Updated Information?

[kohlrak]

Given squash minds don't use Friend-or-Foe, I wonder if you could do something like this to make stations go boom without the agro.

[Timsup2nothin]

A something to try, dock an expendable ship at the station with a load of squash mines. Give it an order, and as soon as it undocks eject the entire cargo of mines. I'd guess that if you have enough of them it would eliminate the station, and you can hardly be blamed.

[kohlrak]

A something to try, dock an expendable ship at the station with a load of squash mines. Give it an order, and as soon as it undocks eject the entire cargo of mines. I'd guess that if you have enough of them it would eliminate the station, and you can hardly be blamed.

I don't have anything at the moment, but would be an interesting thing to try, especially if i can figure out how to get the ship out of the blast range. I'm mostly worried about whether or not the squashes do somehow get attributed to you.

[lyonhaert]

I don't have anything at the moment, but would be an interesting thing to try, especially if i can figure out how to get the ship out of the blast range. I'm mostly worried about whether or not the squashes do somehow get attributed to you.

Pretty sure the idea is you can't get it out of the blast. "Expendable ship" and so on. Do MORTs follow a "docking lane" into and out of a station in X2? That would keep them from getting away, too.

Tried them out last night a little in X3TC. They don't arm as soon as they're dropped, and the lack of a rep hit may have been a bug that got fixed. Snatched a Gannet and noted my Argon rep (police race) and Yaki rep (in case of friendly fire). Saved right before the first Argon Police Disco entered that sector and tried some variations. Didn't seem to matter whether I manually detonated them or activated and let the ships trigger them, I would lose rep. Same for a Paranid military group that was raiding the Yaki.

Then I scripted some more mines into my TM and maneuvered very close to a station to try and release them, but they all spawned outside of the station's "bubble". Detonation from there didn't even scratch the station's shields. And since stations' shields and hulls are on par with M1/M2 and people use those to clear minefields, you'd need a lot of them. Later I'll see if I can push the spawned mines closer like the "reposition Build Station nav beacon" trick, but I bet they'll just be collected back into my hold.

Can't say if there's a rep hit from mines in X2, though.

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't have anything at the moment, but would be an interesting thing to try, especially if i can figure out how to get the ship out of the blast range. I'm mostly worried about whether or not the squashes do somehow get attributed to you.

Pretty sure the idea is you can't get it out of the blast. "Expendable ship" and so on. Do MORTs follow a "docking lane" into and out of a station in X2? That would keep them from getting away, too.

Tried them out last night a little in X3TC. They don't arm as soon as they're dropped, and the lack of a rep hit may have been a bug that got fixed. Snatched a Gannet and noted my Argon rep (police race) and Yaki rep (in case of friendly fire). Saved right before the first Argon Police Disco entered that sector and tried some variations. Didn't seem to matter whether I manually detonated them or activated and let the ships trigger them, I would lose rep. Same for a Paranid military group that was raiding the Yaki.

Then I scripted some more mines into my TM and maneuvered very close to a station to try and release them, but they all spawned outside of the station's "bubble". Detonation from there didn't even scratch the station's shields. And since stations' shields and hulls are on par with M1/M2 and people use those to clear minefields, you'd need a lot of them. Later I'll see if I can push the spawned mines closer like the "reposition Build Station nav beacon" trick, but I bet they'll just be collected back into my hold.

Can't say if there's a rep hit from mines in X2, though.

Key to not having them kick away from the station is being out of the sector when they drop and then getting them detonated without going in. Dropping a bunch while OOS and then triggering the collision algorithm to scatter them randomly about is an interesting and unpleasant concept that I hadn't thought of.

On the rep hit...I was thinking that the ship that triggers the mines would determine the rep hit, and since my intention was to trigger them with the 'expendable' ship that dropped them that should be zero, or even if somehow they delayed long enough for that ship to get away and then got triggered by the next ship coming to the dock at least it would be less than for blowing up the station. They might track rep for collateral damage as well though.

[lyonhaert]

Yeah, I was dropping them IS. I'll have to try positioning the TM very close and then take a fighter OOS before dropping them. The mines that had a rep hit were dropped IS by the ship I was piloting. I don't assume anything different will happen in regard to rep from a remote-operated ship dropping them, even OOS, because the mines were all green anyway but I'll give it a shot tonight. There's a nice group of Paranid about to come through a gate in that experimental save that will make great test subjects.

