Can we see actual gameplay?

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keno1999
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by keno1999 » Thu, 11. Oct 18, 06:22

Hi all, this is my 1st post on the forum, but I'm a long time fan of the X-series.

Just wanted to say that I was a bit surprised that the gameplay trailer didn't have a lot of actual gameplay in it. It just felt like a narrated cinematic montage. Don't get me wrong, I liked it, and I liked hearing how great the game is going to be, but calling it a gameplay trailer is simply inaccurate. It's ok if Egosoft doesn't want to do a actual gameplay trailer, but I think they really shouldn't try to pass a cinematic trailer off as one though.

Full disclosure, my friend at work and I both preordered the CE version today knowing full well that there would likely be bugs but also knowing that Egosoft has a solid reputation for supporting their games for the long run. That fact alone is what leaves me confident enough to preorder, and I am happy to help support this development team.

One bit of advice for the devs though, if you don't have time reserved in the development plan to live steam the major game features this time, that's ok, but you absolutely need to fix that for X5. Honestly, the days of devs not live streaming for their community are over, this is the new normal, so you really need to get with the times on this one, no excuses.

In order to end on a more happy note, I'd like to sincerely thank whoever chose to release this on a Friday! Way to go! I am planning to spend that entire weekend playing the game. I'd also like to send my best regards to all the devs for my many happy hours with X3 and I wish you all a successful launch with X4!

Cheers!

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sd_jasper
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by sd_jasper » Thu, 11. Oct 18, 15:08

Either you misunderstood what you saw, or you and I have very different definitions of "cinematic trailer". To me a cinematic is like what Blizzard, BioWare, and others do, where the footage is not rendered in-engine, but created (often by an outside studio such as Blur) and often contains action that the player can't perform themselves in game. I HATE this sort of thing, as it always makes me feel like all the "cool stuff" is there, and what I can do as a player is less-cool stuff.

There isn't much I've seen for X4 that I would call this type of cinematic. It's all rendered in engine, and I am going to guess that most of it was done with someone working basically as the player, navigating around in ship or on foot. Now they might have given a ship orders and then taken footage, or watched an NPC ship engage in battle. But all of that is still gameplay that the player could experience in game.

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StoneLegionYT
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by StoneLegionYT » Thu, 11. Oct 18, 15:20

How did this go to wanting to see gameplay to whining about ordering the game?

XD733
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by XD733 » Thu, 11. Oct 18, 18:25

sd_jasper wrote:
Thu, 11. Oct 18, 15:08
Either you misunderstood what you saw, or you and I have very different definitions of "cinematic trailer". To me a cinematic is like what Blizzard, BioWare, and others do, where the footage is not rendered in-engine, but created (often by an outside studio such as Blur) and often contains action that the player can't perform themselves in game. I HATE this sort of thing, as it always makes me feel like all the "cool stuff" is there, and what I can do as a player is less-cool stuff.

There isn't much I've seen for X4 that I would call this type of cinematic. It's all rendered in engine, and I am going to guess that most of it was done with someone working basically as the player, navigating around in ship or on foot. Now they might have given a ship orders and then taken footage, or watched an NPC ship engage in battle. But all of that is still gameplay that the player could experience in game.
Maybe the disconnect is that it seems like the purpose of a gameplay video is to show actual gameplay and give a sense of what the game will be like.

But what we got, even if it involved some video from a player's view, wasn't really intended to give a sense of what the actual moment-to-moment gameplay would be like.

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sd_jasper
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by sd_jasper » Thu, 11. Oct 18, 18:46

XD733 wrote:
Thu, 11. Oct 18, 18:25
Maybe the disconnect is that it seems like the purpose of a gameplay video is to show actual gameplay and give a sense of what the game will be like.

