[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 9. Nov 19, 00:16

Kyle Baxter wrote:
Fri, 8. Nov 19, 22:44
Great! I've been really enjoying your mod so far, thanks btw. :) Will the update fix the Foragers that are already there?
Unfortunately no, they must be destroyed manually.
BTW, this was not something that can cause projectiles to fly through, if you will notice this again then its a vanilla problem with the mesh, I cant do anything about it.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 9. Nov 19, 00:27

Version 1.96

Changes:
- Teladi Phoenix turrets were moved to better location. To update player Phoenixes plese do the following:
1. Sell current L turrets from the ship on shipyard/EQ dock
2. Let the ship undock
3. Buy L turrets again, they now should be on correct new locations
- Khaak stations are now destructible
- ARG, TEL, PAR now can have up to 2 carrier groups. Carrier groups now have more fighters (in vanilla its 6-10 fighters per carrier :? )

Balance:
- small adjustment of firepower for all L turrets to make them a bit more balanced against each other
- Khaak fighters a bit lowered health
- plasma bomb rebalanced a bit, was OP in players hands

Fixes:
- fixed few effect that could cause fps drop
- Khaak Forager was lacking cockpit so was not able to move or do any order. fix will influence only newly spawned ships

Rastuasi
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Rastuasi » Sat, 9. Nov 19, 17:34

Got another freeze on Linux, this time I wasn't firing a weapon, just idling on a dock. I know on my unmodded game I've spent 3 real days idle with no issues, but once this is installed, it froze after a few hours. Any thoughts on what I can provide to help debug?

Edit: upon restarting computer and game, I'm noticing the ram climbing about .1 GB per 15 minutes of idling. Will test over more hours on both unmodded and modded.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 9. Nov 19, 18:02

Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 9. Nov 19, 17:34
Got another freeze on Linux, this time I wasn't firing a weapon, just idling on a dock. I know on my unmodded game I've spent 3 real days idle with no issues, but once this is installed, it froze after a few hours. Any thoughts on what I can provide to help debug?

Edit: upon restarting computer and game, I'm noticing the ram climbing about .1 GB per 15 minutes of idling. Will test over more hours on both unmodded and modded.
Hm, I guess the culprit is the Linux version, I have no idea what is the difference in how they work and have no idea what to suggest.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Rastuasi » Sat, 9. Nov 19, 18:07

Shuulo wrote:
Sat, 9. Nov 19, 18:02
Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 9. Nov 19, 17:34
Got another freeze on Linux, this time I wasn't firing a weapon, just idling on a dock. I know on my unmodded game I've spent 3 real days idle with no issues, but once this is installed, it froze after a few hours. Any thoughts on what I can provide to help debug?

Edit: upon restarting computer and game, I'm noticing the ram climbing about .1 GB per 15 minutes of idling. Will test over more hours on both unmodded and modded.
Hm, I guess the culprit is the Linux version, I have no idea what is the difference in how they work and have no idea what to suggest.
Are there log files I could provide?

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 9. Nov 19, 19:07

Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 9. Nov 19, 18:07

Are there log files I could provide?
You can use the following launch option (set in in properties in steam): -debug all -logfile x4debug.log -scriptlogfiles
This will create debug file in your X4 documents folder. Though, to be honest, it may not capture what is causing the problem, as it would otherwise do so for Windows install, and I didn't get any such complaints as of yet.
If your game freezes due to RAM problem, it may be just a problem with how Linux install handles some assets, if that is true there is nothing i can do unless you can send the dump file (if game generates one) to Egosoft.

Are you using any other mod btw?

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Rastuasi » Sat, 9. Nov 19, 21:07

Shuulo wrote:
Sat, 9. Nov 19, 19:07
Rastuasi wrote:
Sat, 9. Nov 19, 18:07

Are there log files I could provide?
You can use the following launch option (set in in properties in steam): -debug all -logfile x4debug.log -scriptlogfiles
This will create debug file in your X4 documents folder. Though, to be honest, it may not capture what is causing the problem, as it would otherwise do so for Windows install, and I didn't get any such complaints as of yet.
If your game freezes due to RAM problem, it may be just a problem with how Linux install handles some assets, if that is true there is nothing i can do unless you can send the dump file (if game generates one) to Egosoft.

