would be easy to implement