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Retiredman
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Post by Retiredman » Wed, 16. May 18, 15:58

Golden_Gonads wrote:As a matter of interest, did Trump ever actually sign his business over to a blind account as he was supposed to? He said he had, when in fact he hadn't, and... I've heard nothing since.

Many of Trump's decisions seem motivated solely by money. I mean he tweeted yesterday about how he's trying to help Chinese toelcom company ZTE, who were (according to wikipedia) found guilty last year of selling tech to North Korea and Iran - Indeed, their current state is largely due to US sanctions because of that...
This is one area where I raise a red flag. Seems Trump want to fast track the telcom back into business. Then his group gets a 300 million contract from the Chinese.
Ding
ding
ding

He either serve as President in interest of the people or he runs his business.
Not both.
If the latter, then anything Mueller can come up with is nothing on what
he does with that telcom.
In my book that is out the door faster than the door can hit you in the ass.
And maybe some hard time in a 8 by 10 cell.
You think a hero is some weird sandwitch and not a guy attacking a Xeno J with a kestrel.

Sir.. I said .. A guy attacking a J with a kestrel is the sandwitch.

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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Wed, 16. May 18, 23:14

Retiredman wrote:...And maybe some hard time in a 8 by 10 cell.
It's not impossible... Though, I would think that any investigation may stop short of that, considering the damage it would do to the office of "The President." Trump's already doing that sort of damage, sure. But, if he's sitting in jail, it's going to be a constant reminder to the rest of the world that... we suck. (As if they didn't already have that opinion.)

The good thing about that, if it happened? It'd show that our justice system has no fear and doesn't play favorites. Alternatively, though, even if it's a righteous charge, if it's pushed too hard by opposition parties, like the Democrats, even any true justice arising from it would seem tainted and would come under constant criticism of being "political."

So, if he did go to jail for something or at least was convicted, it may ultimately be a long-term lose/lose situation for the US. It's just not "good" no matter how anyone looks at what's going on now or prognosticating for a possible future.

IMO, in all honesty, we can trace just about all of this crap back to our kneejerk halphazard and fumbling responses to 9/11. But, that's a topic for another thread, considering how big it would be.

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 17. May 18, 21:55

sorry, Mork but I disagree entirely..
the complete opposite is more likely to be the case
the world would be greatly relieved to see justice prevail in this matter

- it is rapidly becoming a matter of serious international concern..
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... un-gaddafi

- tact has never been something Trump considers to any degree
- his diplomacy skills are equally deplorable..

[- unrelated..??]
- we in the UK are also grappling with the Cambridge Analytica's involvement in voter manipulation:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

- strange days, indeed..
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Thu, 17. May 18, 22:41

BugMeister wrote:sorry, Mork but I disagree entirely..
the complete opposite is more likely to be the case
the world would be greatly relieved to see justice prevail in this matter
Which part do you "completely disagree with?"
- it is rapidly becoming a matter of serious international concern..
...
- tact has never been something Trump considers to any degree
- his diplomacy skills are equally deplorable..
...
Agreed.

Trump doesn't seem to know what the whole "Libyan Model" was about... He doesn't understand. That's not surprising, but it's troubling that he insists on demonstrating his ignorance in public.

Khadaffi saw the growing need-for-action in the US after 9/11 and decided he wanted to be sure nobody would use it as an excuse to come stomp his face in, so he turned belly-up and renounced all WMDs and begged everyone to "come and see." OK, fine, since you're being so compliant, we will ignore you and, might, just might, even open up a little trade. Have a nice day, unless you do something so egregiously terrible we have to start paying attention to you, again.

Issue solved until the "Arab Spring" which just dumped too many opportunities for upheaval in Libya.

The same "promise" of a gradual return to somewhat normal relations could easily be extended to DPRK and KJU in return for his abandoning WMD. No problem - Everyone would be much happier just worrying about massed artillery pointing at the most populous city region on Earth...

Then, Trump steps into the room and feels the need to open his pie-hole and slap a big "I SAID SOMETHING" sticker on it...

Just... just... simply fookin' stoopid. He turned the conversation from "If you do something positive, we will too" to "YOU'LL END UP LIKE KHADAFFI "CAUSE I'M RUNNING FOR TEH OFFISE OF TEH PRESIDENCY! Make 'Murica Great Again! Crooked Hillary!"

<ahem> "Mr. President, you're already the President."

"WAT? I won?"

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 17. May 18, 22:58

the 25th could be invoked..
there's one heck of a lot of evidence for Drumpf's idiocy..
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Observe
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Post by Observe » Thu, 17. May 18, 23:24

BugMeister wrote:the 25th could be invoked..
there's one heck of a lot of evidence for Drumpf's idiocy..
Depends who you talk to. Lot's of people voted for Trump and many/most of them are quite happy with Trump's performance. Whether Trump is mentally unstable, is not so clear from a clinical view.

