A Non-Racist Discussion About Idris Elba And James Bond

Anything not relating to the X-Universe games (general tech talk, other games...) belongs here. Please read the rules before posting.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

User avatar
Alee Enn
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat, 28. Mar 09, 17:03
x4

A Non-Racist Discussion About Idris Elba And James Bond

Post by Alee Enn » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 20:07

So apparently, according to some sources, Idris Elba is in the front running by the producers to play James Bond in the next movie.
I have no issue with his skin colour or his acting skills, but there was a popular theory doing the rounds (and it's a theory I came up with as a kid, but I accept other people came up with it as well) that James Bond is just a code name and that explains why his look keeps changing. This theory could explain why Idris Elba is James Bond.

There is a slight problem, however ... the producers shot down this idea.

They maintain that James Bond is his real name and he's always been the same person, despite different people playing him. Which is all well and good, except when you have a major change like The Doctor being played by a woman ... oh wait, wrong franchise, and that franchise has its explanation. The James Bond franchise doesn't have that explanation. How are they going to explain Elba's Bond meeting people Craig's Bond met and not raising an eyebrow at such a major change.

Yes I am talking about Idris' skin colour, but no, I'm not racist. I'll happily accept a black Bond or a female Bond or a Bond that's a terminating machine with a metal skeleton and an Austrian accent who promises he'll be back (in the next film), if there's a logical explanation for the changes. The producers aren't embracing that.

I am curious what you think.

User avatar
Antilogic
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed, 6. Apr 05, 20:33
x3tc

Post by Antilogic » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 20:17

So I'm not a James Bond fan, but interesting discussion.

My thoughts as an outsider is.... it doesn't matter. You hire the best person for the job. For Doctor Who, hiring a women - no difference, so long as that person provides for a good show.

In Harry Potter, there was a fuss because Hermione Granger was played by a white girl in the films, but a black one in the play. Again, it doesn't make any difference. When watching a show, film, or whatever there is a certain degree of separation between reality and the show, which I take into account when watching. And if the producers of the show can provide a better experience by ignoring the race or gender of the previous incarnation of the show, then by all means.

Hell, theater has had men and women playing each others gender and cross dressing for centuries.

User avatar
Tamina
Moderator (Deutsch)
Moderator (Deutsch)
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun, 26. Jan 14, 10:56

Post by Tamina » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 20:48

Too bad they shot down the code name theory, now it bothers me a little that the actors changed through the whole franchise.
And thats it.
I couldn't care less.


*Edit: People outraged because of Daniel Craig playing James Bond, so I am in my shelter if anyone needs me.

Code: Select all

  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 
This is Tamina. Copy Tamina to your signature to help her achieve world domination.

pjknibbs
Posts: 28389
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 21:31
x3tc

Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 20:58

I don't see that all the white middle-aged Bonds are so similar that you wouldn't expect people they've met to be a bit surprised to see them, so I'm with Antilogic; it just doesn't matter. Idris Elba is a fine actor who effortlessly comes across as a badass, and I think he'll make a great Bond.

User avatar
Morkonan
Posts: 1878
Joined: Sun, 25. Sep 11, 04:33
x3tc

Re: A Non-Racist Discussion About Idris Elba And James Bond

Post by Morkonan » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 21:08

Alien Tech Inc. wrote:...I am curious what you think.
If they're looking at him for the role because he is the best choice as an actor for a lead action role, I am in favor of it. If they are looking at him for the role because he's black and they want to capitalize on that, I am against it.

As far as the name "James Bond" goes, it's always been his actual name. He supposed to be the same person through all the films, never mind the fact that he'd have trouble skydiving with a walker by now.

In speaking for "canon" I have no issue at all if they wanted to keep him "white." (Caucasian) That makes sense, considering his past adventures. The story is "the story" and, unfortunately, that would mean that some of the story either didn't happen or is too absurd given later revisions of "race."

I would, however, point out that there have been a number of black "Bond Girls." Nobody seemed to mind those very much. So, maybe it would work, with some purposeful ignoring of certain Bond storylines?

https://people.com/movies/idris-elba-is ... diversity/
...According to Fuqua, Broccoli said “it is time” a diverse actor takes on the role if Craig, 50, retires as James Bond in the next film. Fuqua told The Daily Star that Broccoli believes casting an ethnic minority actor in place of Craig “will happen eventually.”...
"It's time for diversity" - I generally don't like that. It's not that I don't like "diversity" it's that I get tired of producers shoehorning in "diversity" and then pointing it at it like they have just become righteous white knights on some sort of crusade.

