Station complexity concern

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csaba
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Station complexity concern

Post by csaba » Mon, 8. Jan 18, 21:13

Hello,


I have some concerns with the new modular progression of stations. We saw in the streams that the modules were pretty similar to the XR station modules however with the new system we have to build them piece by piece without the XR's blueprint system.

You said that the bare minimum is a storage, a habitat, a dock and a production facility. However XR had a LOT more modules. For starters there were 4 different ware types (container, bulk, liquid, energy). One can find himself/herself very fast confused if (s)he doesn't know right from top of his/her head which production facility needs which types in what ratio.

Secondly the bonus structures, Administration, Logistics, Security, Radar and the two Tesla chargers are not always self explanatory. Like how many do you need of each? Or for example would putting a Tesla Duo charger on a wheat farm do anything? Since it is the one by description that uses antimatter cells to turn into energy while crops don't really need an antimatter worth of energy to run.

Thirdly Targon Tracers (the floating weapon platforms). Is there a limit to those? First thing I would do is to build a freaking Death Star if not which is not really X like.

You said there will be guiding numbers displayed but with this complexity I fear the large majority of players would get frustrated with this part of the game.

Will there be still some templates for each production type so people who don't like to make 100 row spreadsheets still get into station building?

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Mon, 8. Jan 18, 21:36

I don't see it as that much different in concept from the old X3 system. There, you could build a complex with any combination of stations you wanted, whether they worked together or not. Players soon learned what combinations worked. As long as there are good descriptions of what each component does, I think most players won't have a problem. And as in the X3 games, someone is bound to create a 'complex creator' type of app for those who need such things. :wink:
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csaba
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Post by csaba » Mon, 8. Jan 18, 21:52

Nanook wrote:I don't see it as that much different in concept from the old X3 system. There, you could build a complex with any combination of stations you wanted, whether they worked together or not. Players soon learned what combinations worked. As long as there are good descriptions of what each component does, I think most players won't have a problem. And as in the X3 games, someone is bound to create a 'complex creator' type of app for those who need such things. :wink:
In X3 the stations worked separately as well while here if you don't put the right amount of storage for a ware type you get lopsided production making it underperform compared to the AI-logic built stations. You might forget that chemical compounds need container storage and run off on a mission coming back after hours realizing that your station is not working.

The AI will also have a logic exactly how many bonus modules to build to have maximized production while you will be losing credits with an uncompetitive design.

My concern is not wether people will figure out how to produce stuff, it is wether they will be able to optimize said production. If I would have never played XR I would build a huge city of habitats SG:Atlantis style and later wonder how I'm barely making any money.

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Mon, 8. Jan 18, 22:27

csaba wrote:...If I would have never played XR I would build a huge city of habitats SG:Atlantis style and later wonder how I'm barely making any money.
So you'd build a huge city with no industry and you'd wonder why you're not making much money? :lol:
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Ezarkal
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Post by Ezarkal » Mon, 8. Jan 18, 22:50

My guess is there would be a few examples or preset builds from which the player can get some inspirations for his first few builds.
If no such preset builds exists, you can always just look at the existing NPC stations and try to see how it balances out.

Plus, if I recall correctly, it's been said somewhere that you can recycle some station modules. So if you make a really dysfunctional station, I guess you could always just restart it all over.
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csaba
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Post by csaba » Mon, 8. Jan 18, 23:26

Nanook wrote:
csaba wrote:...If I would have never played XR I would build a huge city of habitats SG:Atlantis style and later wonder how I'm barely making any money.
So you'd build a huge city with no industry and you'd wonder why you're not making much money? :lol:

Ever played the capitalism games? You can make money on renting apartments. :lol:
Ezarkal wrote:
Plus, if I recall correctly, it's been said somewhere that you can recycle some station modules. So if you make a really dysfunctional station, I guess you could always just restart it all over.
You'd loose some of the investment as was last stated so would add to the frustration imo

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Tue, 9. Jan 18, 02:52

csaba wrote:
Nanook wrote:
csaba wrote:...If I would have never played XR I would build a huge city of habitats SG:Atlantis style and later wonder how I'm barely making any money.
So you'd build a huge city with no industry and you'd wonder why you're not making much money? :lol:

Ever played the capitalism games? You can make money on renting apartments. :lol:...
I have, but I didn't 'own' the whole city and all those workers weren't on my payroll, so I wasn't paying them to pay me. :wink:
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Vandragorax
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Post by Vandragorax » Thu, 11. Jan 18, 13:06

From what I gathered, (and at least I HOPE), there will be some element of the UI that will show individual breakdown as well as total for inputs and outputs to allow us to balance station modules without any spread-sheeting required :)

I.e. if I add a wheat farm 'module' it will show missing inputs of xxx amount of 'energy cells', and xxx 'employees'. Then if I add a worker habitat, it should balance out some of the 'employees' requirement but perhaps some other new input will show up like 'workforce' to fill the 'employees' need, so I will have balanced the employees need for the wheat plant but need to find workforce via external trades.

Likewise the outputs will now include xxx amount of wheat (based on the max production from the 1 wheat 'module' so I can have a rough idea of how much wheat will be produced.

This should be shown in an easy to understand, coloured (green/red/black etc.) data screen in the UI during station building mode.

It seems like Egosoft are going ham with the UI/UX this time around, thankfully, because previous X games have lacked significantly in this regard, although each iteration of the X series does get progressively better :) I hope they will include lots of this sort of information so we can balance our stations out as we create them (not needing to open Excel and balance numbers there which would be a mistake IMHO).

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Thu, 11. Jan 18, 14:55

What you describe pretty much IS a spreadsheet. Only ingame. LOL
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Dupin
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Post by Dupin » Tue, 30. Jan 18, 03:26

I was very upset that the size of the constructed stations would be limited (10x10 kilometers, if I remember correctly). I want to build something monstrous, like Torus or Xenon Hub! :D
Last edited by Dupin on Tue, 30. Jan 18, 22:41, edited 1 time in total.

Seanchaidh
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Post by Seanchaidh » Tue, 30. Jan 18, 04:39

Nanook wrote:I have, but I didn't 'own' the whole city and all those workers weren't on my payroll, so I wasn't paying them to pay me. :wink:
Is there any particular reason the habitation modules have to house people who are on your payroll? Why not have some luxury apartments for the capital-owning class who profit from the labor of others [like the player eventually does]? That would seem reasonable unless we're assuming a particularly dismal sort of hypercapitalist future, in which there are only seven or so of those kinds of people. Perhaps more commonly, there could be apartments for people who commute elsewhere.

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