I'll try a few variations on causing damage, too. Detonating them manually OOS. Activating them and ordering a remote ship to get close to trigger. Activating and waiting for somebody else to trigger them.

[Timsup2nothin]

I highly recommend the first tactic I proposed, give a docked ship an order to go somewhere, then immediately eject the mines as soon as the option comes available. That should correlate to the pause between undocking and processing the next step in the orders, so the mines should wind up basically piled alongside the docking clamps, as long as you are out of sector.

[jlehtone]

Should one remind that there is no GoD in X2?

NPC Factories do not spawn. Docks, SY's, and Pirate Bases do return, but a lost NPC Factory is lost for good in X2. Only the player can build new factories and player does not gain credits by trading with player stations.

The X3's are a different story.

[Timsup2nothin]

Should one remind that there is no GoD in X2?

NPC Factories do not spawn. Docks, SY's, and Pirate Bases do return, but a lost NPC Factory is lost for good in X2. Only the player can build new factories and player does not gain credits by trading with player stations.

The X3's are a different story.

Translation: in X2 working on ways to blow up a factory is like deciding which gun to use to shoot yourself in the foot.

[lyonhaert]

Some folks just want to watch the world burn.

[Timsup2nothin]

Okay, that was funny.

[kohlrak]

I don't have anything at the moment, but would be an interesting thing to try, especially if i can figure out how to get the ship out of the blast range. I'm mostly worried about whether or not the squashes do somehow get attributed to you.

Pretty sure the idea is you can't get it out of the blast. "Expendable ship" and so on. Do MORTs follow a "docking lane" into and out of a station in X2? That would keep them from getting away, too.

Tried them out last night a little in X3TC. They don't arm as soon as they're dropped, and the lack of a rep hit may have been a bug that got fixed. Snatched a Gannet and noted my Argon rep (police race) and Yaki rep (in case of friendly fire). Saved right before the first Argon Police Disco entered that sector and tried some variations. Didn't seem to matter whether I manually detonated them or activated and let the ships trigger them, I would lose rep. Same for a Paranid military group that was raiding the Yaki.

Then I scripted some more mines into my TM and maneuvered very close to a station to try and release them, but they all spawned outside of the station's "bubble". Detonation from there didn't even scratch the station's shields. And since stations' shields and hulls are on par with M1/M2 and people use those to clear minefields, you'd need a lot of them. Later I'll see if I can push the spawned mines closer like the "reposition Build Station nav beacon" trick, but I bet they'll just be collected back into my hold.

Can't say if there's a rep hit from mines in X2, though.

Might be worth pulling off, anyway. Also consider that in some games, simultaneous explosions don't count separately, so spreading them around the station might make more sense. Lemme know how it turns out, as i'm still building my loop.

I don't have anything at the moment, but would be an interesting thing to try, especially if i can figure out how to get the ship out of the blast range. I'm mostly worried about whether or not the squashes do somehow get attributed to you.

Pretty sure the idea is you can't get it out of the blast. "Expendable ship" and so on. Do MORTs follow a "docking lane" into and out of a station in X2? That would keep them from getting away, too.

Tried them out last night a little in X3TC. They don't arm as soon as they're dropped, and the lack of a rep hit may have been a bug that got fixed. Snatched a Gannet and noted my Argon rep (police race) and Yaki rep (in case of friendly fire). Saved right before the first Argon Police Disco entered that sector and tried some variations. Didn't seem to matter whether I manually detonated them or activated and let the ships trigger them, I would lose rep. Same for a Paranid military group that was raiding the Yaki.

Then I scripted some more mines into my TM and maneuvered very close to a station to try and release them, but they all spawned outside of the station's "bubble". Detonation from there didn't even scratch the station's shields. And since stations' shields and hulls are on par with M1/M2 and people use those to clear minefields, you'd need a lot of them. Later I'll see if I can push the spawned mines closer like the "reposition Build Station nav beacon" trick, but I bet they'll just be collected back into my hold.

