Capital Combat

pasmon · Post by **pasmon** » Sun, 24. Dec 17, 15:25

In AP, a fleet with ships below M7 can be taken out effectively with a fully loaded tiger with sustainable damage.
What is the minimum fleet requirement(cheap) having fully loaded split tiger to take out a Terran fleet in war sectors containing destroyer, M7, M6 and fighters.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Sun, 24. Dec 17, 18:53

If you do have Split Tiger and patience, then you are already ready. Some Tornados and Typhoons for extra punch, perhaps.

Bill Huntington · Post by **Bill Huntington** » Sun, 24. Dec 17, 20:36

A Cobra with Hammers or a Skirnir with Shadows would make it easy. A Tyr would be more 'hands-on' but not that hard. The Tiger could probably do it with difficulty like the first poster said.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Sun, 24. Dec 17, 21:09

My off-the-wall and from left(ish) field would be to load up an M7M with Flails/Ghouls to obliterate all small-fry, a squadron of M8s for dealing with the big boys, and of course some sort of personal command ship (your Tiger would do just fine) - but then, I'm weird (or so I'm told. With annoying regularity.

)

lighters · Post by **lighters** » Mon, 25. Dec 17, 09:19

I'd rather disqualify M7Ms from this contest because their power is only limited by the amount of Hammer production factories you have.

If talking about weapon-based combat, the easiest is a player piloted M2 - Boreas or Tyr. A more diverse fleet like several M7s and M6s or a fighter wing may be more fun, but is not cheap - because you'll probably take losses. A player-piloted M7 like Tiger is cheaper but trickier, you need a lot of patience and strafing.

MrFiction · Post by **MrFiction** » Mon, 25. Dec 17, 11:27

If you're not against some cheesy combat you can wipe out any enemy with a Boreas by simply flying away and strafing. Although it's a boring tactic, 8 PPCs in the back turrets means everything blows up eventually. Constantly strafing means you incur minimal damage.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Mon, 25. Dec 17, 11:39

Depends on the definition of "cheap".

Patience does not require any credits, but is still not very cheap for everyone. (Btw, against fully loaded Skirnirs one preferably has something more that just the patience.)

Credits can be really cheap and easy, but one has to convert them into something tangible for there is no Bribe option on the Terrans.

Missiles could be cheap, if one infrastructure, and also feel "cheap" according to the code of honour of some combatants.

There is a minor side-effect on killing the Terran and ATF ships: they start to dislike you. Good or bad is not the point now. Terran RRF is.

When I enter a Terran sector, no RRF will appear. The moment the other ships of my fleet appear, the entire Terran RRF does join the party too. (I don't care whether the amount of RRF depends on my Combat rank, the size of my fleet or the amount of dislike I have gathered.)

Breaking out from a Gate with RRF on your flanks is obviously not trivial, particularly when you have to depend on the gerbils on your other ships.

There is a "cheap" solution: Jump Beacon. Get in with fast ship, fly far, deploy Beacon, and call in your fleet. You will be in battle formation by the time the RRF does reach you. "Cheap" as in "everything else but trivial".

For the record: a (not cheap) Terran raid party. Dragon and Jump Beacon; Kyoto with two Bombers, two Dolphin SF XL, and Ocelot; Cobra; two Sirokos; Griffon. Bombers Tomahawk everything big and reload from Dolphin. Cobra does the rest (and reloads from Dolphin). Griffon is a mere IonD platform to ensure that no boarding target carries undesirable equipment. The Sirokos do their standard duty and Ocelot is ready to rescue space suits. This is not a "fleet", this is a MORT (where the 'Trade' is of the deadly kind).

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Mon, 25. Dec 17, 12:32

jlehtone wrote: the gerbils on your other ships.

Thrake · Post by **Thrake** » Mon, 25. Dec 17, 13:06

lighters wrote:I'd rather disqualify M7Ms from this contest because their power is only limited by the amount of Hammer production factories you have.

If talking about weapon-based combat, the easiest is a player piloted M2 - Boreas or Tyr. A more diverse fleet like several M7s and M6s or a fighter wing may be more fun, but is not cheap - because you'll probably take losses. A player-piloted M7 like Tiger is cheaper but trickier, you need a lot of patience and strafing.

Depends. An obvious step with a warfleet is to get an M7. When you have one, another is cheaper than saving all the way up to M2. Using a combination of Deimos with Thresher changed my life, I simply load up the Thresher front with ion canons (the AI is a bit limited but charge and shoot is simplistic enough), with one or two salvos shields are down and while it does its thing I just use my superior shielding and exploit weak spots of ships to stay pretty safe while the IBL of my Deimos finish off ships. So long as I can dodge efficiently the anti capital turrets it works like a charm. I guess a tiger could be used instead of my deimos, although shielding is inferior it has better manoeuverability, speed, and it can mount front IBL to tear through the hull, that might actually be more deadly than my deimos, though I got a nice fighter wing in case things get hot too.

