Did Egosoft miss what the fans wanted?

[Monkeyfister]

Everything I have seen to date tells me that Egosoft will not be selling me a new game title.
Egosoft, once set on the course of their choosing, has proven impervious to ANY changes from the decisions they've made-- see Rebirth.
They clearly decided that the Trilogy fan base is no longer needed.

[Riccardoman]

I'm an X trilogy fan an I don't feel your sentiment at all, and indeed from what I've seen so far I'm very excited
Every X chapter had its flaws and none of them where game braking to me
I have to admit that XR felt very limiting , but felt also fresh and different , something NEW, after nearly 7 years of X3
Comparing X4 to XR seems pretty drastic to me, everything I saw screamed X2^2 (+some X3 + some XR) and considering that was my favorite chapter in the whole series I'm more than happy to see the concept brought back to life

[Marco Nero]

Ye, we are not here to make the game, we are here just to explane our personal opinions. I think everybody can see that Egosoft is making an amazing game, with so nice features like the map (for example).
But i think the lovers of the trilogy feels to explane theyr opinion very loud, after they couldn't play Rebirth for several reasons, even it has become a good game, full of intresting new features, but still too far from the trilogy. They waited so long for a new X, and after Rebirth failed theyr expectations, choosing to make the game more "new gamer friendly" i think it's time to think more about theese people this time. If people likes more a different game, they can still continue playing X Rebirth,walking on stations, flying theyr highways, as i still play Albion Prelude. (answering to who say: "you dont like the game? Do not buy it")

[Buzz2005]

dont really ever post on here other then q's how to do something in a game that I cant find googling
but I would like to state my opinion now like all of you guys
long time player since x1 that hooked me for life
1000 of h on x3r,x3tc and x3ap with and without mods and latest litcube ofc

Just started on X:R, got some double digits hours on it and I do get what all the hate is coming from
but personaly dont hate it and will play it to death
Why I cant go back to x3 is graphics and thats what I was fed up in x3, it just killed the immersion after so many hours
XR got some mayor flaws like carriers not carrying stuff like fighters and no HQ or destroyable station.
I dont have to defend my stations at all
Smaltalk is like fail, just putting it text style would open a lot of new stuff to do with it and making it mandatory is another fail, discounts based on repeted costumer is so much better
Highways are only a problem bc they are one way so the travel is needlesly long
Boster draining shields is just why???
And ofc 1 ship only, albion is fine but come on, x3 was x3 bc you can fly all the ships ( every early or mid game start I spent in a TC just finding the best deals )
All MY mayor flaws for XR are it's got no late game content
I dont mind the AI and the interface since I have a diploma on x3 ( keyboard FTW ) and x3 AI is shit

I love stations and mass trafic, the cops and hacking and illegal scaning, finding lockboxes, drones are fine but just for albion ( dont get the point in carriers or stations with drones??? I mean they are x0 kms long and it lunches drones the size of 1meter for defense??? )
scaning station you have to mod out ( dont mind mods to since x3 is x3 bc of mods )
skills to are a moded must

graphics are AWSOME!!!

I will buy X4 as I did XR and all DLC as soon as it launches (didnt even start to play XR till now ) just bc I think they deserve it for x3 alone and the constant patching they do on all games
I am sad that XR is not X4 and they had to have a fail to realize some things are not meant to be changed
and I have to wait again for a new game!!!!
At least I have XR till then

Late game is the 1 thing they need to think about, like when a player after 1000h in the game will have something to do and can that doing be at least moded in or just changing the playing style ( that is taken care of with you can fly all ships )

Just keep on making them EGO and thanks for everything so far

[Sahvion]

Honestly I see nothing wrong with what Egosoft has been doing, I enjoyed Rebirth because it was something of a breath of fresh air (X3 felt like it was nothing more than a rehash of their previous games, it felt boring, the only thing that kept me going with it was one of the mods... and even that only kept me interested for a few months)

Now, I know this thread was created last year, but I wanna touch on what the OP has said.

- We don't need walking around.
-1. Why does it look so much like Rebirth?
-2. Graphics style seems off (see above question).
-3. The menu system looks like it's designed for consoles.
-4. What was wrong with the map system in X3?
-5. Poor character animations, again.
-6. Get rid of highways.
-7. Flight system looks the same as Rebirth, not as good as X3.