Are you using any other mod btw?
Not fully sure it's a RAM issue, I have 64GB, but I did see it continuing to rise, albeit slowing down around 7.2GB. Unmodded stops at 5GB for same idle time. I'll try outputting and see what it might say if I can get a freeze again.

Angsaar
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Angsaar » Sat, 23. Nov 19, 07:24

Hey Shuu, did the surface element shield hit effect always work for you? Been a while since I tried it, I either don't recall it working before (it's somewhat subtle) or it started working again at some point.

Edit: I finally found out why the smoke was looking so gray too, I forgot to check how X4 changed it's shader. :roll:

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 23. Nov 19, 14:22

Angsaar wrote:
Sat, 23. Nov 19, 07:24
Hey Shuu, did the surface element shield hit effect always work for you? Been a while since I tried it, I either don't recall it working before (it's somewhat subtle) or it started working again at some point.

Edit: I finally found out why the smoke was looking so gray too, I forgot to check how X4 changed it's shader. :roll:
It works occasionaly, but i didnt paid enough attention to be sure.

phrozen1
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by phrozen1 » Sun, 8. Dec 19, 02:13

I'm playing with 3.0 Beta at the moment and it's literally a shocking contrast.
Your mod makes it so much more fun and i can't stop thinking, this is how the combat should work in the first place.
So keep up the great work, looking forward to play X4:SV with your mod ;)
And i hope X4 vanilla combat gets a total overhaul at some point because it's a joke ;)

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 8. Dec 19, 23:15

phrozen1 wrote:
Sun, 8. Dec 19, 02:13
I'm playing with 3.0 Beta at the moment and it's literally a shocking contrast.
Your mod makes it so much more fun and i can't stop thinking, this is how the combat should work in the first place.
So keep up the great work, looking forward to play X4:SV with your mod ;)
And i hope X4 vanilla combat gets a total overhaul at some point because it's a joke ;)
Thanks, I also hope vanilla will take something from my view at some point.
For now im working on VRO 2.0 with many-many changes, like a dozen new weapons, internal shield generators, totally overhauled missiles and more. Here is some tease.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Sun, 8. Dec 19, 23:40

Hi, I got a question about this part of your changelog:
Note: M turrets are still not destructible as provided fix in 2.6 was not as good as I hoped, ill continue tests and will try to find a solution.
Why dont you just buff the HP of the modules? I did that for all destructable modules (shields, engines, turrets) and I think its better than making them completely indestructable.

Another question:
Where is the gattling gun M sized turret? Your names are a bit confusing because no one knows what kind of weapon a CIWS or Hunter turret is.

Nice mod!
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 9. Dec 19, 01:55

Max Bain wrote:
Sun, 8. Dec 19, 23:40
Hi, I got a question about this part of your changelog:
Note: M turrets are still not destructible as provided fix in 2.6 was not as good as I hoped, ill continue tests and will try to find a solution.
Why dont you just buff the HP of the modules? I did that for all destructable modules (shields, engines, turrets) and I think its better than making them completely indestructable.

Another question:
Where is the gattling gun M sized turret? Your names are a bit confusing because no one knows what kind of weapon a CIWS or Hunter turret is.

Nice mod!
Turrets are destructible as of 2.0 (that will be released somewhere alongside 3.0), so no worries, their HP and OOS combat parameters around them are also updated. Just buffing turret HP without adjusting OOS combat parameters gives ships HP buffer, so ships with more turrets actually will have more HP in OOS than those that have less turrets, even if by hull stats its the opposite.

Not all guns have turret counterparts, while CIWS is gatling it has different stats and behavior, and I thought CIWS is a perfect name for it both in function and role. As for hunter turret, I just liked the name, its just a general turret, Jack-of-all-trades, it is also not represented in non-turreted version.

