How many ships in x4

[Skeeter]

Just curious if a Dev can state how many ships are playable as I'm wondering that it might be not many. How many ships per faction and how many factions.

[Alan Phipps]

From the X4 Q&A Index:

Q. About how many ships are in the game?
A. Specifics like this are not possible to answer until much closer to release, as they are subject to change.

Q. Will there be any Terran and or Split ships/faction in X4? Are they copy from X-Rebirth, or expanded in some way?
A. I can't go into details about what specific factions and ships there are, not least because this is still subject to change.

Q. Will we be able to fly and command capital ships? with a bridge?
A. Yes, you will be able to fly all ships from their cockpit or bridge in case of Capital ships.

[gbjbaanb]

I read that "X3 had too many ships" (in the X3 wishlist thread) so expect to have significantly fewer of them. This might be a mistake, as some of the variants (vanguard, raider etc) made sense to how you played - eg raider variants that were faster v sentinel ones that were slower but better shielded.

It could be that the options to configure a set of ships (so you can effectively have the raider by putting better engines in) will be present, but we don't know that yet, and I think it would also be a mistake to go with the simplistic "upgrade component" option if there's little to no trade-off. The variants were better because you had to choose which type you wanted rather than make a single "do everything "super ship.

[Tomonor]

I read that "X3 had too many ships" (in the X3 wishlist thread) so expect to have significantly fewer of them. This might be a mistake, as some of the variants (vanguard, raider etc) made sense to how you played - eg raider variants that were faster v sentinel ones that were slower but better shielded.

It could be that the options to configure a set of ships (so you can effectively have the raider by putting better engines in) will be present, but we don't know that yet, and I think it would also be a mistake to go with the simplistic "upgrade component" option if there's little to no trade-off. The variants were better because you had to choose which type you wanted rather than make a single "do everything "super ship.

Ship variants did make sense. However, ship variants WITH the many other ships in the same class - not so much.

I would much prefer ships to be variable by upgrades, and have 2-3 ships per class per race.

But that's just my preferance, and Ego is probably overwhelmed by implementing the base ships as well.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

What I remember of X3 was expediency.

Want to populate a carrier with ships....

Jump around the universe and look at each shipyard to see what was available and then take the best you could get. This was due to the "strange" mechanics of equipment docks and shipyards.

As far as I am concerned the variants were only useful if the player was flying the ship. At all other times you wanted the best shield, weapon and speed combination you could get. That's because the AI would be flying the ships.

Now it would appear that you can customise a ship and produce your own variants. I am hoping that you can save multiple blueprints/loadouts for each ship type.

I can also foresee that a lot of my station building will be done to support shipyards and their production. Just so I can quickly assemble the fleet of my choice.

[Nanook]

...
As far as I am concerned the variants were only useful if the player was flying the ship. At all other times you wanted the best shield, weapon and speed combination you could get. ....

Some players preferred to have fast, lightly shielded ships as their carrier-borne craft while others preferred the slower more heavily shielded ones. In other words, some went with the Raider variant while others went with the Sentinels. Still others went with the basic models due to their cheaper price. All of the variants of fighters for a given race had their strengths and weaknesses. This is/was especially important for those players who wanted to role play a specific race and use only their ships.

I do agree that the variations in freighters was a bit much. We had the basic freighter, the hauler, the tanker, the tanker XL, the superfreighter, the superfreighter XL and the miner. The tankers were basically redundant since there was no distinction between liquid, gas or solid cargoes.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

I'll take your word for it that people actually played the game that way.

As I said I never did.

Expediency.

Even after building huge universe spanning empires, producing large numbers of all types of weapons and shields, I still had problems with stock levels in equipment docks.

Why in X3 the shipyards never had their own storage for weapons and shields I will never understand.

To play the game as you suggest must take a great deal of patience.

[Nanook]

...
To play the game as you suggest must take a great deal of patience.

Not really. You play as long as I, and many others, have, you need new challenges. Playing as a single race, for example, makes the game seem new again. I personally don't see the point in getting 'the best' of everything. The NPC's are dumb and it's too easy to roll right over them.

[Vandragorax]

For my own preference, I greatly disliked the variant method. As described above, I'd only ever buy the most expensive one anyway because it would be equipped with the best shields and weapons.

I'd much rather see X4 focus development on one ship in each class for each race, but having them fully customisable with modules (which I think is their plan).

So for example, there may be only one Argon "Scout" hull, but I can choose to either equip it with speed increase modules at the expense of weapons, or sacrifice some speed for a few weapon systems just in case. Likewise I could take the Paranid "heavy fighter" hull and either fill it bristling with weapons, or maybe take one or two weapons out to put shield boosters instead for survivability.

This sort of modular system is what I'm hoping they mean when they talk about modular ship hardpoints, and it is a system that would pretty much balance itself. If you find a ship with the same hull as yours but it's faster then it would mean it has fewer weapons or less shielding. This system allows us to make a cargo ship full of shield and engines, but it would need escorts with weapons alongside it, for example.

IMO this would be the most interesting type of gameplay, adding more 'variants' would do nothing but add clutter. Stick with a smaller number of 'hull types' which would each have different numbers of hardpoints, and then let us choose what we want to do with those things. And each hull would automatically start with a different set of stats based on its size and expected role (i.e. more cargo space, higher hull HP). The difference in 'variants' would come enough from the different races hulls having different base stats, thus favouring slightly different roles within each race.

This makes sense then having 3 primary races, one of them favouring speedy ships, one shielding, and one weaponry, but also giving the player the option to play to those strengths, or balance them out a bit more depending on what role we want that ship to play.

[Observe]

I do like having "special" rare variants available. Or, like in X3 Reunion (as I recall), the starting "Disco" had faster speed than any subsequent Disco's in the game. This special starting ship, help lasting value in the game (for me at least) - if only for collector reasons.

