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sd_jasper





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PostPosted: Thu, 17. May 18, 15:25    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

adeine wrote:
I know this has been discussed before, but can we please have some form of additional textual classification for the sector list? It doesn't have to follow X3's M1-M8 style, but something to the effect.

Having to decipher a jumble of icons on the map while searching for what it represents in the listing feels like a step back from what was a clear, at-a-glance way of assessing ships and threats in a sector.


Most of the ships (maybe all) have a designation or class, such as: "Mining", "Trader", "Freighter", "Fighter", etc.

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Vandragorax





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PostPosted: Thu, 17. May 18, 18:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

IMHO with the new map UI, there is less need for a "sector list" at all (list views are kinda horrible and feel very old in terms of UX/UI design).

It's immediately obvious what's going on and where by having the different icon styles for different 'jobs' of ship (Fighter, Trader, Miner) and then variations of the icon for different sizes of those ships (S, M, L, XL). It's not even that important most of the time which race or specific ship type it is, just the size and 'role' that is important for making tactical decisions.

This allows them much needed room for additions in the future too, unlike the old system. Case in point when M7 ships were added to the X universe, they were roughly in between M2 and M6 in terms of size and power but the classifications don't make any sense without shuffling around all the other ships which wasn't sensible (M7 should have been M3, but then M3 would have to become M4, and M4 would have to become M5, so on and so on). M6 also doesn't make any sense, and I believe was added after release, due to the fact it comes after M5 which is the smallest ship possible, the scout, but is in fact a lot bigger than an M3 and can even dock an M5.

This new system is much more flexible and a lot less confusing by keeping those classification styles out.


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GCU Grey Area



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PostPosted: Thu, 17. May 18, 18:25    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Vandragorax wrote:
IMHO with the new map UI, there is less need for a "sector list" at all (list views are kinda horrible and feel very old in terms of UX/UI design).

Disagree - find the sector list absolutely essential in X games. Play predominantly with joystick + keyboard. Lists are relatively easy to navigate using the keyboard, even with non-dominant hand. Conversely if ships (etc) on the map can only be selected with a mouse I'd have to frequently let go of the joystick (thereby losing control over my ship) every time I need to select something on the map (can't operate a mouse with my keyboard hand - have tried, I'm horrendously imprecise). That would soon become bloody annoying.

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Ezarkal





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PostPosted: Thu, 17. May 18, 18:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

GCU Grey Area wrote:

Disagree - find the sector list absolutely essential in X games. Play predominantly with joystick + keyboard. Lists are relatively easy to navigate using the keyboard, even with non-dominant hand. Conversely if ships (etc) on the map can only be selected with a mouse I'd have to frequently let go of the joystick (thereby losing control over my ship) every time I need to select something on the map (can't operate a mouse with my keyboard hand - have tried, I'm horrendously imprecise). That would soon become bloody annoying.


+1 to all of that. And if you think it's hard to left-hand a mouse, try to left-hand a trackball XD.

Also, if you end up with a sector cluttered with a lot of assets, as it often happen late-game, it becomes a pain to find a specific ship on the map. If you have a list and know the ship's name, then it's a piece of cake.

Just an idea: A "tabbed" list that could collapse sideway when not wanted would be a good in-between option. Open the tab if you want the list, close it if you want a larger map on your UI.


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A5PECT





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PostPosted: Thu, 17. May 18, 18:54    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Lists are fantastic if they have things like search functions, filters, and multiple sorting methods.


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linolafett
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PostPosted: Fri, 18. May 18, 17:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Dont worry, a "sector list" like thing still exists, it shows though everything on the map what is currently visible on your screen. This means it is already prefiltering what to show not based on a sector/zone but by the area covered by your camera.
Some filtering still applies: zooming out very far will "cull" away smaller objects, so the list doesnt get completely cluttered.

There is also a "property owned" list. This one shows you everything you own. This is independent to what you see on the map. This list is not prefiltered and just shows you everything.


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Fleabum





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PostPosted: Fri, 18. May 18, 22:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

linolafett wrote:
Dont worry, a "sector list" like thing still exists, it shows though everything on the map what is currently visible on your screen. This means it is already prefiltering what to show not based on a sector/zone but by the area covered by your camera.
Some filtering still applies: zooming out very far will "cull" away smaller objects, so the list doesnt get completely cluttered.

There is also a "property owned" list. This one shows you everything you own. This is independent to what you see on the map. This list is not prefiltered and just shows you everything.


Unless I miss read this, it sounds like you don't see a nice list that shows all ships in your scanner range.... only ones in your camera view on the sector map?

I really hope I have misunderstood this, else you would be forever moving and zooming around your sector map to get a view of all targets !?!

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Flea

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Vandragorax





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PostPosted: Tue, 22. May 18, 17:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Fleabum I think you really did misinterpret what Lino said. By "camera" I think it is meant, what's in your minimap view (developers talking about cameras doesn't always mean what the player is looking at through their cockpit).

I'm pretty sure that "it shows though everything on the map what is currently visible on your screen" means that your sector list shows everything that you can currently see on the minimap in your current zoom level, i.e. it won't show anything outside of the minimap edges so as to be confusing/cluttered.

The second point to the comment is that if you zoom out a LOT on the minimap, then some small details will not be shown, like S and M ships maybe?


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linolafett
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PostPosted: Tue, 22. May 18, 17:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Vandragorax All correct.


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Matterom





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modified
PostPosted: Tue, 22. May 18, 21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Tbh, I really want to see what the Cerberus looks like...
Next to the Elite(as my Fighter), that is my go to Cap ship from X3TC/AP
While i've warmed up to the new direction the nova went in.. i'm still going to be rather tilted if it looks as goofy as the other capital ships i've seen. (Honestly it's mostly been due to how they're doing the landing pads. )



Last edited by Matterom on Tue, 22. May 18, 21:12; edited 1 time in total
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Fleabum





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PostPosted: Tue, 22. May 18, 21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Vandragorax wrote:
Fy "camera" I think it is meant, what's in your minimap view (developers talking about cameras doesn't always mean what the player is looking at through their cockpit).


I never mentioned the cockpit view, I specifically stated view on sector map.

So my point still stands, if you scanner range is beyond the sector map zoom, then your list of ships gets clipped to those only on the current sector view based on zoom?

I guess it all depends on scanner ranges and sector view range. If your scanner view is larger than the sector view where smaller objects get clipped, then the list will not be a complete list.

So you either have a cut down list due to zoomed in on the sector view, or a cut down list with smaller ships missing when zoomed out, both of these do not have a complete list.

Regards
Flea

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