Either his ability and qualities as an actor means he is the best choice for the role or it doesn't. (I don't know his body of work, so can't speak to that.)

radcapricorn
Posts: 502
Joined: Mon, 14. Jul 08, 13:07
x4

Post by radcapricorn » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 21:57

It doesn't matter so long as he's a good Bond, at least. And if he's not, well, then he's not. M changed not just appearance, but gender (and IMO, for the better). And Q... well, Q is Q, they're supposed to be weird. What's to fret about anyway? They'd probably do a reboot in like 5 years. Everybody loves reboots these days.

PS. Connery's still the best Bond ever :P

RegisterMe
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun, 14. Oct 07, 17:47
x3tc

Post by RegisterMe » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 23:27

radcapricorn wrote:It doesn't matter so long as he's a good Bond, at least. And if he's not, well, then he's not. M changed not just appearance, but gender (and IMO, for the better). And Q... well, Q is Q, they're supposed to be weird. What's to fret about anyway? They'd probably do a reboot in like 5 years. Everybody loves reboots these days.

PS. Connery's still the best Bond ever :P
Agreed, apart from the PS. :).

The biggest shift in Bond film approaches was with the first scene of the first Daniel Craig Bond. All that slightly smarmy, slightly superior, slightly tongue in cheek Bond of yore was.... challenged (in a good way imho), violently.

The colour of somebody's skin? pfft. Idris Elba wouldn't be a great Bond because he is black. He'd be a great Bond because he'd be a great Bond.
Gavrushka wrote:The problem with 'freedom of speech' is it makes wackos think they have something of value to say.

*WE WANT THE amtct BACK*
Rapier's search

berth
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat, 6. Nov 04, 17:22
xr

Post by berth » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 23:40

I'm sure his name came up a few years ago for this.

I loved him in The Wire. Luther was quite bad but he was good in it. Heimdal, meh, but not his fault probably.

On the one hand, he (Elba) can do suave and handy very well but, on the other, I think he is too old to start a Bond career. He is 45 now, Craig was 38 when he started. A quick google suggests that most actors play Bond for about ten years and surely nobody wants a return to the Roger Moore era!

So, yeah, a few years back, sure but now, no. Sorry, Idris.

Edit: I liked Dalton's Bond, although the Craig has also been pretty good.

User avatar
felter
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat, 9. Nov 02, 19:13
xr

Post by felter » Sat, 11. Aug 18, 00:32

I haven't read what else has been said here so i don't know if this has been said already.

James Bond should be played by a white man, he was written as a white man so a white man should play him. Now I don't say this as any kind of racism, it's just that James Bond is a white guy. Now some will say but a Black guy can act just as well as a white guy, which is true but a black guy should not be playing a white character which James Bond is. If it was turned around and say T'Challa (black panther) was going to be played by a white guy, the black community would be up in arms and quite rightly so, because T'Challa is a black guy, just like James Bond is a white guy so should only be played by a white guy.
I'm not saying he is a Russian asset, I'm saying he sat on his asset when he was supposed to be confronting Putin.
#AlertTheDaycareStaff #denturedonald

User avatar
Ketraar
Moderator (DevNet)
Moderator (DevNet)
Posts: 8758
Joined: Fri, 21. May 04, 17:15
x4

Post by Ketraar » Sat, 11. Aug 18, 01:03

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but a white guy playing a role of a non-white is nothing short of common though, including full on black-face, so...

MFG

Ketraar

berth
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat, 6. Nov 04, 17:22
xr

Post by berth » Sat, 11. Aug 18, 01:14

Given that this is hypothetical..

I don't think it matters, so long as they don't go all blaxploitation.