Can't say if there's a rep hit from mines in X2, though.

Key to not having them kick away from the station is being out of the sector when they drop and then getting them detonated without going in. Dropping a bunch while OOS and then triggering the collision algorithm to scatter them randomly about is an interesting and unpleasant concept that I hadn't thought of.

On the rep hit...I was thinking that the ship that triggers the mines would determine the rep hit, and since my intention was to trigger them with the 'expendable' ship that dropped them that should be zero, or even if somehow they delayed long enough for that ship to get away and then got triggered by the next ship coming to the dock at least it would be less than for blowing up the station. They might track rep for collateral damage as well though.

This could be interesting to pull off. Thank god for monitors. Put it close to the station with a monitor. Leave sector. Drop. Profit.

Yeah, I was dropping them IS. I'll have to try positioning the TM very close and then take a fighter OOS before dropping them. The mines that had a rep hit were dropped IS by the ship I was piloting. I don't assume anything different will happen in regard to rep from a remote-operated ship dropping them, even OOS, because the mines were all green anyway but I'll give it a shot tonight. There's a nice group of Paranid about to come through a gate in that experimental save that will make great test subjects.

I'll try a few variations on causing damage, too. Detonating them manually OOS. Activating them and ordering a remote ship to get close to trigger. Activating and waiting for somebody else to trigger them.

They have friend-or-foe? Or is that just to keep an eye on your own mines?

I highly recommend the first tactic I proposed, give a docked ship an order to go somewhere, then immediately eject the mines as soon as the option comes available. That should correlate to the pause between undocking and processing the next step in the orders, so the mines should wind up basically piled alongside the docking clamps, as long as you are out of sector.

Worst case scenario, i could sacrifice a ship. If triggering ship gets the rep loss, I could always try to time it when the ship makes final into the station.

Should one remind that there is no GoD in X2?

NPC Factories do not spawn. Docks, SY's, and Pirate Bases do return, but a lost NPC Factory is lost for good in X2. Only the player can build new factories and player does not gain credits by trading with player stations.

The X3's are a different story.

This is good news. This is precisely want.

Should one remind that there is no GoD in X2?

NPC Factories do not spawn. Docks, SY's, and Pirate Bases do return, but a lost NPC Factory is lost for good in X2. Only the player can build new factories and player does not gain credits by trading with player stations.

The X3's are a different story.

Translation: in X2 working on ways to blow up a factory is like deciding which gun to use to shoot yourself in the foot.

Sektor 21 has the right idea.

Destroy the right factories, not all of them. Then as the NPC must buy your product at whatever price you set it, you increase profit margins. Plus, I have a bone to pick with certain stations making it hard for me to make any progress. In particular, the Bofu plants near Getsu Fune.

EDIT: There's also a pretty interesting factory in Herron's Nebula. Would be a shame if someone lit a match near all that alcohol.

EDIT2: I just realized I'm the reason why the Argon Federation bans alcohol in the next game.

EDIT3: I've read here that SPPs break the economy here, and I think i finally see why. They're the most needed and profitable station. I think the real problem, though, is the trading stations. They keep the price right at 16, so as you start to try to become self-sufficient, you'll end up needing crystals to get the whole works going. What i'm finding is that my ships are buying from the trading stations, whom, in turn, are buying from me. Their SPPs don't need crystals, which keeps the market from being saturated enough to make a profit that way, either, since you pretty much need to start making your own crystals. I'm hoping that once I get this cycle complete (or skip the bogas facts) and everyone's got enough energy to keep from flashing, that we'll net accumulate energy. I have this feeling we won't, though.

[lyonhaert]

They have friend-or-foe? Or is that just to keep an eye on your own mines?

SQUASH mines have no friend/foe settings. Once armed, they detonate for anyone's movement. At one point I had ejected a cluster near my TM remotely and armed them. They didn't detonate until I told the TM to jump.

Destroy the right factories, not all of them. Then as the NPC must buy your product at whatever price you set it, you increase profit margins. Plus, I have a bone to pick with certain stations making it hard for me to make any progress. In particular, the Bofu plants near Getsu Fune.

Figured you were going for something like that.

Anyway, quick rundown of my results from various fiddling with the mines in X3:TC.