1. Who is this "we"? hmm? You do not speak for me, you do not speak for the community, you do not speak for ANYONE but yourself. So stop with the royal 'we'.

For me, personally, I liked that change in Rebirth as it was something new to the game. Although if it were up to me, I'd have expanded upon it to include more area's and also fleshed it out quite a bit more (there was a mod that actually did that for rebirth, it was never posted on these forums since the creator would've been slammed for liking rebirth)

2. I do not care about graphics all that much, what matters to me is the gameplay and - if included - the storyline. If I cared so much about graphics half the games on my steam list wouldn't have been bought.

3. And that is a problem how? Sometimes I've found that a menu made for the console was easier for me to manage than one made for the PC (and, more responsive) so for me, ease of use is far more important than whether or not it was something made for a PC or console.

4. It was clunky and frankly had its issues. Prefer the Rebirth map (however, I think that one requires a bit of an overhaul)

5. While something that can break immersion and thus I will agree that it is somewhat of an issue, I wouldn't say it was a priority. Of course, we've only seen two vids thus far so perhaps that'll change in the future.

6. This is debatable. If the sectors in X4 are the same size (or bigger) as in Rebirth, then they need to stay. On the other hand, if they are the same size as in X3, then I can agree that they are not needed.

7. Saw nothing wrong with the flight system.

[bearwolf]

Please read before voting, thanks!

I've been looking through the comments of the announcement trailer and it seems like a majority of people are really really unhappy and put off by the content shown in the trailer.

I've compiled a list of common/popular complaints:
- We don't need walking around. Agree, not in this type of game, it wastes so much time and is boring after a while.
- Why does it look so much like Rebirth? The look of Rebirth is better than x3.
- Graphics style seems off (see above question).
- The menu system looks like it's designed for consoles. The menu in X3 was far superior to XRebirth.
- What was wrong with the map system in X3? Resolution for in system viewing, but other than that nothing.
- Poor character animations, again. Didn't need them in X3
- Get rid of highways. Yes.
- Flight system looks the same as Rebirth, not as good as X3. Bring Back X3 flight.

They really emphasized, "Hey guys we brought back multiple ships!!!" and we've yet to hear/see much of a response to all the other complaints about Rebirth. What I will say is that it looks like a low budget indie game more than it does X3: TC/AP.

I'm not taking a position, I just want to make the thread as medium for discussion and maybe a resource for Egosoft.

I vote for X4 to be X3 with more ships and technologies; and better graphics, like you did with every other game until XRebirth.

[Observe]

- We don't need walking around.
- Poor character animations, again.
- Get rid of highways.

Walking around and character animation is new for Egosoft and I applaud their efforts. No doubt these will improve as they develop further. Who knows what Egosoft ultimately has in mind for the future, but I think it would be a bad idea for them to shy away from 3D character development.

I agree with getting rid of highways. No point complaining though, because they've already said that lame ugly highways are here to stay.

[Dreez]

Here's the important thing that needs to be established first, is X4 ment to be a "sequel" to X3,
meaning same universe ?.

Because if so, then they can't backtrack.

Consider the massive amount of ships we could pilot in X3TC/AB, the large amount of systems/sectors to explore,
and ontop of that - the most amazing industrial & economysystem
i have ever seen in a game before...

8 different races totally unique in shipdesigns and weapons..

AND the awesome quests that ended up giving us PHQ and other objects that otherwise weren't available to the players.

So if X4 is going to be a WORTHY sequel to X3, i say Egosoft has alot of work ahead of them...

[X2-Illuminatus]

From the Q&A thread:

This is not a remake of X3. As Bernd said in the presentation, one of the problems with the X3 code-base was the sheer number of features that had been added in over the years, hampering the ability to create anything new.

Universe Design

...

How does the Story of X4 connect to X Rebirth or X3?
In X4 you play a new story, which is not directly connected to XR or X3. Lore-wise, however, it plays in the same universe. And time-wise after the events in X Rebirth.

[Slashman]

I don't really get how people can be disappointed in X4 at this point. They are literally giving us the things were have been asking for since XR launched.

