X3TC - Jumpstarting the Terran Economy

ConorC · Post by **ConorC** » Tue, 4. Sep 18, 19:43

Hey all, Long time player since X:BTF back after an 8 year gap playing Terran Conflict again. I'm probably a week ingame time into my new game. I'm about halfway through a few of the plots, got the terran plot done and I started to think that it's a shame all those terran fabs get removed and wouldn't it be wonderfull to kit out an Osaka and/or a full carrier full of Cutliss's and I started to think about how I could restart it. Then I read Timsup2nothin's wonderful CLS2 tutorial and I wondered could that be used to restart the broken Terran Economy. His tutorial is here: https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=334255

It's going to be challenging because all the food resource fabs are gone and I can only get protein paste, carbo cakes etc. from the logistics docks.

So what's left? there's a Wraith missile forge and an SSC forge in Mars, and EMPC forge in Saturn (I think) and one or two other fabs hanging around, but not much. I'm hoping that if I can supply this with everything they need by shipping resources to them using freighters running CLS2, grabbing the weapons that the food fabs will respawn and the other weapons fabs will also respawn.

I started with getting water from Uranus 2, and of course supplying the purification plant with ice, then started feeding the food fabs with what i could find in the docs, shipping energy to these fabs to get as much of the low to mid end stuff working as possible, then shipping all those resources to the weapon fabs that are still there. That's where I am now, mostly using Mercuries and Springblossoms.

I've set all these ships home based to factory that is not producing anything so I can keep an eye on the money and so far there is money coming in, although a lot of the ships are on standby.

My next thing is grab all the weapons from the weapon fabs. I'll set up a CLS2 freighter to do that tonight and dump them in a TL. I'm also gonna dump a bunch of advanced satellites in every terran sector so I can see if there's any change to the stations. I'm hoping this works.

I'll keep you guys posted on how I get on in a 10 year old game

Has anybody tried this before? Any tips? Should I be using a bunch of sector traders instead?

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Tue, 4. Sep 18, 21:53

I already said it in another thread, but I'll repeat it here...the key is going to be catching the fabs when they respawn, because they will. But they will also be removed again pretty quickly if you don't notice them.

Welcome back, and good luck!

jacex3tc · Post by **jacex3tc** » Tue, 4. Sep 18, 23:54

apparently once you do the aldrin campaign you can build the stuff needed to make the solar system unborked. dock ships at the fabs that get made in aldrin or the game will delete them and I don't think you can get those back.

I haven't yet done the aldrin missions but I was able to get rapiers on a lot of Terran stuff once I noticed it disappearing. funny thing was that I noticed it right before it was starting to happen. it started happening while I was exploring past Pluto and when I was finished I noticed it was all gone. so I just reloaded and put the ships. I was also about 2 months in on the game clock before I even went to Terran space and I read that sectors are disabled until you first visit them so that meant the Terran stuff was mostly all there by the time I could just buy ships for each.

no SSC fab though. and the power plant in Mars with my rapier was lost to a couple dinky pirates.

ConorC · Post by **ConorC** » Wed, 5. Sep 18, 13:14

Thanks for the replys guys.

JaceX3TC, I didnt know there was an aldrin campaign. Does it open up the purchase of terran fabs?

So last night I had a look and a new EMPC forge has appeared that wasn't there before so that's progress. I'm not really surprised at that though because I have a CLS2 freighter running around and grabbing all EMPCs and dumping them into a TL for later fun.

There's something I don't understand though. There are no fabs creating Carbo Cake or Protein Paste, and yet all the logistics docks are fully stocked, even though I'm grabbing as much of the stuff as I can for the food fabs. Do these commodities spawn in the logistics docks?

ConorC · Post by **ConorC** » Wed, 5. Sep 18, 16:13

So I've just done a bit of research and it appears that Carbo Cakes and Protein paste do indeed spawn at the logistics docks. Well that makes things easier because the terran economy is not quite as frakked as I thought it was. There's a couple of high end weapons fabs missing is all for example, the Matter/AntiMatter launcher fab in jupiter 2 is missing and there's no ore mines in pluto. A few other fabs are missing too, I just can't remember of the top of my head which ones, as I'm at work right now.

Honved · Post by **Honved** » Thu, 6. Sep 18, 16:46

If you start the Terran plot sequence from any Commonwealth start, you can select weapons that won't likely blow the Xenon "N" fighters out of the sky on the first hit (the Terran EMPCs are notorious for that). Some are likely to bail. I've parked a handful or so of bailed N fighters in several campaigns, at as many Terran factories as possible, after the mission to intercept a drone, followed by the patrols back to Saturn.

Setting up at least one fast freighter as a Sector Trader (promoted ASAP to a Local Trader) to ferry necessities between the more critical Terran stations is a priority, and I've even sent Hauler versions of bailed light fighters to supplement that as MORTs, rather than sell them. Catching it ASAP to prevent further removals before it becomes an epidemic beats waiting and watching for replacements to show up at random.