But what we got, even if it involved some video from a player's view, wasn't really intended to give a sense of what the actual moment-to-moment gameplay would be like.
Ah, that makes sense. Maybe the distinction should be something like "gameplay demonstration" vs "gameplay overview" (which is what we got).

spacecoyote99
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by spacecoyote99 » Thu, 11. Oct 18, 18:54

ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Wed, 10. Oct 18, 19:41

I cite again, the example of Spacebase DF-9. I backed it because the premise was interesting: a space game styled after Dwarf Fortress. Some time later, the devs abandoned it, and cited a very weak reason. They then had the gall to start a Kickstarter campaign to make Psychonauts 2. The community had a mixed reaction of laughing at them, and insulting them.
You backed an unfinished product by a (mostly) unknown developer that ended up turning their back on the game. That's terrible and they should be denounced, fully agreed.

Egosoft has a long, long history of supporting their games for an unreasonable number of years after release. This is why I feel 100% confident about my preorder.

ZombiePotatoSalad
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by ZombiePotatoSalad » Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:07

spacecoyote99 wrote:
Thu, 11. Oct 18, 18:54
ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Wed, 10. Oct 18, 19:41

I cite again, the example of Spacebase DF-9. I backed it because the premise was interesting: a space game styled after Dwarf Fortress. Some time later, the devs abandoned it, and cited a very weak reason. They then had the gall to start a Kickstarter campaign to make Psychonauts 2. The community had a mixed reaction of laughing at them, and insulting them.
You backed an unfinished product by a (mostly) unknown developer that ended up turning their back on the game. That's terrible and they should be denounced, fully agreed.

Egosoft has a long, long history of supporting their games for an unreasonable number of years after release. This is why I feel 100% confident about my preorder.
Yeah, but you can see where my trepidation comes from.

I know Egosoft has a history of delivering and being all-around solid developers. They even helped one of my favorite Youtubers, Willfe, when YouTube was giving him grief. I was already hooked from what I saw in the trailer. Yes, I'd love to see more, not only to tide me over until release, but to confirm what was in the trailer is what we will get, rather than stuff taken out of context. I bought No Man's Sky back when it first launched, and you know how that went.

Also, the Q&A is a year out of date, and consists of many non-answers. Isn't it time for a new one, since things have changed since then?
The Teladi are known for creating a standardized currency, ship insurance, and insurance fraud.

Falcrack
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Falcrack » Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:22

ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:07
Also, the Q&A is a year out of date, and consists of many non-answers. Isn't it time for a new one, since things have changed since then?
In addition, many many relevant questions have been asked since that Q&A which have gone 100% unanswered to this point.

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by ZombiePotatoSalad » Fri, 12. Oct 18, 06:01

Falcrack wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:22
ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:07
Also, the Q&A is a year out of date, and consists of many non-answers. Isn't it time for a new one, since things have changed since then?
In addition, many many relevant questions have been asked since that Q&A which have gone 100% unanswered to this point.
Agreed. All I'd like to see is a small segment of gameplay with live commentary, warts and all. If something breaks, so it goes. No game is perfect, especially at launch. I'd be happy just seeing some mining, trading, flying in space, whatever. None of those are spoilers any more than what we've already seen.
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reanor
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by reanor » Fri, 12. Oct 18, 20:12

ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 06:01
Falcrack wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:22
ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:07
Also, the Q&A is a year out of date, and consists of many non-answers. Isn't it time for a new one, since things have changed since then?
In addition, many many relevant questions have been asked since that Q&A which have gone 100% unanswered to this point.
Agreed. All I'd like to see is a small segment of gameplay with live commentary, warts and all. If something breaks, so it goes. No game is perfect, especially at launch. I'd be happy just seeing some mining, trading, flying in space, whatever. None of those are spoilers any more than what we've already seen.
You are probably referring to the Star Citizen open development, where you can see things crash every time they do CitizenCon. Egosoft is not doing open development, it's closed door development and we get to see only what they want us to get to see. Now, the above posters mentioned that Egosoft has a good reputation on delivering the game, but we also know that they have a reputation on releasing very buggy games. The bugs followed them pretty much since the days of X1. They did always end up polishing and fixing majority of the bugs, even though in some cases it took years (hello XR), but eventually they did do make every game playable and enjoyable. I am not an advocate for releasing buggy and unfinished game, but we are all ready for the next X game installment. From what I understand, they are working hard to test it right now and get it as polished as possible, before the release on 11/30. I hope it almost goes smoother than previous releases, but again, since its a closed development, unlike Star Citizen, we won't get to see the game play in process of breaking and freezing, that won't help them at all. Also, if you go their YouTube channel, there are some early WIP videos, where they demonstrate game mechanics. I think one of the videos showed them building stations etc.
Last edited by reanor on Fri, 12. Oct 18, 21:47, edited 1 time in total.
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ZombiePotatoSalad
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by ZombiePotatoSalad » Fri, 12. Oct 18, 20:21

reanor wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 20:12
ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 06:01
Falcrack wrote:
Fri, 12. Oct 18, 04:22


In addition, many many relevant questions have been asked since that Q&A which have gone 100% unanswered to this point.
Agreed. All I'd like to see is a small segment of gameplay with live commentary, warts and all. If something breaks, so it goes. No game is perfect, especially at launch. I'd be happy just seeing some mining, trading, flying in space, whatever. None of those are spoilers any more than what we've already seen.
You are probably referring to the Star Citizen open development, where you can see things crash every time they do CitizenCon. Egosoft is not doing open development, it's closed door development and we get to see only what they want us to get to see. Now, the above posters mentioned that Egosoft has a good reputation on delivering the game, but we also know that they have a reputation on releasing very buggy games. The bugs followed them pretty much since the days of X1. They did always end up polishing and fixing majority of the bugs, even though in some cases it took years (hello XR), but eventually they did do make every game playable and enjoyable. I am not an advocate for releasing buggy and unfinished game, but we are all ready for the next X game installment. From what I understand, they are working hard to test it right now and get it as polished as possible, before the release on 10/30. I hope it almost goes smoother than previous releases, but again, since its a closed development, unlike Star Citizen, we won't get to see the game play in process of breaking and freezing, that won't help them at all. Also, if you go their YouTube channel, there are some early WIP videos, where they demonstrate game mechanics. I think one of the videos showed them building stations etc.

I don't need to see every little detail. I'd be fine with a narrated segment of gameplay that's actually gameplay, like the recent Just Cause 4 Gamescom trailer. While yes, their history speaks for itself in the positive, you also have to consider how psyched people were for Rebirth, only to have it launch with a resounding "meh." As I said before, I don't expect a perfect game. I know there will be bugs. In fact, if there's a particularly amusing bug, I'd like to see it (such as Teladi eyes spinning in their sockets in Rebirth). Yeah, I've already watched most of those videos, most beaing a year old, and all except one are people talking over a prerecorded looping segment of gameplay. The first one actually had a person at the controls, responding to the speaker.

And the game releases on 11/30.
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Llothlian
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Llothlian » Mon, 15. Oct 18, 21:09

Vandragorax wrote:
Tue, 2. Oct 18, 15:53
Falcrack wrote:
Tue, 2. Oct 18, 14:45
I feel that now that the preorder button is up, we deserve (yes, deserve) a much more detailed look at what we are getting into before we commit to buying.

I actually blame pre-orders, season passes, and other DLC 'strategies' for many gamers' continued sense of entitlement and impatience.
Don't; blame how hard we got burnt with X Rebirth. I'd played the games for years upon years, spent £600 upgrading my PC for Rebirth, pre-ordered the game, then it turns out to be ****** shit. I've got maybe 20 hours on it to this day. I am not buying anything without seeing it because of that.