We have modular station building, we have the ability to fly ALL ships again. We have, from what was explained, actual competing factions which the player can get involved with. Proper carriers. Decent map. Cap ship bridges and cockpits.

In short...wth are we complaining about? This is from me, one of the people who wholeheartedly hated XR with a passion. I'm willing to give them a chance to show they have learned from that mess and make something awesome.

[CtMurphy]

Please read before voting, thanks!

I've been looking through the comments of the announcement trailer and it seems like a majority of people are really really unhappy and put off by the content shown in the trailer.

I've compiled a list of common/popular complaints:
- We don't need walking around.
- Why does it look so much like Rebirth?
- Graphics style seems off (see above question).
- The menu system looks like it's designed for consoles.
- What was wrong with the map system in X3?
- Poor character animations, again.
- Get rid of highways.
- Flight system looks the same as Rebirth, not as good as X3.

They really emphasized, "Hey guys we brought back multiple ships!!!" and we've yet to hear/see much of a response to all the other complaints about Rebirth. What I will say is that it looks like a low budget indie game more than it does X3: TC/AP.

I'm not taking a position, I just want to make the thread as medium for discussion and maybe a resource for Egosoft.

1) Hmm, I don't think there's much point to it. Unless there is ground combat, it seems kinda redundant to me. Tht being said, I would have enjoyed it if the novelty didn't run so thin so fast. Something more to do on our space legs would be nice.

2) I'm not entirely fussed about what it looks like nearly as much as what the content will look like. I think X3 looked brilliant, my main complaint lay with AI navigational skills...

3) See above response...

4 & 5) I don't see what the problem with the old menu is about. I liked it and was comfortable with it. It's a grand scale game with lots of variable actions and other stuff to do. It's impossible tohave one too three buttons doing everything. I hate ta say it, but if patience ain't your field then you should prolly move on to a different game.

6) I personally... really don't care about character animations... There are somany other, more important things.

7) I can agree to that, the gate system had it's issues but I didn't much like the highway system.

I'll waitand see on this one.

[adeine]

I don't really get how people can be disappointed in X4 at this point. They are literally giving us the things were have been asking for since XR launched.

We have modular station building, we have the ability to fly ALL ships again. We have, from what was explained, actual competing factions which the player can get involved with. Proper carriers. Decent map. Cap ship bridges and cockpits.

In short...wth are we complaining about? This is from me, one of the people who wholeheartedly hated XR with a passion. I'm willing to give them a chance to show they have learned from that mess and make something awesome.

The promised ability to fly all ships has already turned out to be a bit of a fib - they've since stated you won't be able to fly Xenon ships and there are no plans to change that. I imagine it's a similar answer for Kha'ak, if they even make it into the game.

Which speaking of the latter, it has also been confirmed that the game will ship without the Boron, and any meaningful content for the Split. Since Terrans aren't expected to feature in the game either, this means a good four factions will be missing from the game, with all that entails, perhaps indefinitely.

'Crafting' and station interiors are going to feature in the game, both of which elicit mixed opinions in oldschool X players at best and could be seen as concerning with regards to the direction X4 is taking. Highways are also once again confirmed to be a feature, albeit supposedly less on the nose than those in XR.

Long story short, there are a lot of warning signs to have those burned by XR feel let down or disappointed with the prospect of X4 at this point. As for myself, I personally never played XR so perhaps I'm approaching things from a slightly more optimistic point of view. It does seem like Egosoft are genuinely listening and reaching out to the community, and the worrying aspects aside I do feel X4 shows promise. So I'm likewise happy to wait and see how things pan out, hopefully for the better.

I can certainly understand why others might feel differently though.

[fireanddream]

Cautiously optimistic.

Can't believe people are bashing X3 now. Yeah a lot of controls in X3 are tedious simply because it's been using the X:BtF engine with only one of your 197 CPU cores. But those flaws are ultimately tolerated by many because they represent bad approaches to something in-depth and rewarding.

For example, jumpdrives and jump gates, as another player mentioned, totally rendered core and border sectors the same and there's no reason why the majority of NPC ships don't even use it.

However, remove that and then you get to hold accele for 25min just to get to the other end of the sector. Remember terran sectors in which you fly 3 mins from gate to gate on 10X seta? Now every sector is like a terran sector, except there is no seta.