[JSDD]

I do like having "special" rare variants available. Or, like in X3 Reunion (as I recall), the starting "Disco" had faster speed than any subsequent Disco's in the game. This special starting ship, help lasting value in the game (for me at least) - if only for collector reasons.

i'm sure that scripting such overtuned ships will be very easy, and that some time after release somebody will write a plugin to do that (or a mod that changes starting conditions) ... "special ships" could be usual ships with special surface components/software/hardware with special functionality (added via script/mod)

i personally didnt like the idea of special ships like "paranid medusa prototype" as a separate ship type because it increases the total amount of different ship types in the game, which made it (almost) impossible to remember all the capabilities of eacht type

[Skeeter]

Maybe have standard ships as you do and you can cap normal ships. But what if, you can research "enhanced ships" by unlocking special parts which can be added. That or research enhanced ship designs which you can build like a falcon +1 which has slightly higher stats tho some stats are raised it needs at least one negative so it's not a perfect better ship.

Would make it a nice time sync for progession so something to strive for so your not bored.

A nice new paint job would make them more desirable also.

[Nikola515]

I would like to take quality over quantity any time when it comes to ships (just my opinion). In XR we had ships like Sul or Balor that wore pretty much useless do to AI. They wore good designed ships and they would have been good if they could do what they wore intended to do. Some of them wore fixed but little too late.... It look like they are working on it now so I'm glad to see that.

But what I would like to see where ships have special abilities. Also capital ships having its main weapon similar to Sucellus I would love to be on helm and firing that weapon on hopeless Paranid

[DaMuncha]

In X3TC we had a ship for M1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, trading, cargo, carriers, etc. and we had variations of all those ships for every race, plus there was NPC transport ships.

In X rebirth theres like 8 ships, in total (im exaggerating)

So yeah, X4 wont have as many classes of ships as X3, there will be S, M, L, XL, and utility ships, for every race. There will be more than XR but not as many as X3. Which is a little disappointing.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

I am assuming that the variants will be taken care of by the use of the different components that can be added to each ship body.

So I am hoping that the following would all be covered, standard model, prototype, raider, sentinel, vanguard, pirate, pirate raider, + and advanced.

I am also hoping the following are all adjustable, top speed, acceleration, steering, hull strength, max shield strength, shield reactor, cargo class, laser capacitor and laser recharge rates. Though I suspect hull strength and cargo class will be fixed per ship.

So depending on the number of parts available, within each ship class we may end up with more variation, but then we have less classes. I am not sure if anything will match the old M4.

[JSDD]

But what if, you can research "enhanced ships" by unlocking special parts which can be added. That or research enhanced ship designs which you can build like a falcon +1 which has slightly higher stats tho some stats are raised it needs at least one negative so it's not a perfect better ship.

... what if every ship (of the same type) is the same (regarding stats) with the ability to tune each stat individually so that in a sense every ship can be unique ?! i hope thats what egosoft does with x4, for example a falcon+1 is a falcon bought at any shipyard, docked at a special facility which has expertise in engine tunings, ordered to do something with its engines (which of course cost money/time/etc). "special unlocked components" can be installed by default, or the capability to install it can be added at another equipment dock/HQ ...

in short:
NOT a globally stored STATIC list of types/ship stats (TShips-like), but a locally stored DYNAMIC list of ship stats (in terms of limitations, like max. speed etc)

[Alan Phipps]

@ JSDD: I'm struggling to see how that differs much from a simple expansion in scope of what is in X3 now with its static TShips and dock-added tunings options. Even they had the option for overtuning in special circumstances - see below.

Obviously there also has to be a static table of set maxima for the elements by ship type/version (as there is in X3) or the (rich) player could simply pimp any ship into a overpowered supership and then never try a different ship type/version again. This is also why floating overtuning loot crates had to be so few in X games and so very difficult to find (as intended in vanilla).

[JSDD]

@ JSDD: I'm struggling to see how that differs much from a simple expansion in scope of what is in X3 now with its static TShips and dock-added tunings options. Even they had the option for overtuning in special circumstances - see below.

Obviously there also has to be a static table of set maxima for the elements by ship type/version (as there is in X3) or the (rich) player could simply pimp any ship into a overpowered supership and then never try a different ship type/version again. This is also why floating overtuning loot crates had to be so few in X games and so very difficult to find (as intended in vanilla).

i dont mean the "installed engine tunings count", i mean increasing the maximum achievable speed limit. in x3 you had for example the ability to install (lets say) 10 engine tunings on the nova to fly up to 165m/s. no matter what, each ship in the universe of type nova could only fly up to 165m/s. secret or dropped containers with "engine tuning" ware was an exception. or some overtuned plot rewards. why not removing that "limit" of 165m/s totally ? for example by researching/optimizing installable engine components

not everything should be dependent on money, tuning should also need its time to take place ...

or another example:
X3: max shield count and type = const.
X4: maybe the opportunity to exchange a engine component/fuel cell for another shield cell. or the opportunity to increase the efficiencies of shield generators (resulting in faster recharge)

the initial stats are of course static / stored in a file somewhere, but the ability to change / develop these stats should be available (and if a ship has changed stats, these are then stored locally on the ship/object)

[CtMurphy]

To be honest, why not just have the devs focus on the base models of the ships and a standard layout, after the game is released, they can let modders have fun with the multitudes of varients they could come out with and maybe even release all of the best one into the game, similar to the patches from X3 using modded content?

[Skeeter]

Modders will have a hard time as the pipeline of adding ships is hard as it's unchanged from rebirth and barely any mods added new ships to rebirth. As a Dev confirmed it's unchanged and not made any easier for x4.