As pointed out, some of the required resources are spawned by the Logistics Docks. Between those and E-cells, you can pretty much keep most things functional with a little effort, but if one thing breaks the chain, you start losing station after station.

Mazryonh · Post by **Mazryonh** » Sun, 9. Sep 18, 00:27

Is there an in-universe reason why the Terran economy is so borked and stays borked in the vanilla game? I haven't played X3TC yet but I don't mind being spoiled.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sun, 9. Sep 18, 01:31

Mazryonh wrote:Is there an in-universe reason why the Terran economy is so borked and stays borked in the vanilla game? I haven't played X3TC yet but I don't mind being spoiled.

By "in-universe" do you mean like a lore story of the Terrans being just incompetent or something like that? I haven't run into one. We could make some up though.

I'll go first.

Sudden reconnection with the X Universe and potentially the terrible terraformer menace would impact the entire space based segment of their economy, with a severe labor crisis crippling space based production when workers seek the safe shelter of Earth.

Mazryonh · Post by **Mazryonh** » Sun, 9. Sep 18, 03:11

Timsup2nothin wrote: By "in-universe" do you mean like a lore story of the Terrans being just incompetent or something like that? I haven't run into one. We could make some up though.

Then this gameplay mechanic makes no sense from either an in-universe or game design standpoint. There should have been an official patch making the Terran economy more functional.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sun, 9. Sep 18, 04:54

Mazryonh wrote:
Then this gameplay mechanic makes no sense from either an in-universe or game design standpoint. There should have been an official patch making the Terran economy more functional.

Perhaps, but the problem is that it isn't *a* gameplay mechanic. It's a product of the interaction of multiple gameplay mechanics. That makes it a lot harder to 'just patch,' since many of those gameplay mechanics are also working across the rest of the universe and others are genuinely the critical fabric of Terran space.

In more detail, the collapse of the Terran economy results from the normal functioning of NPC trader AI scripts (which if messed with screws up the rest of the universe) in an environment of isolation (one and only one gate allows access to the entire Terran region, and that's the lore of it) made up of sectors that feature staggering distances (which is what gives Terran space the uniquely grand impact that more or less make it worth including in the game at all). So there isn't really any 'quick fix' to patch in.

We make do with the fact that the Terran economy provides a unique challenge. Personally, sometimes I take up that challenge because it makes me think in new approaches, or calls for application of an approach that isn't ideal in the rest of the universe and makes it useful. Other times I am perfectly happy to write off the economically broken Terran region as enemy territory that I just don't care about anyway.

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Mon, 10. Sep 18, 00:48

Timsup2nothin wrote:
Mazryonh wrote:
Then this gameplay mechanic makes no sense from either an in-universe or game design standpoint. There should have been an official patch making the Terran economy more functional.
Perhaps, but the problem is that it isn't *a* gameplay mechanic. It's a product of the interaction of multiple gameplay mechanics. That makes it a lot harder to 'just patch,' since many of those gameplay mechanics are also working across the rest of the universe and others are genuinely the critical fabric of Terran space.

In more detail, the collapse of the Terran economy results from the normal functioning of NPC trader AI scripts (which if messed with screws up the rest of the universe) in an environment of isolation (one and only one gate allows access to the entire Terran region, and that's the lore of it) made up of sectors that feature staggering distances (which is what gives Terran space the uniquely grand impact that more or less make it worth including in the game at all). So there isn't really any 'quick fix' to patch in.

We make do with the fact that the Terran economy provides a unique challenge. Personally, sometimes I take up that challenge because it makes me think in new approaches, or calls for application of an approach that isn't ideal in the rest of the universe and makes it useful. Other times I am perfectly happy to write off the economically broken Terran region as enemy territory that I just don't care about anyway.

Technically there are 2. Although going through Aldrin implies going through lots of xenon sectors including xenon core.

Anyway, some see broken economy and some see player haven. To each his own. Terran economy just screams "made for player". Also it will stabilize to a degree on it's own. Terrans aren't spread out across 200 sectors nor do they compete with others for wares other then shields. It's all contained and tucked away. If you build at all... and you build your stuff in terran space simply because terrans will never harrass you over crap and they will not allow any hostiles to pass through unlike everybody else, you don't even have to try... it will all fall into place.

I made a topic earlier about fixing CLS traders jumping to include jump beacons in their pathfinding, the fix is literally 2 lines of code in 2 files that adds a total of 4 words.... rest is there, beacons are there all coded and everything they are just skipped for what ever reason. Which got me into a position where I need to manually sell terran weapons because every terran station is sitting in perpetual full mode. I don't make any more terran stuff then CW stuff... yet terrans are living large and CW... it's certainly better then if I was not involved but it's not like you walk into EQ dock and every single weapon is there along with shields. No... it's nothing like that.

RainerPrem · Post by **RainerPrem** » Mon, 10. Sep 18, 05:35

hisazul wrote:
Technically there are 2. Although going through Aldrin implies going through lots of xenon sectors including xenon core.

We're talking about TC. Xenon Alley was introduced in AP.

cu
Rainer

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Mon, 10. Sep 18, 15:44

RainerPrem wrote:
hisazul wrote:
Technically there are 2. Although going through Aldrin implies going through lots of xenon sectors including xenon core.