Same goes for walking around in the station. Yes in X3 you beam to another ship and it breaks immersion. But walking 5mins just to buy some E-cells?

A lot of people cry for a new X3 not because they like the lifelessness, but because with the lifelessness comes efficiency. Not one of them will trade it for the fake and forced immersion factors in XR. For example, traffics are great but not so much when ships disappear upon exiting highways. Goods coming from thin air, manual scanning of stations, small talks, etc. It's moderately fun when you're just exploring, but when for the 200th time, plain tedious.

I think at this point most people can tell Ego is no longer interested in going down the sandbox route that made X3 a favorite. It's like FNV and FO4 all over again, but I still hope X4 can be a good game on its own.

[Dreez]

X3:TC is a masterpice 4X game that i recommend to anyone who likes spacegames,
one of the overall best and most captivating games i've played.
XR broke my Egosoft-heart, i just hope that X4 will glue it back together.

With the last years disappointing releases of games from various developers,
i've learned to not have any expectations, no hopes, just wait for reviews and never pre-order.

I still pray that CP2077 won't destory CDPR.

[X2-Illuminatus]

However, remove that and then you get to hold accele for 25min just to get to the other end of the sector. Remember terran sectors in which you fly 3 mins from gate to gate on 10X seta? Now every sector is like a terran sector, except there is no seta.

SETA is already in X Rebirth, and was confirmed for X4, too.

Will SETA be a part of X4?
Yes, SETA will be part of the game.

Additionally, in the last livestream a "travel drive" was showcased, which is able to accelerate your ship to even greater speeds than the Booster is. Mind you there is still some balancing necessary, but judging from what has been shown so far there is good reason to believe that the travel through big sectors won't be as boring as in X3.

Same goes for walking around in the station. Yes in X3 you beam to another ship and it breaks immersion. But walking 5mins just to buy some E-cells?

You don't have to walk around in stations to buy ordinary products in X Rebirth. Seeing the steps, which were taken to adjust station gameplay in X Rebirth, together with the announcement that station gameplay will be reduced and much more tailored to specific gameplay in X4, it's unlikely that you will have to walk to buy products in X4 either.

Are we forced to walk on stations or can we control all aspects from cockpit?
Platform gameplay has been reduced in comparison to X Rebirth. However, there are new interaction possibilities on platforms, and walking will always have a real purpose, for example as part of missions.

...

Will we be able to walk around on the inside of our station?
Only in certain places, like docks.

...

Will some capship have more interior than just a bridge? E.g Carrier hangar?
Possibly some, but don't expect a full interior. We are limiting interior modelling to areas that are relevant to gameplay (and by that I mean gameplay we actually have, not potential gameplay that some people might like but doesn't actually exist in the game).

Goods coming from thin air, manual scanning of stations, small talks, etc.

Certain goods coming from thin air and simply vanishing to simulate some sort of consumption was the case in all X games, including X3. Additionally, ships (except those produced in the PHQ) and stations were created from thin air as well. X Rebirth improved on this already by requiring resources for ship and station production. X4 will improve this even further:

Most detailed X economy ever:

One of the key selling points of X games has always been the realistic, simulated economy. Wares produced by hundreds of stations and transported by thousands of ships are actually traded by NPCs and prices develop based on this simulated economy. This is the foundation of our living and breathing universe. Now with X4, we have taken another, massive step. For the first time in any X game, all parts of the NPC economy are manufactured from resources. Ships, weapons, upgrades, ammo and even stations. You name it. Everything comes out of the simulated economy.

Will spawnpoints of ships be more logical and realistic?
In X:R ships often spawned out of nowhere right next to their target station or far away from any realistic home zone, which felt really unrealistic and static. Will X4 do the same or will ships, even smaller ones, actually spawn in shipyards/next to shipyards and fly from there to their target zone, like in earlier X games?
Wherever practical, ships will be built rather than spawned.

Additionally, if you compare the ware production cycles of X3 and X Rebirth, you will notice that the latter is much more sophisticated.

Manual scanning of stations will no longer be necessary in X4.

