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ideal loadout for Argon Elite
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DrwHem





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PostPosted: Tue, 19. Dec 17, 18:50    Post subject: ideal loadout for Argon Elite Reply with quote Print

its has been a long time since i played this game so i dont remember what i used to use for the argon elite in terms of load-out. I completely forgot they even had a rear turret.
I was thinking of loading it up with either 6 phased repeater guns or 6 energy bolt chainguns. idk if it has the reactor to efecctively fire the 6 PRG but i also dont know if i can load the EBCG on the ship. also was thinking of a IRE for the rear turret for missile defense.

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Bill Huntington



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PostPosted: Tue, 19. Dec 17, 19:33    Post subject: Elite Reply with quote Print

I don't know your situation. Beginning?

When I have the Elite in Argon Patriot I'm glad to equip it with IRE and use it to cap some Paranid TS. When I have more $, I add two or three PACs and do just fine. More than that takes down the Energy too fast. With three or four slots for IRE it's still great for capping.

I upgrade to a PAC for the rear turret. It has more range for stopping missiles further away. An IRE might not stop a missile in time or have the stopping power to do it in one hit.

If I had the $ for PRG I usually had enough to upgrade to a Nova. So I don't know about the PRG for the Elite. I also stayed away because PRG doesn't transfer to another race's ships. PAC does.

Good luck.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 19. Dec 17, 19:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I can't say what would be ideal, but I can only comment on how I might outfit that ship. Its compatibilities are interestingly homogeneous: all its mounts support the same guns, namely IRE, PAC, MD, and PRG; sadly, no EBC. My own loadout would be either: PACs in the front and either PAC or PRG in the turret (set to Missile Defense - PRG is well-suited to this role, and with the less sustained firing that setting entails, it shouldn't overstrain the generator.); or: PRG in the turret and Mass Drivers in the frontal array - no generator issues, then, and brutal damage output against "appropriately sized" targets; the downsides: closer engagement range, but that's not usually a problem, and unsuited to capture duty.

Happy hunting Smile

EDIT: Bill raises a very valid point: if you are considering the more expensive armaments (PRG or MD), then you are in a position to perhaps rather consider a heavier ship. Also, you may consider an alternative: the OTAS Solano (if you like or have set yourself a restriction to Argon-only, then technically this still falls within it) - the ship is cheap, has a similar laser generator, similar or same weapon compatibilities, is faster, and packs more shields, but lacks a rear turret.


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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Tue, 19. Dec 17, 21:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

When I do the Argon Patriot start I almost always trade the Elite for a Disco Vanguard and a freighter. But it is a hardy little ship as long as you have access to 25MJ shields.

For guns I use four PACs in one bank for fighting and two IREs in another for fighter drones (I seem to get a lot of those launched at me for some reason Pirat ). In the turret I generally use an IRE, again because fighter drones. The Elite doesn't have enough generator capacity for sustained fire if you go much heavier.


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Cpt.Jericho





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 01:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

As hinted above, it's all about what you wanna do. Fast kills is usually the MD or PAC line - the ship's weapon energy isn't really good enough for six PRGs. If you're after capping ships, a mix of PACs and IREs will do the trick. PRGs are in my opinion too expensive to be put on an M4+. As for the turret: rather go PAC than IRE. It's your main missle defence system. So, don't be cheap on that one.


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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 01:26    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Cpt.Jericho wrote:
As hinted above, it's all about what you wanna do. Fast kills is usually the MD or PAC line - the ship's weapon energy isn't really good enough for six PRGs. If you're after capping ships, a mix of PACs and IREs will do the trick. PRGs are in my opinion too expensive to be put on an M4+. As for the turret: rather go PAC than IRE. It's your main missle defence system. So, don't be cheap on that one.


Are you sure a PAC is more effective? I think the IRE is more likely to hit, and even though missiles are more durable in AP they aren't that much more durable...or are they?


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Triaxx2





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 04:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I suspect that one's a hit box issue. Larger hitbox on the PAC, so it'll hit missiles more often than IRE's will.

Personally I'd say trade it in for something better, like a Buster Raider, but that's just me. I've never been a fan, finding it worse than both the Busters and the Nova's being slower than the Buster, but not as Tanky as the Nova, and less maneuverable than the Buster, without the Nova's boosted firepower.