There are something like 80% of white evangelical Christians who remain in favor of Trump. How is it, that such people who are so prone to shouting superior morality, love a guy like Trump? Idiocy? Perhaps evangelical Christians should not be able to vote, because they are bound to elect unfit leaders? What's next. People who wear their hats backwards are obviously suspect. They shouldn't be able to vote either.

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 17. May 18, 23:51

- can we say that Farage, Drumpf et al are tarred with the same brush
- Cambridge Analytica's involvement with voter manipulation threw up the racist paradigm..
- and thus a campaign was formed..

- the Replicant's stand silent..
- the Russian's use of internet propaganda continues..
- it is (and was..) a threat to the EU as well as the US..

- oligarchy is the real enemy..
- democracy is under attack every day..
Last edited by BugMeister on Thu, 17. May 18, 23:54, edited 1 time in total.
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Observe
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Post by Observe » Thu, 17. May 18, 23:54

BugMeister wrote:democracy is under attack every day..
Doesn't something have to exist, before it can be attacked?

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 17. May 18, 23:55

- life is a work in progress.. :lol:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

Mightysword
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Post by Mightysword » Fri, 18. May 18, 02:43

Reading through this thread and see what people are posting ... I have been convinced many times the biggest reason why people can't sit down and talk and see the other side is because of: cynicism

Cynicism, cynicism, cynicism everywhere, it's almost like a cool thing to do that will somehow elate one's opinion to greater height and would magically inject the often absented critical thought. I think these days most of us (those who call ourselves adults) behave like kids, I remember kids love to use the words such as cynical, or senile on themselves because they think it makes them mature while the actual adults normally would not like to be associated with such words.

It would be great if we human can be more simple, honest to ourselves, and less prone to being hyperbolic and dramatic. :wink:

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Fri, 18. May 18, 11:41

nothing wrong with a bit of healthy cynicism now and then..
as long as you see it for what it is, eh? :lol:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

Bishop149
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Post by Bishop149 » Fri, 18. May 18, 12:09

The news this morning was full of a potential Chinese capitulation on trade, giving way to the tune of $200 billion.
Bloody hell, methinks, maybe I had Trump all wrong? Have his ridiculous bully tactics yielded a spectacular result!? Maybe there something in this after all!?

Nope. . . . just more lies* from the Trump team. China say they have offered no such thing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/18/china-d ... istry.html

Edit: *Ok some sources say the reports of the Chinese agreement came from within the Trump Administration, whilst others just say "rumours", so perhaps "lies" was over harsh.

@Mightysword
On this topic I think cynicism is entirely valid, in fact it is perhaps the only sensible approach. Throughout his entire life Mr Trump has barely done a single damn thing that wasn't plainly and openly motivated by his desire for personal aggrandisement and enrichment. There is no reason whatsoever to assume his ascending to the office of President would change this lifelong pattern of behaviour.
"Shoot for the Moon. If you miss, you'll end up co-orbiting the Sun alongside Earth, living out your days alone in the void within sight of the lush, welcoming home you left behind." - XKCD

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Fri, 18. May 18, 14:20

do you think Drumpf has visions of the Pyongyang Tower..
- ha, ha!! :lol:


PS:
- Zephyr Teachout..!!
- wow..!! :roll:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 18. May 18, 17:48

Mightysword wrote:...It would be great if we human can be more simple, honest to ourselves, and less prone to being hyperbolic and dramatic. :wink:
I agree.

However, in the far distant past, one of my ancestors watched his optimistic friend get eaten by a lion.

Cynicism was born. :)

So, now, when we see lions, we get a bit cynical about our survival chances. And, now, when we see ethically bankrupt people "in charge" we get a bit cynical about their intentions and reliability.

In considering most things with a long view towards ultimate results, I tend to be optimistic. In the short term, however, I'm usually a bit of a cynic. Most of the errors, corrective actions, delays and problems appear pretty quickly. And, if that doesn't just completely destroy whatever goal or result one is considering, as long as one keeps plugging away at it, it's likely achievable. Or, so I like to think...

Mightysword
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Post by Mightysword » Sat, 19. May 18, 02:27

BugMeister wrote:nothing wrong with a bit of healthy cynicism now and then..
Morkonan wrote: So, now, when we see lions, we get a bit cynical ...
:rofl: a bit :rofl:

Oi, this thread (and pretty much everywhere else) is literally overflowing with cynicism, and you know it. :headbang:

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