Regardless of IS, OSS, manual detonated, or proximity triggered, they will cause rep loss with whoever they hit because they're the source of damage and you're their owner. (Barring cheatyface stuff like using a script to change their owner to someone else.)

The only way I could get a cluster of mines close to an SPP-M (8,000 MJ shields, 400,000 hull) was by laying them nearby and dragging the bloody station to them. But that means I have to be the owner of the station for the tractor beam to work. (How's that stop a tractor beam from working?) Even then, 200 of them should have at least put enough of a dent in the shields that it wouldn't register as 100% anymore. Even a Mosquito missile causes it to flicker to 99% and back to 100%. I think stations are immune to the mines.

I couldn't be able to tell you if their behavior is any different in X2. You could use the script editor to help you experiment, probably.

Since that was anticlimactic, some funny screen shots: These two Ryu who tried to get cozy. I'm not leaving my ships clustered around that gate anymore. And then there's this overkill Ware Delivery mission.

[kohlrak]

They have friend-or-foe? Or is that just to keep an eye on your own mines?

SQUASH mines have no friend/foe settings. Once armed, they detonate for anyone's movement. At one point I had ejected a cluster near my TM remotely and armed them. They didn't detonate until I told the TM to jump.

Destroy the right factories, not all of them. Then as the NPC must buy your product at whatever price you set it, you increase profit margins. Plus, I have a bone to pick with certain stations making it hard for me to make any progress. In particular, the Bofu plants near Getsu Fune.

Figured you were going for something like that.

Anyway, quick rundown of my results from various fiddling with the mines in X3:TC.

Regardless of IS, OSS, manual detonated, or proximity triggered, they will cause rep loss with whoever they hit because they're the source of damage and you're their owner. (Barring cheatyface stuff like using a script to change their owner to someone else.)

The only way I could get a cluster of mines close to an SPP-M (8,000 MJ shields, 400,000 hull) was by laying them nearby and dragging the bloody station to them. But that means I have to be the owner of the station for the tractor beam to work. (How's that stop a tractor beam from working?) Even then, 200 of them should have at least put enough of a dent in the shields that it wouldn't register as 100% anymore. Even a Mosquito missile causes it to flicker to 99% and back to 100%. I think stations are immune to the mines.

I couldn't be able to tell you if their behavior is any different in X2. You could use the script editor to help you experiment, probably.

Since that was anticlimactic, some funny screen shots: These two Ryu who tried to get cozy. I'm not leaving my ships clustered around that gate anymore. And then there's this overkill Ware Delivery mission.

I need that energy. Melenaus' Paradise (east of Getsu Fune) is so starved of energy, it's ridiculous. I'm fixing it up, now, but I can't afford what I need. Good thing i didn't blow up the Bofu plants. What i really need is to take out the SPPs. In between the trading station taking my energy just to resell it back to me (i think i got a fix for that) and the SPPs draining the few crystal coming out, it's a mess. The problem is the Bofu plants are too slow.

How's X3's economy? Will i be less tempted?

On a side note,

Spoiler

Show

I did the Melenaus mission got the top boron rank

and I still don't have security clearance for Kha'ak info. I guess combat level factors in, too, not just race relations (for someone playing X2)?

[lyonhaert]

X3:TC and AP there are multiple approaches to improve the barely-working economy. Also, you can set your stations/complexes to not trade with other races. Some folks build huge station complexes to be self-sufficient and/or train up a number of Universal Traders to help the economy out a bit. But after reading Tim's threads on how he uses Commodity Logistics Software Mk2 in networks to entirety dominate transport, I really liked the idea and have been working on that. I think there's a fair amount of control over how you interact with the economy.

So you're going to blow up the SPPs so you can get more of the crystals?

[kohlrak]

X3:TC and AP there are multiple approaches to improve the barely-working economy. Also, you can set your stations/complexes to not trade with other races. Some folks build huge station complexes to be self-sufficient and/or train up a number of Universal Traders to help the economy out a bit. But after reading Tim's threads on how he uses Commodity Logistics Software Mk2 in networks to entirety dominate transport, I really liked the idea and have been working on that. I think there's a fair amount of control over how you interact with the economy.