M4's are around to intercept and kill M5's but the Elite can't get them in the crosshairs long enough to deliver the killing blow, so it's best hope is to hold still until they run into it.


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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 04:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Triaxx2 wrote:
I suspect that one's a hit box issue. Larger hitbox on the PAC, so it'll hit missiles more often than IRE's will.

Personally I'd say trade it in for something better, like a Buster Raider, but that's just me. I've never been a fan, finding it worse than both the Busters and the Nova's being slower than the Buster, but not as Tanky as the Nova, and less maneuverable than the Buster, without the Nova's boosted firepower.

M4's are around to intercept and kill M5's but the Elite can't get them in the crosshairs long enough to deliver the killing blow, so it's best hope is to hold still until they run into it.


I always considered it an "anti-interceptor." It can eliminate enemy interceptors really well but to kill scouts it needs to hit them with a fast missile so they come to it instead of it having to get to them.

However, the reality that a Nova Raider is superior in pretty much every way, including top speed, does make them sort of superfluous.


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SirNukes





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 05:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Triaxx2 wrote:
I suspect that one's a hit box issue. Larger hitbox on the PAC, so it'll hit missiles more often than IRE's will.

IRE and PAC and PRG bullets appear to have the same cross section, 0.07 x 0.07. The extra hull damage on PAC helps it with missile killing, though. From some quick research, light missiles have 50 hull, mediums have 90, tomahawks have 2700, so the 140 dps IRE can struggle in a way the 748 dps PAC doesn't.

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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 05:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

SirNukes wrote:
Triaxx2 wrote:
I suspect that one's a hit box issue. Larger hitbox on the PAC, so it'll hit missiles more often than IRE's will.

IRE and PAC and PRG bullets appear to have the same cross section, 0.07 x 0.07. The extra hull damage on PAC helps it with missile killing, though. From some quick research, light missiles have 50 hull, mediums have 90, tomahawks have 2700, so the 140 dps IRE can struggle in a way the 748 dps PAC doesn't.


This explains the need to turn and shoot down Tomahawks. I might have to switch to a turret PAC.


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HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 06:59    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Timsup2nothin wrote:
Cpt.Jericho wrote:
As hinted above, it's all about what you wanna do. Fast kills is usually the MD or PAC line - the ship's weapon energy isn't really good enough for six PRGs. If you're after capping ships, a mix of PACs and IREs will do the trick. PRGs are in my opinion too expensive to be put on an M4+. As for the turret: rather go PAC than IRE. It's your main missle defence system. So, don't be cheap on that one.


Are you sure a PAC is more effective? I think the IRE is more likely to hit, and even though missiles are more durable in AP they aren't that much more durable...or are they?

In AP I've had situations where a missile took a number of hits and still arrived to... say 'hello'. Admittedly, this was generally with the larger missiles (and some of the high-payload ones are quite tough indeed!), but I personally would never trust an IRE to get that particular job done - shorter range at lower damage? No, thanks Smile That being said, the IRE can be expected, due to its higher shot speed, to be more effective against the very smallest, most agile missiles. My top choice for anti-missile duty is always the PRG, given its shot speed that's comparable to that of the IRE, but higher damage and, even more importantly, far superior range, meaning that it gets to start shooting at that incoming parcel so much sooner, meaning it A) gets to shoot at it for longer, and B) should it be a blast-area munition, it can be set off at a safer distance. My second and more frequent (being the more "universal") choice is PAC, which is what I use when flying a ship not compatible with PRGs.

EDIT: Oops, I see SirNukes already posted some (characteristically specific Smile ) info.
It's worth noting that mosquitoes in X3AP have a "special anti-missile warhead" that's designed to disarm or detonate a missile's warhead on contact (this is, in similar words, in the documentation somewhere) - that's why regardless of the target missile's hull points, a hit by a MDM will neutralize it.


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Cpt.Jericho





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PostPosted: Wed, 20. Dec 17, 23:03    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The main reason why I prefer PACs over IREs in the turret is the longer range. Against weak fast missles the IRE may be the better choice due to its higher firing rate. But those missles hardly dent the shield when they hit. larger missles are moving not that much faster than the Elite. PACs usually have enough time to get those before they get close enough to do any damage. I don't use PRGs because of the higher energy consumption.


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