Is there still the need to scan the entire station?
No, there isn't and the whole the scan gameplay has changed. It's not 100% decided yet, but we do not have this whole gameplay with flying from info point to info point to collect information for a station. There is still information collection and you will have to fly or you have an opportunity to fly over the surface of a station sometimes, but it is not necessary to do that all the time. It's a special thing usually done in missions only and it works differently, but more on that later.

Smalltalk gameplay has been reduced in X Rebirth already, and will be optional in most cases in X4, too.

Will NPC interaction be completely optional or is it required to access certain features?
Docking to talk to an NPC will be optional for most things, but there may be some specific activities that require it.

[Slashman]

The promised ability to fly all ships has already turned out to be a bit of a fib - they've since stated you won't be able to fly Xenon ships and there are no plans to change that. I imagine it's a similar answer for Kha'ak, if they even make it into the game.

Really? People are nitpicking over the fact that we won't fly Xenon or Kha'ak ships? When all the ships of the included other races will be available?

Which speaking of the latter, it has also been confirmed that the game will ship without the Boron, and any meaningful content for the Split. Since Terrans aren't expected to feature in the game either, this means a good four factions will be missing from the game, with all that entails, perhaps indefinitely.

Yeah, heaven forbid that for ONCE Egosoft makes a game with a reasonable starting scope with breathing room to expand later. I'm fine letting them flesh out the races that are confirmed and then taking the time to add additional races when it is more convenient.

'Crafting' and station interiors are going to feature in the game, both of which elicit mixed opinions in oldschool X players at best and could be seen as concerning with regards to the direction X4 is taking.

Can't speak to crafting, but there is research. Also station interiors are not going to be the same as XR because walking around is much more limited in X4 to the cockpit/bridge of the ship and to the landing platform of the station.

Highways are also once again confirmed to be a feature, albeit supposedly less on the nose than those in XR.

From all accounts, these will be optional in X4. There is an additional travel system that is ship based.

Long story short, there are a lot of warning signs to have those burned by XR feel let down or disappointed with the prospect of X4 at this point. As for myself, I personally never played XR so perhaps I'm approaching things from a slightly more optimistic point of view. It does seem like Egosoft are genuinely listening and reaching out to the community, and the worrying aspects aside I do feel X4 shows promise. So I'm likewise happy to wait and see how things pan out, hopefully for the better.

I'm optimistic but not overhyped. I think at this point, this is the most reasonable way to look at things.

[ajax34i]

Cautiously optimistic.

I like:
- the new graphics since X-R
- the capital ships with surface elements gameplay
- the dogfighting gameplay

I don't mind:
- walking around on platforms if it's optional

I hate:
- losing control of the ship during voiced audio
- dialogue wheels in the middle of joystick flight
- a single info screen / radar in the ship (need multiple)
- floating text pop-ups beyond the tutorial
- camera bobbing during docking transitions (our brains steady-cam what we see in RL)
- convo minigames (BioWare pioneered the convo wheel with Mass Effect, and every game that has used it since does NOT have a mini-game as part of the dialogue. Let us be topic experts if we read / unlock the appropriate entries in the Encyclopedia, and give us 5 bars automatically if we're experts. Also let us start the game with a populated lore / recent history section in the Encyclopedia, which we can read to become "experts" at recent history, from the first minute in-game)

[Rice]

Cautiously optimistic.

- convo minigames (BioWare pioneered the convo wheel with Mass Effect, and every game that has used it since does NOT have a mini-game as part of the dialogue.

Oh boy seems you forgot the tiring quicktime action for renegard and paragon, which happens here and there, which seemed to give on "action" inside the Cutscenes incorporate with the " Convo-Wheele".... i hated it never archived a very high good or evil score, because i'm a person who loves to put the hands away from the gaming device at such scenes

[Graaf]

In short...wth are we complaining about?

Because ...
- it really is just Rebirth 2.
- the Borons aren't coming back.
- you still cannot pilot Capital Ships.
- I still haven't seen my preferred play-style come back.
- we still don't have those cockpit enhancements we asked for in X2.

[gbjbaanb]

Yes in X3 you beam to another ship and it breaks immersion.

But apparently teleporting to another ship across the galaxy (in a feeble attempt to replace the jump drive) is fine.....

there is a lot of nonsense spoken about the game options, and I think ES are listening to it all like they did when XR was being made. Thi sis why i implore them to do the decent thing and make X3++, not XR+.