So it's just as broken.

So you're going to blow up the SPPs so you can get more of the crystals?

'

Seriously considering it. Just added a few more things to my setup, a few extra freighters, set the entire pipeline up to the SPP to not trade with others. I am running freighters with SDS (essentially, you automatically distribute up to 3 different stations as sellers, and you can set the price, which i set to 0), so i'm not even working with trying to constantly keep each station's budget balanced with their internal mini-economy. Have some extra credits to set up the SMS (automanage prices for me). I think now that I don't have the constant money swapping going that somehow it sped everything below the SPP up. The SPP is not only outputting to all the things that ultimately lead to crystal production, but it's also selling the crystals. Thanks to 1 other station in the area that I own that's still using a trader, the auto-price for the energy cells never goes below 17 credits. Due to the rate the other factories output, i think it might actually work out. I'm gonna let it run while i sleep, and if it, as well as my new wheat farm can output enough credits that I wake up with 2mil or more, and if i check the input supplies and they're all about half way or better, i'll call this loop a success, and i'll post precisely what is working. I think it might only be working right now due to a jumpstart thing I did, so i doubt it'll last 8 hours of 10x SETA. If it does, it'll be the last time i SETA, 'cause I won't need it anymore. I'll just start working on fixing up the freighters so they have more than 1MW shields and then go to town on starting to build sector patrols and start making the universe safe for my empire. Maybe then wipe everyone else out. We'll see once I have enough money.

[lyonhaert]

So it's just as broken.

It's my impression that a limping economy is part of the X games, thus one approach to playing is building a trade empire.

Maybe then wipe everyone else out. We'll see once I have enough money.

[jlehtone]

X2 NPC stations have ships that buy resources.
The buyers will head for a producer that has most in stock, for it is the cheapest. (A win-win for the buyer.)
However, a NPC Factory that is out of resources will pay maximum price for them.

Consumption rate of Docks and secondary resource is slower than the primary resource usage rate.

The Docks have fixed price. No NPC will ever buy from Docks. How do Docks get wares?

• Do they pay the average? If yes, then they have lower priority than the desperate Factories that are willing to pay above average. In worst case a Dock will never beat Factory buyers. However, the Docks will consume cheap surplus.
• What if Dock's ship is willing to pay maximum? If so, then Docks beat all but most desperate Factories. However, they get full easily. The Factories should thus have a "reasonable chance" to get (primary) resources.

Back in 2005 there were threads claiming that Trade Docks (or someone else) do buy from Player Crystal Fabs despite high/max Crystal price, and that Trade Docks were well stocked. IIRC, I did make use of that in 2005, game version 1.4. The 1.5 update were not suppose to do anything but add the "player stats export" feature.

Player ships can buy from Docks.
->
Player Xtal Fab produces Crystals.
NPC Trade Dock buys them at premium.
Player SPP buys Crystals back from the Dock.
==
The price difference is pure profitsss.


X2 NPC economy has (IIRC) overall shortage of ECells, and various local shortages of other wares. These provide clear opportunity for the player to "fill the holes" with player factories.

The SPP are lucrative, even if/after you add Crystal production of your own.

The production time of heavy weaponry is long. The NPC is quicker than the player Forges, but NPC does not have many Forges. M6 is relatively reliable sector patrol, but you will need 125MW shields and gHEPTs for many ships.



X3 economy is different in various ways:

• NPC Stations do not have ships. They are at the mercy of Free Traders
• Free Traders select a ware, buy from cheapest nearby source and then sell to best payer. Free Traders roam around. Free Traders are inefficient (essentially Trade Mk3 UT's without jumpdrives and shepherd)
• There are no real shortages of anything (apart from station stocks not being at "equilibrium" on the start moment, just like the X2 has)
• Scale: S, M, L, XL. All X2 stations are "S"; x1. M = x2, L = x5, XL = x10. For example, Crystal Fab L has 5 times larger stocks than the S had, and all amounts per cycle are multiplied by 5 too
• Price range of a ware at secondary resource consumer can be different from what it is at primary consumer. Usually more narrow, i.e. an empty primary consumer offers higher price than an empty secondary consumer. This supposedly guides the Free Traders to the primary consumers to ensure Factory production
• GoD. NPC Factories disappear and reappear, based on some heuristical "need". You cannot get rid of them for good (but you can have fun "getting close enough")

SDS? CLS Mk1. Kri'Me wrote an original script, SDS. Lucike made the second iteration and renamed it CLS Mk1. If you do let the CLS pilot to "level up", it can deliver to 20 Stations.


