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fiksal
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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Mon, 31. Dec 18, 07:02

Every time I hear the "deep state" I think it's pretty valid to ignore the "point" entirely.

This along with chemtrails, aliens and illuminati should go to another thread, dedicated to that.
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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Mon, 31. Dec 18, 07:54

Just in case you have yet to see this film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYmYqAKbIQ
Fahrenheit 11/9 by Michael Moore..
Donald Trump and his cronies took the USA from the control of the electorate - and they did it in plain sight..

- the same thing is about to happen in the UK with Brexit..
- in the UK, the vast majority of state assets have already been handed to the private sector
- we are at the mercy of private wealth, and you can bet that this will NOT be a level playing field..
- you can't say that you weren't warned.. :doh: :doh:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: Trump

Post by pjknibbs » Mon, 31. Dec 18, 08:34

BugMeister wrote:
Mon, 31. Dec 18, 07:54
- the same thing is about to happen in the UK with Brexit..
Except the whole point of Brexit is that it's what the voting public wanted to happen in the referendum. We can dislike that outcome as much as we like, but calling it somehow anti-democratic makes no sense.

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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Mon, 31. Dec 18, 09:20

No offence, but..
in saying that, you are merely stating that you accept the status quo - you are laying down in front of a steamroller - blithely asking, "What's the worst that can happen?"
you are effectively admitting defeat - the constitution of the UK has been rocked to its very foundations, and you say "So what - what constitution?"

- perhaps you really are not giving this matter enough thought..
- parliament is already in thrall to big money, they are operating on a globalist level - you can only oppose them at a local level..
- you will have no rights whatsoever when they start re-writing the constitution to suit their own agenda..
- you will become nothing more than a pawn in their game..

- the vast majority of this nation's wealth is held off-shore..
- ask yourself why..

- they don't trust you - yet you willingly give them carte-blanche..
- think!
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Mon, 31. Dec 18, 12:50

fiksal wrote:
Mon, 31. Dec 18, 07:02
Every time I hear the "deep state" I think it's pretty valid to ignore the "point" entirely.

This along with chemtrails, aliens and illuminati should go to another thread, dedicated to that.
"Deep-State Aliens Conspire with Illuminati to Release Mind-Control Chemtrails"

That headline would make half the internet nut all over themselves. It has it all! Half the internetz would be rushing to create a subreddit to discuss it and the other half would be lulzing their way there with heaps of "proof" pics and mysterious personas posting "Gubbermint Sekrets Plans."

And... Trump would probably Tweet about it as soon as the saturation level got high enough in far-right social/political-entertainment media outlets. Holy Crap, that'd be a blast! Get Trump talking about "Deep State Aliens" or the "Illuminati." I would crap myself laughing.

Just a general note: Things aren't as complicated as people tend to think they are in Washington. Sure, relationships, favors, etc, exist among lawmakers, but there isn't any group anywhere that is coordinated enough to pull off any grand conspiracy to do friggin' anything. Even if they were, someone would leak it for their own benefit or just become some White Knight in hope of gaining opposition votes. Things might get a bit deeper with the power-structure inside various agencies, but any sort of cabal that supposedly exists that could act as a "Deep State" HAS TO BE THE MOST INEPT BUNCH OF IDIOTS THERE COULD POSSIBLY BE.

<Looks at Washington. Nothing being done. SNAFU>

Politicians are addicted to votes. "Votes" are the drug of choice and they don't care how they obtain them. If there's any conspiracy, cabal, or "Deep State," I guarantee its only purpose is to get votes since that is all anyone cares about. Votes>ALL

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Masterbagger
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 03:06

BugMeister wrote:
Mon, 31. Dec 18, 07:54
Just in case you have yet to see this film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYmYqAKbIQ
Fahrenheit 11/9 by Michael Moore..
Donald Trump and his cronies took the USA from the control of the electorate - and they did it in plain sight..

- the same thing is about to happen in the UK with Brexit..
- in the UK, the vast majority of state assets have already been handed to the private sector
- we are at the mercy of private wealth, and you can bet that this will NOT be a level playing field..
- you can't say that you weren't warned.. :doh: :doh:
Here are your 2016 election results.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 16.svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ty.svg.png

You have two choices. The election was stolen. The election wasn't stolen. You need to explore both. What follows the second is examining why your platform failed and figuring out how to appeal to voters next election. I don't think democrats have done that at all. They are still fighting 2016 and their entire platform now is fighting whatever it is President Trump wants to do even it is a net benefit to America. That is harmful to everyone.
Who made that man a gunner?