And boost is back, just in case you are wondering.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Mon, 9. Dec 19, 06:51

I suggest to give the weapons an additional tag in the name or at least in the description so players don't need to try the weapon to know what it is.

Something like:
CIWS - Gatling turret / Autocannon
Hunter - Laser turret
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Tue, 10. Dec 19, 18:36

When can we expect new M sized turrets? :D
I think these are the most used weapons in mid - late game but there are only 6 turrets + 2 missiles.
Some more are very much appreciated :)

One idea:

- Long range artillery gun with low ROF but big damage

Big suggestion:

- Add pictures to the turrets. I think you dont need to create your own pics because the models are already copies of exiting ones, so taking the same pic would be perfect.
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 10. Dec 19, 18:59

Max Bain wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 18:36
When can we expect new M sized turrets? :D
I think these are the most used weapons in mid - late game but there are only 6 turrets + 2 missiles.
Some more are very much appreciated :)

One idea:

- Long range artillery gun with low ROF but big damage

Big suggestion:

- Add pictures to the turrets. I think you dont need to create your own pics because the models are already copies of exiting ones, so taking the same pic would be perfect.
Updating pictures is in plan, and will come after all balancing is done.
As for m-turrets, I consider argons to have flak, paranids railgun and thinking on teladies, any idea?

Max Bain
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Tue, 10. Dec 19, 19:12

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 18:59
Max Bain wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 18:36
When can we expect new M sized turrets? :D
I think these are the most used weapons in mid - late game but there are only 6 turrets + 2 missiles.
Some more are very much appreciated :)

One idea:

- Long range artillery gun with low ROF but big damage

Big suggestion:

- Add pictures to the turrets. I think you dont need to create your own pics because the models are already copies of exiting ones, so taking the same pic would be perfect.
Updating pictures is in plan, and will come after all balancing is done.
As for m-turrets, I consider argons to have flak, paranids railgun and thinking on teladies, any idea?
You can give races more than just one unique different weapon/turret.
For example you can make teladi focus on beam weapons, so giving them several different turrets shooting with different colored beams, some with bursts, some without.
Argons have more common used kinetic weapons like gatling guns or artillery/cannon weapons.
Paranidmaybe focus on lasers or plasma with different colors, bursts or single shots.

But all factions should have at least one version of most weapon type (like they do right now) so combat looks more interesting and some people (like me) want to have a big variation on the ships while playing just one race.

Edit: maybe it is also a cnice idea to identify races by their weapon color:
Argons use red and yellow-ish projectiles/beams
Teladi use blue and purple weapons
Paranid maybe green
Neutral colors like gatling guns or shotgun are for all factions the same maybe.
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 10. Dec 19, 23:13

I also need to consider proper role and balance for each weapon, having just more of them is not the best thing if their purpose and/or role and/or feel is blurred. I want them to be distinct and balanced, this takes a bit of time to think though)
At least in VRO 2.0 i have 3 new turrets, 2 new M guns, 3 new S guns in addition to anything 3.0 brings

Angsaar
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Angsaar » Wed, 11. Dec 19, 01:18

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 18:59
As for m-turrets, I consider argons to have flak, paranids railgun and thinking on teladies, any idea?
Something energy with good accuracy and sustain, maybe ? Not wasting resources on ammo seems fitting with Teladi efficiency.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Wed, 11. Dec 19, 10:33

One thing I noticed is that all ships nearly always mount just one type of M sized turrets. I checked it for 8 Paranid ships and all ships had Plasma turrets mounted for their M sized turrets. Argon ships seem to use just flak turrets.
I think this is a vanilla problem, but maybe you can do something about it?

When I remember right, someone told me that this has something to do with the prices of the turrets. Because Plasma turret is most expensive for Paranids (they dont have the more expensive flak) they have only plasma. Flak is more expensive so all Argons use flak.
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

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