Auto-adjusting prices with SMS reduces the advantage the player has: fixed arbitrary prices ensures that every transaction achieves known profit. The adjusting prices trade that with more continuous production.

[kohlrak]

So it's just as broken.

It's my impression that a limping economy is part of the X games, thus one approach to playing is building a trade empire.

Maybe then wipe everyone else out. We'll see once I have enough money.

The way it limps though makes it harder, IMO. The things that are missing the most still cost that first million credits. The missing plants are the most expensive. However, i learned my lesson: instead of fixing up the ships i wanted to keep in preparation for the future, I should've stayed in the bayamon with an IonD and captured the lone orinocos until i had that first million, put a wheat farm in the wall, and manually ran that thing until i could afford a cheap freighter to run it for me. I would've had my M6 before the kha'ak would've shown up. Now i'm flying the lowest grade M3 trying to hide from the Kha'ak, not capturing anything anymore, and using the Jump Drive to jump from one super safe sector to another.

X2 NPC stations have ships that buy resources.
The buyers will head for a producer that has most in stock, for it is the cheapest. (A win-win for the buyer.)
However, a NPC Factory that is out of resources will pay maximum price for them.

Consumption rate of Docks and secondary resource is slower than the primary resource usage rate.

The Docks have fixed price. No NPC will ever buy from Docks. How do Docks get wares?

• Do they pay the average? If yes, then they have lower priority than the desperate Factories that are willing to pay above average. In worst case a Dock will never beat Factory buyers. However, the Docks will consume cheap surplus.
• What if Dock's ship is willing to pay maximum? If so, then Docks beat all but most desperate Factories. However, they get full easily. The Factories should thus have a "reasonable chance" to get (primary) resources.

Back in 2005 there were threads claiming that Trade Docks (or someone else) do buy from Player Crystal Fabs despite high/max Crystal price, and that Trade Docks were well stocked. IIRC, I did make use of that in 2005, game version 1.4. The 1.5 update were not suppose to do anything but add the "player stats export" feature.

Player ships can buy from Docks.
->
Player Xtal Fab produces Crystals.
NPC Trade Dock buys them at premium.
Player SPP buys Crystals back from the Dock.
==
The price difference is pure profitsss.

The problem is, you loose money in the time it takes for you to go buy the crystals back, if your crystal fab is directly beside your SPP, which mine is. Perhaps, it's a little too close, because the sector map shows alot of dancing near my mess.

X2 NPC economy has (IIRC) overall shortage of ECells, and various local shortages of other wares. These provide clear opportunity for the player to "fill the holes" with player factories.

I feel like you need to already have an opportunity before you can invest. The things that are short always seem to cost a mil: the wheat farm near argon prime, and getsu fune region's need for Bofu Labs.

The SPP are lucrative, even if/after you add Crystal production of your own.

My problem is that I started with a silicon mine in getsu fune (i was a few short of the ore mine for the famous roid), which was always running out of power and turning flashy yellow. I could've adjusted the price, but the profit margins were bad to begin with. So, i figured i'd build an SPP. Realized i needed a crystal fab. Then i got smart and decided to look where the problem was, which was only one layer further. Lesson learned: look at the overall economy before grabbing the gold at the end. Instead of filling in the holes, i ended up making a loop that I didn't really need to be a loop. Now i'm semi-competently fixing the loop. I need another Bofu plant, since the BoGas is so plentiful here, and i think i could run 2 off of a single bogas plant (we'll see). I'll probably shut off the SPP so that the factories can re-prime themselves, let it run, and see where i need to add anything, if I do. Surplus with no production is, obviously, OK if it's not too much surplus.

The production time of heavy weaponry is long. The NPC is quicker than the player Forges, but NPC does not have many Forges. M6 is relatively reliable sector patrol, but you will need 125MW shields and gHEPTs for many ships.