Obviously missiles are easier but I don't really find it very appealing, it's turning credits into an "I win" button. I sometimes happen to use them, but only really as a distraction as then the ship will direct its front guns to the missile so it allows me to evade front guns temporarily.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 25. Dec 17, 19:20

I will repeat...there is no problem in the universe that cannot be solved with a sufficient number of tomahawks.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Mon, 25. Dec 17, 20:57

Timsup2nothin wrote:I will repeat...there is no problem in the universe that cannot be solved with a sufficient number of tomahawks.

I was wondering how long before that... (Notice my suggestion above - Flails and Tommies... 'coz in fact there IS something that the latter aren't very good at dealing with - small fighters and such)

pasmon · Post by **pasmon** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 18:07

This is an interesting idea. However i am going to try out a combo of panther(mini M1) and tiger(mini M2).

ubuntufreakdragon · Post by **ubuntufreakdragon** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 18:41

Timsup2nothin wrote:I will repeat...there is no problem in the universe that cannot be solved with a sufficient number of tomahawks.

but there is one a fully equipped MARS M2.

I don't see the point in destroying fleets without a paying mission or boarding some of the enemies, war is expensive an you should get something back.

I personally don't like the Tiger because of the front guns, shooting is something for Mars and you wont have to face the enemy all the time and can concentrate on evading their shots.

Equipment a Tiger should be enought to shred one bigship at a time but if the is more you will hit your reloading cap and evading will become more difficult, too.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 19:03

The MARS is presumably a third party script. (Xbtf had M.A.R.S. ship extension, but that was not for turrets.)

I too do prefer the front turret, but it essentially means a Destroyer.

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:... war is expensive an you should get something back.

It is and you should. Every Teladi agrees with that. Does the feeling of satisfaction count as "getting something back"? Does pushing the war to a state that will predictably spawn ships with Jump Beacons sound like a fair reason for the toil?

To be honest, when I did get a Tiger, I had insufficient patience. Rather than pressing fleet operations, I did very quickly complete enough "paying missions" to get me a Python.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 20:38

jlehtone wrote: I too do prefer the front turret, but it essentially means a Destroyer.

Except for the Panther - one of my favourite things about that ship (of course, the capacious hangar deck is another - those Split pilots must be sleeping in their fighters, as there can't be much room left for quarters. And in the case of the Ariadne, that MUST be the case, unless the pilots go EVA to get to the central hull...)

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 21:21

RAVEN.myst wrote: Except for the Panther - one of my favourite things about that ship (of course, the capacious hangar deck is another - those Split pilots must be sleeping in their fighters, as there can't be much room left for quarters. And in the case of the Ariadne, that MUST be the case, unless the pilots go EVA to get to the central hull...)

Transporter device.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 21:50

Timsup2nothin wrote:
RAVEN.myst wrote: ... in the case of the Ariadne, that MUST be the case, unless the pilots go EVA to get to the central hull...)
Transporter device.

Meh

Boring...

Maybe to make them truly hardcore, they are made to do that distance EVA while the ship is transiting a jump tunnel...

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 21:55

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Timsup2nothin wrote:
Transporter device.
Meh Boring...

True. There's just some corner of my mind that is always processing "if they have this transporter technology available why wouldn't they...?"

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Thu, 28. Dec 17, 22:06

Timsup2nothin wrote:There's just some corner of my mind that is always processing "if they have this transporter technology available why wouldn't they...?"

I always figured that, with their vaunted "superior and much-envied technology", the Terrans should have been given the ability to do Star Trek-style boarding, for instance. After all, they don't even get boarding pod availability natively, but have beamers available at several stations. Of course, they also lack native marine recruiting facilities other than... *ahem*... "training exercises" conducted with the "cooperation" of their RRF ships - whereTF are *those* marines coming from? And of course they don't even get military academies for said marines... This aspect has always made me a little sad, as I really like to play my mono-ethnic games, but that particular aspect has always been denied me in Terran games unless I were to "corrupt" them...

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Fri, 29. Dec 17, 11:01

Timsup2nothin wrote:I will repeat...there is no problem in the universe that cannot be solved with a sufficient number of tomahawks.

Here is a hypothetical situation:

You have gone to war with a fleet. You have taken the big boys out with Tomahawk barrages, as recommended. Now you notice that your own Carrier (and its meticulously tuned Fighter compliment) were on the trajectory of one Bomber's Tomahawks.

As result, the Carrier is not there. Please advice on the optimal firing solution of additional Toms that will remedy the unexpected absence of the Carrier.

Oh yes, the extra Tomahawk clips were stored in that Carrier too ...

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