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fiksal
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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 04:17

Morkonan wrote:
Mon, 31. Dec 18, 12:50
"Deep-State Aliens Conspire with Illuminati to Release Mind-Control Chemtrails"

That headline would make half the internet nut all over themselves. It has it all! Half the internetz would be rushing to create a subreddit to discuss it and the other half would be lulzing their way there with heaps of "proof" pics and mysterious personas posting "Gubbermint Sekrets Plans."
And of course the only solution is to purchase special anti-lizard lubricant. Act now and do what globalists wouldnt want you to do!

... we could make so much money

Masterbagger wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 03:06
They are still fighting 2016 and their entire platform now is fighting whatever it is President Trump wants to do even it is a net benefit to America. That is harmful to everyone.
No, not everyone. It's not harmful to me. I've not yet benefited from Trump's presidency.
Still waiting.
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 06:09

fiksal wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 04:17


No, not everyone. It's not harmful to me. I've not yet benefited from Trump's presidency.
Still waiting.
You been harmed by it? And not just your feels? None of the hysteria promised by democrats and CNN happened. He didn't nuke anyone. He didn't crash the economy. He didn't start a war in Korea. Next work day you are going to wake up, brush your teeth, go do work, and come home. Just like everyone else. Your life will go on just like mine and all the feelings you have about our President Trump won't matter.
Who made that man a gunner?

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fiksal
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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 06:21

Masterbagger wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 06:09
fiksal wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 04:17


No, not everyone. It's not harmful to me. I've not yet benefited from Trump's presidency.
Still waiting.
You been harmed by it? And not just your feels? None of the hysteria promised by democrats and CNN happened. He didn't nuke anyone. He didn't crash the economy. He didn't start a war in Korea. Next work day you are going to wake up, brush your teeth, go do work, and come home. Just like everyone else. Your life will go on just like mine and all the feelings you have about our President Trump won't matter.
I dont have what you kids call "feels".

Which hysteria you refer to? Pretty sure everything that people were worried about Trump had actually happened, I dont know if anything is missing.

Ah those two. Korea and economy are not the greatest right now. Trump almost baited a crazier nut than he is into something dumb. That didnt happen, apparently thanks to the North Korea nut. That feels dirty.
So, wait, was it ever optimistic in the Republican pond concerning North Korea? Really?


I suppose, you can say I have been personally harmed.

For one, Trump is solely responsible for removing Net Neutrality. This is a direct hit against my job as a programmer in the entertainment industry; and just as user and consumer of content. And it's not by mistake or due to lack of knowledge, that was deliberate.
Two; I am looking at my investments and the last year was crap. Thanks, Trump's tariffs. When can we get someone financially responsible.

But you are right, my family was not detained by mistake at a border; I was not separated permanently or semi permanently from my kid. Nor I was made an enemy of the state. And as a Russian, I know well what that label means.
Jokes on those people, eh?
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Masterbagger
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 06:49

fiksal wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 06:21


I dont have what you kids call "feels".

Which hysteria you refer to? Pretty sure everything that people were worried about Trump had actually happened, I dont know if anything is missing.

Ah those two. Korea and economy are not the greatest right now. Trump almost baited a crazier nut than he is into something dumb. That didnt happen, apparently thanks to the North Korea nut. So, wait, was it ever optimistic in the Republican pond?


I suppose, you can say I have been personally harmed.

For one, Trump is solely responsible for removing Net Neutrality. This is a direct hit against my job as a programmer in the entertainment industry; and just as user and consumer of content.
Two; I am looking at my investments and the last year was crap. Thanks, Trump's tariffs.

But you are right, my family was not detained by mistake at a border; I was not separated permanently or semi permanently from my kid. Nor I was made an enemy of the state. And as a Russian, I know well what that label means.
Your condescension in referring to me as kid is noted and mocked. Your attitude that the outcome in Korea you were hysterical about that didn't happen but could have happened and justifies hysteria is noted and mocked. Your opinion on net neutrality differs from mine but I respect your right to have it. Your investments have no bearing on my politics and at most reflect poor judgement on your part. Your decision not to illegally immigrate to my country is wise.