We're talking about TC. Xenon Alley was introduced in AP.

cu
Rainer

Oh... well... I think I need to find my glasses now.

ConorC · Post by **ConorC** » Wed, 12. Sep 18, 11:05

A quick update, Terran economy in my game is ticking along, slowly, and my Terran supply network is making a profit, slowly.

I haven't had a lot of time to play recently so I haven't really been keeping an eye on it. The only terran missile fabs currently in game are two Poltergeist fabs, in Mars, and Titan. I'm hoping that a Spectre missile fab will spawn at some point. I sold the Claymore I got in the terran plot because the Phantom Missile fabs are long gone. I'm hoping one respawns at some point.

Meanwhile, I'm doing the hub. 75,000 crystals to go until the next outrageous demand from Mahi Ma

Mazryonh · Post by **Mazryonh** » Sat, 15. Sep 18, 05:59

Okay, so maybe the Terran sectors' economy is a golden opportunity just waiting for the player to shore it up. But why would the game go about deleting the factories in those sectors seemingly at random? That makes no sense. Are they coming under constant hostile attack or something?

Lorewise, I would think that there would at least be a segment of the Terran population who would be very excited about the discovery of the X-Universe and would want to make their money by trading with the Commonwealth. At the very least, there should be a booming tourism industry for Terrans looking to visit the X-Universe's wonders, realistically speaking. Besides, why stick with MREs all the time when you could try a Meatsteak Cahoona instead?

Fulgrymm · Post by **Fulgrymm** » Sat, 15. Sep 18, 07:28

What's happening is that the stations are never getting the resources they need to operate, so they sit idle for too long until the game decides they aren't serving a role in the universe and gets rid of them. Same thing will happen to stations that are always full of product.

ConorC · Post by **ConorC** » Mon, 17. Sep 18, 11:18

Things are working. I have been moving final products, and for example, I have been buying up the point singularity weapons thingies (technical term) to kt out my Osaka (love this ship) and what ever other terran ships I buy later, and a new Point singularity weapons forge has popped up in one of the unknown sectors south of Oort Cloud. It's a pain to get to, but it's there. and it's getting resources from somewhere.

Still no spectre missile fab but I've found they spawn in Unknown Aldrin Stations. That's great but a little disappointing as I was hoping to encourage a factory to spawn in terran space.

As I learn more about CLS I have been fine tuning my network of ships supplying the terran factories. I kind of think I have learned so much that I need to shut the whole system down and start it again,m setting it up using the knowledge I have gained. My terran network is probably making a profit of about 200,000 credits per in game hour, I feel that I can do better.

Meanwhile I've been doing the Final Fury, Goner mission, and the HUB, although I'm using Lucik's Hard Hub script , which makes the Hub a little easier than vanilla.

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Thu, 20. Sep 18, 06:26

I'm trying to remember but when it comes to TC do terran sectors get the same random jump beacon placements as in AP? As in at the start of the game at random jump beacons are scattered around? For me in AP there are only about 2ish sectors that are more then 1 system away from something you can jump to.
If that is the case and you don't care about modified flag I would advise fixing bonus packs CLS scripts to include jump beacons, it speeds things up by.... A LOT. The fix is like... 4 words in total in 2 files, all the logic is already there just for what ever reason pathfinding doesn't include beacons even if it does all the calculations for them.

RainerPrem · Post by **RainerPrem** » Thu, 20. Sep 18, 07:48

hisazul wrote:I'm trying to remember but when it comes to TC do terran sectors get the same random jump beacon placements as in AP? As in at the start of the game at random jump beacons are scattered around? For me in AP there are only about 2ish sectors that are more then 1 system away from something you can jump to.
If that is the case and you don't care about modified flag I would advise fixing bonus packs CLS scripts to include jump beacons, it speeds things up by.... A LOT. The fix is like... 4 words in total in 2 files, all the logic is already there just for what ever reason pathfinding doesn't include beacons even if it does all the calculations for them.

Hi,

as far as I remember there were no jump beacons in TC apart from those needed for the plot. The one in Aldrin, the ones in Uranus? and Kuiper?, which were immediately destroyed.

The random placement in AP is sometimes bad. At the moment I have three beacons in central Paranid area, but none in Moon or Saturn. There is not even one in the adjacent sectors of Saturn.

cu
Rainer

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Thu, 20. Sep 18, 07:51

hisazul wrote:I'm trying to remember but when it comes to TC do terran sectors get the same random jump beacon placements as in AP? As in at the start of the game at random jump beacons are scattered around? For me in AP there are only about 2ish sectors that are more then 1 system away from something you can jump to.
If that is the case and you don't care about modified flag I would advise fixing bonus packs CLS scripts to include jump beacons, it speeds things up by.... A LOT. The fix is like... 4 words in total in 2 files, all the logic is already there just for what ever reason pathfinding doesn't include beacons even if it does all the calculations for them.

Anyone willing to specify which four words and which two files?