After all, the James Bond character is Scottish but how many actors have portrayed him as that? Only Connery had the accent, Brosnan is Irish (maybe close enough for the US) and the rest are English I believe.

pjknibbs
Posts: 28389
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 21:31
x3tc

Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 11. Aug 18, 03:25

berth wrote: On the one hand, he (Elba) can do suave and handy very well but, on the other, I think he is too old to start a Bond career. He is 45 now, Craig was 38 when he started.
Three previous Bonds (Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, and Pierce Brosnan) were over 40 when they first appeared as Bond. (The latter two also spent less than ten years in the role, as it happens). If you include the original "Casino Royale" from the 60s you can add David Niven to that list, who was 57 at the time! Moore, Brosnan and Connery were all older than Idris Elba is now when they *last* appeared as Bond.

I think Elba probably has 2 or 3 Bond movies in him before he definitely starts getting too old for the part, so let's give him a chance and see what he can do.

@berth: Timothy Dalton is Welsh, FYI. :)

RegisterMe
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun, 14. Oct 07, 17:47
x3tc

Post by RegisterMe » Sat, 11. Aug 18, 04:19

felter wrote:I haven't read what else has been said here so i don't know if this has been said already.

James Bond should be played by a white man, he was written as a white man so a white man should play him. Now I don't say this as any kind of racism, it's just that James Bond is a white guy. Now some will say but a Black guy can act just as well as a white guy, which is true but a black guy should not be playing a white character which James Bond is. If it was turned around and say T'Challa (black panther) was going to be played by a white guy, the black community would be up in arms and quite rightly so, because T'Challa is a black guy, just like James Bond is a white guy so should only be played by a white guy.
I disagree. James Bond is quintessentially British. The colour of his (or her) skin is not.

I would agree that Iam Flemming's original vision was... of its time. But I would also think that Ian Flemming's thoughts would have moved on some.
Gavrushka wrote:The problem with 'freedom of speech' is it makes wackos think they have something of value to say.

*WE WANT THE amtct BACK*
Rapier's search

User avatar
felter
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat, 9. Nov 02, 19:13
xr

Post by felter » Sat, 11. Aug 18, 05:16

RegisterMe wrote:
I disagree. James Bond is quintessentially British. The colour of his (or her) skin is not.

I would agree that Iam Flemming's original vision was... of its time. But I would also think that Ian Flemming's thoughts would have moved on some.
you can't have it both
Iam Flemming's original vision was
That is it, he was a British white man, you just can't change it because you want to be politically correct. If you go along with the logic you are using, then yes a white man can be black panther, as you do get white Africans and that is just wrong. They are pushing for the correct ethnicity to play the roles in Hollywood, you seem to think that does not include British white men, as there are also British black men, but it shouldn't work like that. Bond was was always white, never was he seen as being black and that is how it should stay.

I have nothing against a Black man playing a spy or super hero, but you have to create that persona, you just can't change a persona for correctness.
I'm not saying he is a Russian asset, I'm saying he sat on his asset when he was supposed to be confronting Putin.
#AlertTheDaycareStaff #denturedonald

User avatar
red assassin
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun, 15. Feb 04, 16:11
x3

Post by red assassin » Sat, 11. Aug 18, 07:54

felter wrote:
RegisterMe wrote:
I disagree. James Bond is quintessentially British. The colour of his (or her) skin is not.

I would agree that Iam Flemming's original vision was... of its time. But I would also think that Ian Flemming's thoughts would have moved on some.
you can't have it both
Iam Flemming's original vision was
That is it, he was a British white man, you just can't change it because you want to be politically correct. If you go along with the logic you are using, then yes a white man can be black panther, as you do get white Africans and that is just wrong. They are pushing for the correct ethnicity to play the roles in Hollywood, you seem to think that does not include British white men, as there are also British black men, but it shouldn't work like that. Bond was was always white, never was he seen as being black and that is how it should stay.

I have nothing against a Black man playing a spy or super hero, but you have to create that persona, you just can't change a persona for correctness.
The Bond books were written in the 50s. I don't see you complaining about all the other changes that have been made to update the character and the world in the last 50 years - Bond and the world he works in, you may have noticed, are more than a little different in the films than the books! - and yet you're suddenly very specifically insistent that he has to be white for the integrity of the character? Uh huh. MI6 isn't a bunch of white Oxbridge men any more, and neither should Bond be.
A still more glorious dawn awaits, not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns - the rising of the Milky Way

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic English”