Carry on.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 07:38

I cant tell if you are satisfied with my answer

you hurt my feelzzz
Masterbagger wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 06:49
Your condescension in referring to me as kid is noted and mocked.
use the kids slang, you get the treatment
Your decision not to illegally immigrate to my country is wise.
The country equally yours as it is mine
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 08:56

fiksal wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 07:38

The country equally yours as it is mine
No. It really isn't. If you come here illegally you have to go back. If you come here legally it would behoove you to learn our ways and assimilate into our culture. If you want to live in Texas buy some cowboy boots and a hat or don't complain if you don't fit in with the locals.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Morkonan
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 10:25

Masterbagger wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 08:56
fiksal wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 07:38

The country equally yours as it is mine
No. It really isn't. If you come here illegally you have to go back. If you come here legally it would behoove you to learn our ways and assimilate into our culture. If you want to live in Texas buy some cowboy boots and a hat or don't complain if you don't fit in with the locals.
He has a right to apply and be a citizen in just as much a capacity as you are, with certain small exceptions for high political office. There is no distinguishing between being born a citizen or naturalized in the US except for that. (AFAIK) That's not necessarily the case in some other countries.

A US Citizen is a US Citizen. I do agree that if they're here illegally they must go through the process. However, I, being a US Citizen that believes in our Constitution and the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence, am bound to treat them with respect, honoring what I believe are the Universal Rights of "All." Inasmuch as that is concerned, I wouldn't treat an illegal immigrant differently than a legal one. (Bounded by the law, of course.)

I ain't buying no cowboy boots unless someone makes a horse carry me around... The hat might be cool, though. But, I'd feel silly in it and couldn't wear it outside of Texas or some Midwest states, I guess. As far as regionalism is concerned, I'm not quite sure how many self-assured Texans have disappeared in the swamps of the South while stomping around in cowboy boots. Just don't bother Bubba and if you're in the swamp and it looks like a log, it probably ain't a log... :)

PS - Believe it or not, there really are people that come to the US fleeing terrible conditions and wanting to actually be free to chart their own destiny with the sweat from their own brow, rather than lying dead in a gutter in some backstreet barrio somewhere because they refused to allow themselves or their families to be brutalized. Immigrants, legal or not, don't come here because of Taco Tuesday at Taco Bell. (They still have that, don't they?)

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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 15:51

..unless you're Clutch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuphcpY5a5A

- how to shake hands.. :lol:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 16:05

Masterbagger wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 08:56
fiksal wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 07:38

The country equally yours as it is mine
No. It really isn't. If you come here illegally you have to go back. If you come here legally it would behoove you to learn our ways and assimilate into our culture. If you want to live in Texas buy some cowboy boots and a hat or don't complain if you don't fit in with the locals.
Yes it really is. I am a US citizen, buddy.

But compared to you, I had to earn the citizenship.

... Though just to make sure, are you a US citizen?
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Re: Trump

Post by Usenko » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 16:32

Morkonan wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 10:25
PS - Believe it or not, there really are people that come to the US fleeing terrible conditions and wanting to actually be free to chart their own destiny with the sweat from their own brow, rather than lying dead in a gutter in some backstreet barrio somewhere because they refused to allow themselves or their families to be brutalized. Immigrants, legal or not, don't come here because of Taco Tuesday at Taco Bell. (They still have that, don't they?)
Interesting that you touch on this.

The general consensus of international law is that a person has the right to seek asylum in another country. Now, I am aware that there are different interpretations on what constitutes a valid claim to asylum. Nevertheless, it would seem to me that a country cannot declare a person's immigration to be illegal until their case for asylum has at least been heard. Point being, a lot of those who are described as coming to the USA illegally actually aren't (yet, at least).
Morkonan wrote:What really happened isn't as exciting. Putin flexed his left thigh during his morning ride on a flying bear, right after beating fifty Judo blackbelts, which he does upon rising every morning. (Not that Putin sleeps, it's just that he doesn't want to make others feel inadequate.)

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Re: Trump

Post by Chips » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 16:39

Masterbagger wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 08:56
If you want to live in Texas buy some cowboy boots and a hat or don't complain if you don't fit in with the locals.
Is that a requirement of citizenship? I know it's not meant to be taken literally, but I'm unaware that gaining citizenship means you should abandon individuality or heritage and become part of the sheep. Be amenable and sensitive to it? Sure. Try it and embrace it? Absolutely - but only the bits you want to. But unaware it's a mandated requirement... and it shouldn't be (imo) :)

If it weren't for the immigrants bringing all types of delicious foods, in the UK we'd be sat down to yet another helping of faggots and potatoes - instead of Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Greek, Turkish, Arabic, Spanish, Italian - and dare i say it - French cuisine. I'd feel sorry if all those ancestors had to endure British cuisine only (I'm aware some lovely British food, but... most of it isn't). I chose food as a very limited example as... well, it's related to the beer I'm drinking :D

The general consensus of international law is that a person has the right to seek asylum in another country
I think it's actually a person has the right to seek... if their own country can neither protect them or persecutes them. I can't just arrive in the US as a British citizen and claim asylum, and they then have to prove it's balderdash in order to remove me. Therefore, not everyone has the right to claim asylum unless they're fleeing something specific. Economic hardship, for example, is not a ground for asylum. If the entire asylum procedure/agreement was demeaned in the way of frivolous claims then it'd undermine and reduce it's acceptability. It needs to be preserved for it's true purpose, not misappropriated by people just because...

