Clarity's End

This forum is the ideal place for all discussion relating to X4. You will also find additional information from developers here.

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Tamina
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Post by Tamina » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 19:54

radcapricorn wrote:"we don't know". Because reasons, most likely
Because Lino is an artist at Egosoft and not a programmer. He was just trying to be helpful, not denying anything you said.

I am sure this request will be forwarded to or seen by someone responsible for this matter.

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radcapricorn
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Post by radcapricorn » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 19:58

I know, Tamina, I know, I'm not trying to belittle him or the devs. I'm just pointing out the stark contrast of what's being said in these forums (e.g. by CBJ, on the actual cost of options) against what there is actually in the game already.

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sd_jasper
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Post by sd_jasper » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 20:17

Lino stated that there are already a lot of options, nobody wants to open an options menu and see hundreds different things, nor have to dig down into nested menus of dozens of options and sub-options. This is likely to result in nobody finding the options they want.

Sure, this is just one little thing... but it could be the "straw that breaks the camel's back", so to speak. So options have to be prioritized by necessity, not how easy they might be to implement.

Personally, I don't mind the stardust and keep it on. That said, I also think it is pretty reasonable to ask for an option to turn it off, but it is just as reasonable for the devs to exclude such an option for reasons stated above (or others).

So, I also think it's great that there are mods and a pretty great mod community that can make these sort of tweaks so that players can (further) customizes their gameplay experience.

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Post by radcapricorn » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 21:14

sd_jasper, the "10k game options" surely was a hyperbole. There aren't that many options in, say, Rebirth, especially compared to X3. Maybe X4 will have more, we simply don't know at this point.

When talking about options, it's not the ease of implementation of the actual UI for it that is a concern (in modern C++ it's a couple lines of code anyway, not even worth mentioning), it's combinatorial explosion of complexity, on all levels, from implementation and maintenance down to execution on the CPU. I already provided one example of poorly thought out option in Rebirth. Another one would be the "Maintain speed in menus", which either wasn't thorouhly tested, or was deemed "good enough" regardless of whether or not it puts players in precarious positions from time to time. But hey, who's gonna play the game's plot from start to finish every time a new "yes/no" is added, right?

This stardust, however, has zero impact on gameplay. None. Zilch. It's not an implementation madness or a maintenance nightmare. It's just a visual aid, or irritant, depending on whom you ask. In any case, it's already there in the game, and all the logic controlling whether or not it's visible is also already there. Therefore, there's absolutely no downsides to just exposing it to the game's UI. Yes, it's "easy" to mod, yes, it's great that there's a huge modding community. What's not great is when said community feels obliged to point out how easy it is to mod something... that shouldn't have to be modded in the first place.

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sd_jasper
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Post by sd_jasper » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 22:28

radcapricorn wrote:This stardust, however, has zero impact on gameplay. None. Zilch. It's not an implementation madness or a maintenance nightmare. It's just a visual aid, or irritant, depending on whom you ask. In any case, it's already there in the game, and all the logic controlling whether or not it's visible is also already there. Therefore, there's absolutely no downsides to just exposing it to the game's UI. Yes, it's "easy" to mod, yes, it's great that there's a huge modding community. What's not great is when said community feels obliged to point out how easy it is to mod something... that shouldn't have to be modded in the first place.
What I'm saying is that what you consider to be something that shouldn't have to be modded, is your opinion.

Looking at the download/subscription numbers for mods on Nexus and Steam Workshop, there are TONS of far more popular mods that also have no gameplay or balance changes, but are far more popular than removing stardust.

Maybe someone else feels that being able to reduce/remove NPC dialog (many very popular mods) needs to be a settings switch. And someone else thinks that always showing the player credit balance on the hud needs to be an option, ...or a toggle for highway music, ...or displaying NPC faction next to their name in menus, etc., etc. All of these (and many many more) are more popular than removing space dust and don't effect gameplay and would probably be a simple matter of creating an option for... but you can't have every single thing be a toggle in the settings, or you are going to need a tutorial just to navigate the menu.

radcapricorn
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Post by radcapricorn » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 22:42

sd_jasper wrote: Maybe someone else feels that being able to reduce/remove NPC dialog (many very popular mods) needs to be a settings switch.
Can't, requires additional work, new menus, etc.
And someone else thinks that always showing the player credit balance on the hud needs to be an option,
Requires additional UI besides the option.
...or a toggle for highway music,
Good one, especially after devs themselves acknowledged the tech they use for it is uncomfortable to work with.
...or displaying NPC faction next to their name in menus,
Should not be an option or a mod, should've just been there since the moment remote comms were added. That's not even an "opinion", it's a statement of developers' oversight.
etc., etc. All of these (and many many more) are more popular than removing space dust and don't effect gameplay and would probably be a simple matter of creating an option for...
You've completely misunderstood my post, and I don't feel like repeating myself again. So, simply put, no.

Alan Phipps
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Post by Alan Phipps » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 23:02

Maybe I can cut this ongoing exchange a bit; the space dust is a fact in previous vanilla X games that are unlikely to get much dev attention for gameplay tweaks any time soon (as opposed to for any discovered substantial game-stoppers maybe).

The OP has raised a suggestion/request that it be made optional in X4. Maybe this thread could therefore be more usefully devoted to gathering an impression of the level of support or otherwise for that suggestion from other players?

My personal opinion: I don't mind it being present.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

radcapricorn
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Post by radcapricorn » Fri, 8. Jun 18, 23:59

Henceforth Alan Phipps is to be celebrated as a sole comprehendor of aforestated proclamations and inquiries. All hail cool heads and clear minds!

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sd_jasper
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Post by sd_jasper » Sat, 9. Jun 18, 02:07

Alan Phipps wrote:Maybe this thread could therefore be more usefully devoted to gathering an impression of the level of support or otherwise for that suggestion from other players?

My personal opinion: I don't mind it being present.
I don't mind it being present.

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Tamina
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Post by Tamina » Sat, 9. Jun 18, 02:12

Don't mind it either - never tried it without, though.

Wouldn't be a(n unbiased*) poll more straightforward?

*This needs to be said, sadly

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radcapricorn
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Post by radcapricorn » Sat, 9. Jun 18, 03:11

Feels like it would, Tamina, and I've just created it. Mr. Phipps, would you mind closing this thread?

Alan Phipps
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Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 9. Jun 18, 13:54

Done.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

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