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Mon, 15. Oct 18, 22:43

I spent £1500 on a new PC 5 years ago, took the week of work. Only to shelve the game and do other things for that week. After much work on the part of Egosoft I have nearly 1500 hours on Rebirth. I don't feel like I got burnt, burned or anything like it. For the price of a night out your vehemence just seems totally unjustified.
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Nikola515 » Mon, 15. Oct 18, 22:56

I have over 2000h on XR but that don't have anything do to do with X4. XR was broken from the start and I wish I didn't get the game until it was fixed (it ruined whole experience from the start). XR is pretty good game on its own but it is still horrible X game (just my opinion). Reason why OP has a good point is because Ego deliberately didn't show any live gameplay of XR is because game was so broken that nobody would have bough the game on first place (I wouldn't). This might be same reason with X4 as well ( personally I don't think this is the case but I was wrong before). Also this will lead to more speculations within community or some journalists.... Anyway ill be waiting to see some videos of live gameplay to see if game actually works before getting it (no more preorders for me ;)
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XD733
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by XD733 » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 06:05

Llothlian wrote:
Mon, 15. Oct 18, 21:09
Vandragorax wrote:
Tue, 2. Oct 18, 15:53
Falcrack wrote:
Tue, 2. Oct 18, 14:45
I feel that now that the preorder button is up, we deserve (yes, deserve) a much more detailed look at what we are getting into before we commit to buying.

I actually blame pre-orders, season passes, and other DLC 'strategies' for many gamers' continued sense of entitlement and impatience.
Don't; blame how hard we got burnt with X Rebirth. I'd played the games for years upon years, spent £600 upgrading my PC for Rebirth, pre-ordered the game, then it turns out to be ****** shit. I've got maybe 20 hours on it to this day. I am not buying anything without seeing it because of that.
I have to agree. I don't like the idea that we "deserve" anything, but I definitely agree that it is unwise to order anything from Egosoft until after release based on what happened with X:Rebirth. They hyped it and hyped it and it was a total abject failure.

I have been trying to play it again for the last couple weeks and, even patched, it has done nothing but ruin my relatively high hopes for X4. Seriously, it's impossible to play that game without wondering how X through X3:AP were so good.

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Alci » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 10:53

XD733 wrote:
Wed, 17. Oct 18, 06:05
Seriously, it's impossible to play that game without wondering how X through X3:AP were so good.
simple answer, bad memory. X:BtF was pretty bad and very disappointing too. Besides graphic it was far beyond the standards already existing in genre. X2 was the one that brought something new worth playing so the "bad spacesim" part could be ignored.

And Rebirth is not that bad. Even on release it wasn't disaster as some are "remembering". It worked. No crashes, no FPS problems. Bugs were no worse then Skyrim/Fallout at release. It was playable. And still better then X1. I remember Daikatana launch disaster (it's still uncompleteable even today btw.), RAGE launch disasters, NMS launch disaster, Crysis 2 launch disaster.

Llothlian
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Llothlian » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 18:22

Rebirth had terrible crashes, bugs and FPS problems. Are you sure it's everybody else misremembering, not just you?

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 18:31

Why do people want to argue (all over and over again) about X Rebirth in X4 threads? It totally mystifies me! :lol:

Let's just accept that individuals may have their own compelling reasons for wishing to see in advance real and current X4 gameplay footage (or not) and so move on with the topic please.
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SimB
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by SimB » Thu, 18. Oct 18, 09:27

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV6VBJiLMJ4 :o :)

(already posted in another thread)

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Falcrack » Thu, 18. Oct 18, 16:23

SimB wrote:
Thu, 18. Oct 18, 09:27
Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV6VBJiLMJ4 :o :)

(already posted in another thread)
Yeah, I recall seeing that when it came out, but it did not make much of an impression on my then, because mostly it was just Bernd flying around a station, shooting it a bit, and showing off how you can see the pilot from an external view of the ship. Not really core gameplay features like trading, building, mining, accepting and performing missions, etc.

The only thing I gleaned from that video for me was that the hated (for me at least) info points on station and scanning minigame seemed to still be present, something which I hope to mod out on day 1.

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