Additionally, individual countries have their own rules as to what is constituting a valid claim. The EU, for example, has a harmonious one I think, whereas the US one is applicable to... the US. The reality is they're probably all near enough identical anyway.

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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Tue, 1. Jan 19, 19:05

Usenko wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 16:32
Morkonan wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 10:25
PS - Believe it or not, there really are people that come to the US fleeing terrible conditions and wanting to actually be free to chart their own destiny with the sweat from their own brow, rather than lying dead in a gutter in some backstreet barrio somewhere because they refused to allow themselves or their families to be brutalized. Immigrants, legal or not, don't come here because of Taco Tuesday at Taco Bell. (They still have that, don't they?)
Interesting that you touch on this.

The general consensus of international law is that a person has the right to seek asylum in another country. Now, I am aware that there are different interpretations on what constitutes a valid claim to asylum. Nevertheless, it would seem to me that a country cannot declare a person's immigration to be illegal until their case for asylum has at least been heard. Point being, a lot of those who are described as coming to the USA illegally actually aren't (yet, at least).
Like any process it is subject to abuse.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 2. Jan 19, 07:01

I find this... interesting: Russian bank gave Le Pens party a loan then weird things started happening.

Lions and tigers and moneylaundering, oh my!

So, anyone else remember when there was a flurry of communication between Trump Tower and "some Russian bank?" Hmm?

It is illegal for a campaign to accept financial donations from a foreign power. Could this Washington Post article, coming from people who just love to investigate the Presidency, shows a pattern of behavior that we may find evidence of in Mueller's report?
Usenko wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 16:32
...Interesting that you touch on this.
The do have to "Apply" though. They can't just walk in and start looking for a job. And, the catch is that Immigration could find that they aren't eligible for asylum.
Masterbagger wrote:
Tue, 1. Jan 19, 19:05
Like any process it is subject to abuse.
Very much in agreement.

It's just that it isn't always abused. If I'm standing on one side of a border crossing and some whacko is shooting at me, I'm going to run for cover. If that happens to be on the other side of the border, so be it. At that point I may be an "illegal immigrant," but I've got some mitigating circumstances. When the shooting dies down, though, I should declare myself and enter the legitimate immigration process if I plan to stay.

"Economic Immigration" though - That's not in the same process. IF some very vocal groups would start focusing on the real issue, maybe we could advance the discussion as a nation.

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Re: Trump

Post by Usenko » Wed, 2. Jan 19, 12:14

Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 2. Jan 19, 07:01

It's just that it isn't always abused. If I'm standing on one side of a border crossing and some whacko is shooting at me, I'm going to run for cover. If that happens to be on the other side of the border, so be it. At that point I may be an "illegal immigrant," but I've got some mitigating circumstances. When the shooting dies down, though, I should declare myself and enter the legitimate immigration process if I plan to stay.

"Economic Immigration" though - That's not in the same process. IF some very vocal groups would start focusing on the real issue, maybe we could advance the discussion as a nation.
If we consider ourselves the "good guys" then it seems absolutely obvious that we should provisionally accept people first, and protect them IN CASE they're on the run for their lives. In the rich countries (America, Australia, the UK, Germany and practically anywhere else people from this forum might come from) we have sufficient excess of resources that we can afford it without missing it.

Frankly we whinge and moan about refugees in numbers that are absolutely tiny. The biggest issue in Australian border protection is the so-called "Boat people" (asylum seekers arriving by boat). In a bad year we might get as many as 2000. Putting that in perspective, that would be about the same as the number of legitimate arrivals in TWO HOURS. It's not a significant number. What we SHOULD be doing is taking those people in, working out the details and sending any who don't qualify home (and if that process takes years, that's fine - we can afford to take the time to do it right).

Those countries sharing land borders with large numbers of refugees have a more difficult problem, I accept - but even there, walls and fortifications are only going to make the problem worse. Again, the best approach is to immediately take steps to protect anyone who tries to enter, then work out who is legit and who is not.
Morkonan wrote:What really happened isn't as exciting. Putin flexed his left thigh during his morning ride on a flying bear, right after beating fifty Judo blackbelts, which he does upon rising every morning. (Not that Putin sleeps, it's just that he doesn't want to make others feel inadequate.)

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