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Hank001
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Post by Hank001 » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 14:13

As counterpoint from the diminishing center.

If you chose to follow the trail I'm setting before you here you'll find how dangerous...DANGEROUS a rational approach to the problems in the United States has became. If fact, as you will see if you follow this one situation, why it is now said a rational centralist approach in the administration of state campuses is quickly coming to an end. In the case of the campus involved the bad example of Missouri State University is ill used except as an example of why not to attempt a right of center approach.

In the case of Professor Bret Weinstein you might call him a martyr to rational dialectric discussion when faced by the forces on both the right and left armed with "weaponized rhetoric" that is now the "new speak" regurgitated by both sides in place of discourse.

The end of discussion and dielectrics on
campuses the case of Professor Weinstein:

https://youtu.be/2cMYfxOFBBM

Weinstein before congress:

https://youtu.be/uRIKJCKWla4

Weinstein interview "Is the left eating itself?":

https://youtu.be/9osjKN5VWfM

The result on campus two months later as seen from the left:

https://youtu.be/kCTZ_QQV6Fw

I admit that as a dialectric Weinstein came ill prepared to the front lines and was somewhat ignorant of the length and depth of the gulf between the right and left.

So if there can be no discourse between the right and left without the result of the attempt being outrage at the mere attempt, then you can well imagine why many academics see nothing but very big trouble on the horizon. And why so many of the better academics are seeking other employment (quite a few in other countries).

The teachers still delving in rhetoric, dialectics and debate have tracked the devolving states of discourse in the US from simple dialectrics to Hegelianism to rhetoric to sloganism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

So if you in other countries wonder why the left and right don't just sit down and talk it over, the reason they don't is THEY CANNOT.
They are no longer speaking the same language and can no longer put asside their divisions and emotions to carry on a civil discourse because the divisions and heated rhetoric has became their LANGUAGE.

Where Weinstein failed was believing in reason when the time that reason could be spoken and UNDERSTOOD has passed.

Simply put: The United States of America is tactitly two countries.
The Right
The Left
(With a diminishing and oft reviled few in the center)

And both resultant countries speaking a different language that precludes the understanding of the other.

So if the schism (:oops:) of US makes the result seem schizophrenic
that's simply because you're getting the point.

Now with that in mind Trump's anitics at the NATO summit followed too closely what I assumed would happen and he took credit for what little was accomplished despite his outright obstruction and distain. When...not if...when the majority of other members fail to pony up with the new spending because the leaders couldn't push thought the funding, expect a pullout of the US from NATO, which Trump left implicit.

Now we DONT get to watch Trump and Putin in Helsinki. Don't because Trump still wants the bulk of the meeting behind closed doors. :?
The answer to life, the universe and everything:
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RegisterMe
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Post by RegisterMe » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 14:37

The US tears itself apart, and takes a wrecking ball to the institutions that have maintained world peace and western ascendancy for the last 80 years.

The western world looks on in horror and incomprehension, Russia and China rub their hands in glee.
Gavrushka wrote:The problem with 'freedom of speech' is it makes wackos think they have something of value to say.

*WE WANT THE amtct BACK*
Rapier's search

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Ketraar
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Post by Ketraar » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 15:17

Also "The left" and "The right" have absolute no meaning and only contribute to the problem of US politics. Just to put it in perspective, our most "right-wing" party currently in parliament, would be mostly to the LEFT of the democratic party. But these concepts were only truly relevant shortly after their conception as a consequence to the French revolution, they mean nothing these days. Much like the word "conservative" is meaningless.

Societies are "fluid" and in constant evolution, "conserving" is counter-intuitive at best. There is only one way (afawk at this point in history) and that is forward, meaning you can truly only be progressive. Trying to keep the status-quo only serves those already in comfortable positions and those afraid of change. I might have mentioned this here and there, but what people need is to have a system where they can identify with policy and parties need to be diverse so they can represent people more accurately, this 2 party system the US has, is a choice between colas, one just tastes slightly worse.

And here is the crux of it, people, especially on "the left" need to get off their lazy bastus and find ways for their platforms to get on ballots and elect people that will induce the needed change, ASAP! trying to convince Trump supporters that they are wrong and mostly just hurting themselves and dragging everyone else with them is a pointless endeavour. There are more than enough "on the left" to outvote Trumpism, but shit aint going to be done on its own.

MFG

Ketraar

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fiksal
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Post by fiksal » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 15:26

Howdy folks

So, how is it to be ruled by Kremlin in Germany? I heard that it's the new hot take on the current events today.


On the other side, Britain - I like what you do with your balloons. Very Monty Python-esque.

Skism wrote:breitbart
Oh no, breitbart's feelings are hurt. What a bunch of useless people they are.

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Hank001
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Post by Hank001 » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 15:46

Hey! Sorry I forgot all about Trump's stopover in England!
That should be "interesting".
I'm looking forward with trepidation at what damage
Trump no doubt is going to do to US relations with
the country and the queen. Most likely getting with
Pompeo on the best ways to insult the monarch
and "look tough" doing it.

Afterall with with "Big Baby" hanging over
London he's not going to pull many punches.

So in advance.
We in the US still possessing
a few functioning brain cells
not jellied into belligerence
apologise in advance for
any outrages about to
occur.
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fiksal
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Post by fiksal » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 15:49

Interesting, we could take bets on how he insults Britain.