Yeah, and every time I go to one, it's empty. I think the trading stations double as sinks for the products that they sell.

X3 economy is different in various ways:

• NPC Stations do not have ships. They are at the mercy of Free Traders
• Free Traders select a ware, buy from cheapest nearby source and then sell to best payer. Free Traders roam around. Free Traders are inefficient (essentially Trade Mk3 UT's without jumpdrives and shepherd)
• There are no real shortages of anything (apart from station stocks not being at "equilibrium" on the start moment, just like the X2 has)
• Scale: S, M, L, XL. All X2 stations are "S"; x1. M = x2, L = x5, XL = x10. For example, Crystal Fab L has 5 times larger stocks than the S had, and all amounts per cycle are multiplied by 5 too
• Price range of a ware at secondary resource consumer can be different from what it is at primary consumer. Usually more narrow, i.e. an empty primary consumer offers higher price than an empty secondary consumer. This supposedly guides the Free Traders to the primary consumers to ensure Factory production

So, more realistic, even if still very unrealistic (stations having their own ships is realistic, because we like having reliable supplies).

[*]GoD. NPC Factories disappear and reappear, based on some heuristical "need". You cannot get rid of them for good (but you can have fun "getting close enough")[/list]

So the economy adapts? So if I build an SPP, for example, sucking up all the crystals, the AI will try to compensate by building something that eats crystals and a chain to make crystals? Then if I try to loop, i build something else that it then further adds, making diminishing returns for all stations every time i build?

SDS? CLS Mk1. Kri'Me wrote an original script, SDS. Lucike made the second iteration and renamed it CLS Mk1. If you do let the CLS pilot to "level up", it can deliver to 20 Stations.

I wish I could do multiple sources, or a sector trader that basically flows between all my stations looking for needs. It seems more effective for stations to go grab what they need, but letting them have money at all seems to create these nasty situations. I feel i'm just going to get tangled as it is, because I can't really see who's doing what runs to where so i'd have to shut down the freighters for the entire station. This isn't so bad, though, as i just check which freighters a given station owns and shut them down and just figure out what all i want them to go through ,and 2 or 3 freighters with 3 targets max isn't that bad.

Or is that an X3 exclusive?

Auto-adjusting prices with SMS reduces the advantage the player has: fixed arbitrary prices ensures that every transaction achieves known profit. The adjusting prices trade that with more continuous production.

What i want is to constantly sell at the top price they'll actually bite. Since that fluctuates, makes more sense to use SMS if i want to fire and forget, and start building more stations or straight up abstract the chain/loop as a single unit.

My big plan in that region at this point is to build every weapon plant i'd want (since it has that awesome ore roid, i figure that and silicon are the only things that can't be placed just anywhere). If I know i'm going to want something else, i'll "close" the "battery," build the plants necessary for my IonD, for example, and I'd have a dedicated "production freighter" or two that goes around taking from the battery and the other plants building what i want, then I can shut it off. Another idea I had was to build everyhting I need to build everything, but basically letting them "fill up" but not letting them sell. Basically, everything would eventually stabalize and charge everything, then I take out what i need as i need it (well, have maybe a boron Orca [since i can buy one right there] hold everything i need for my next purchase while i'm making money on another group of factories, then when i buy it, i should have everything i need). Make money somewhere else.

[lyonhaert]

GoD. NPC Factories disappear and reappear, based on some heuristical "need". You cannot get rid of them for good (but you can have fun "getting close enough")

So the economy adapts? So if I build an SPP, for example, sucking up all the crystals, the AI will try to compensate by building something that eats crystals and a chain to make crystals? Then if I try to loop, i build something else that it then further adds, making diminishing returns for all stations every time i build?

Not so much. Each sector still just has it's set stations, but some stations will cease to exist and later exist again at a different position. There are things that will prevent GoD from making a station disappear (having a player-owned ship docked is one), and my understanding is that things like standstill production make it more likely a station will be chosen while steady production (resources being sold without sitting empty long and products being bought without sitting full long) makes it less likely.

But it also seems pretty random to me. It's seems to me like it just wants to keep the "landscape" of the universe shifting.