My prediction:
- Britain is swarmed by dirty immigrants; Rapes everywhere
- Healthcare is failing; Dead everywhere; Brits go to US to see a doctor and smuggle shoes
- Fake news everywhere
- "London loves me"

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clakclak
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Post by clakclak » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 16:16

Tried ignoring Trump, doesn't work the guy is everywhere.
fiksal wrote:Howdy folks

So, how is it to be ruled by Kremlin in Germany? I heard that it's the new hot take on the current events today.[...]
привет fiskal,

no idea what you mean товарищ.
fiksal wrote:Oh no, breitbart's feelings are hurt. What a bunch of useless people they are.
I always prefered the Daily Stormer. At least they weren't that whiny.
Ketraar wrote:[...]
And here is the crux of it, people, especially on "the left" need to get off their lazy bastus and find ways for their platforms to get on ballots and elect people that will induce the needed change, ASAP![...]
Something like a programm other than "We don't like Trump" may be an idea.
Laugh and the world laughs with you,
Weep, and you weep alone;
The good old earth must borrow its mirth,
But has trouble enough of its own.

- Ella Wheeler Wilcox

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fiksal
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Post by fiksal » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 16:33

clakclak wrote:Tried ignoring Trump, doesn't work the guy is everywhere.
fiksal wrote:Howdy folks

So, how is it to be ruled by Kremlin in Germany? I heard that it's the new hot take on the current events today.[...]
привет fiskal,

no idea what you mean товарищ.
Hey man!

It's just this

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/politics ... index.html
President Donald Trump on Wednesday accused fellow NATO ally Germany of being beholden to Russia because it buys energy from Moscow, in pointed remarks ahead of a summit of the military alliance in Brussels.

"Germany is a captive of Russia," Trump said at a meeting with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, his first since arriving in the Belgian capital. "It's very inappropriate."
Trump went on to complain that the United States is expected to "defend them against Russia," despite Germany making "billions of dollars" in energy payments to Moscow.
"I think it's something that NATO has to look at," Trump said. "Germany is totally controlled by Russia."

and then
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/politics ... index.html
German Chancellor Angela Merkel appeared to hit back at US President Donald Trump's claim that "Germany is a captive of Russia" by drawing on her own upbringing in Soviet-controlled East Germany.

"I wanted to say that, because of current events, I have witnessed this myself, that a part of Germany was controlled by the Soviet Union. And I am very happy that we are today unified in freedom as the Federal Republic of Germany," she said in an arrival statement at the NATO Summit Wednesday, according to an English translation of her remarks.

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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 16:42

Skism wrote:People keep saying this... But, where are these "attacks" they're talking about? Saying it is true does not make it true. IMO, the purpose of claiming normal press coverage of the President and his family happens to be an "attack" is simply to draw sympathy without substance. Every President and their family comes under the scrutiny of the public and the press and every Administration has had to deal with that.
And here is a list of attacks:
...

Most of these so-called "attacks" are people yelling bad words.. Some are just people criticizing things they don't like. And, predictably, some are just kooks and wackos.

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 16:56

yeah Trump supporters are victims - poor things..
..victims of their own delusions, if they think Trump is in any way presidential..
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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clakclak
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Post by clakclak » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 17:05

@fiskal

Trump does have a point, we are to reliant on Russian resources, but there are not many great alternatives.

The point about our government being controlled by Russia is nonsense though. Everyone knows that Berlin is controlled by lobbyists.
Laugh and the world laughs with you,
Weep, and you weep alone;
The good old earth must borrow its mirth,
But has trouble enough of its own.

- Ella Wheeler Wilcox

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fiksal
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Post by fiksal » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 17:07

clakclak wrote:@fiskal

Trump does have a point, we are to reliant on Russian resources, but there are not many great alternatives.

The point about our government being controlled by Russia is nonsense though. Everyone knows that Berlin is controlled by lobbyists.
Agreed, Russia exports lots of gas, and Germany buys it.


His choice of words is ... eloquent, as usual.

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 18:06

no, fiksal..
- this is eloquent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POU1HjdXziM
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Hank001
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Post by Hank001 » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 19:44

BugMeister stated:
no, fiksal..
- this is eloquent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POU1HjdXziM
While a good video on the subject I'm afraid the people most in need of the message would be the last ones to open their ears to it.

Just scroll upwards and note the forum's new index of articles from "Anything but us is fake news put out by the liberal media elite and any right thinking American should eat anything we print up with a spoon or your leaning to the left youselves" In other words propaganda, but propaganda their readers want to read and reinforces their views. Which as you see amounts to horror and outrage that anyone is willing to stand up against their vision of America. So emboldended by what's became the far right's new feeling of empowerment most feel it's their DUTY to act out their most fringe views. Or just spend a fabulous amount of time making fantastically long lists to clog forums with. :shock:

As a counterpoint:

There was this recent incident in my own state:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/us/illin ... index.html

Here is the repotage:

https://youtu.be/VyXUjRl2dzc

The policeman that refused to invole himself just resigned:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/12/us/i ... index.html

So hate and misunderstanding are going both ways.

Gee who knew?

:roll:
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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 19:57

I just watched Trey Gowdy spouting utter garbage - as chairman of an official public committee, no less..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fgK8laWlak

- this garbage is nothing more than a pretty poor attempt at propagandising against the FBI
- deliberately designed to undermine public faith in the authority of the law offices of the State
- the fact that it's coming directly from the chairman of an official public committee is appalling..

- if you can't see that, then you're blind,,

- your government needs a serious shaking up - it's in the hands of a cabal of political pygmies.. :o :o :o
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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