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[X3LU] Mayhem 2.2.2
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Aven Valkyr





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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 20:42    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hey guys, just wanted to give you a picture of my first playthrough. Loving the updated mod so far, it's been a little rough, made a lot of mistakes. Now I'm thinking of starting all over again Very Happy

My playthrough (2.2) was the "From Scratch" start. It plays a little more slowly, because you don't have your first sanctuary and research station by default. You also don't have navsats placed throughout the Omicron pipe. You also start with an M4, not an M6. So your firepower is drastically reduced. To offset this, you get a very sweet freighter with 24K m3 of cargo space, has decent shielding and firepower, and has a top speed of over 100 m/s. More on this later.

I started the game by parking my freighter (big mistake) and doing combat missions. I needed to raise some capitol, and my one big focus was getting my first sanctuary up and running (mistake #2). The combat missions were lucrative at first, but with only 25mj of shielding and a small capacitor, I found I got quickly outmatched at around fight rank 4. I did however manage to fight my way up enough so that I could claim a sector with a little cash on hand. It took me FOREVER to build my first research station. Food was a massive issue and my population died on more than one occasion. But finally I managed to get the research lab placed, and eventually a scruffin farm dropped so I could keep my citizens happy.

It was at this point that I started looking for things to do. The combat missions were impossible for me to win and money flow came to an abrupt halt. The really great thing about the From Scratch start is that at first you have no citizens to feed, and the money you make is money you keep, aside from maintenance upkeep (which is insanely expensive at first, almost needs fixing).

I started getting annihilated in combat missions and with a hungry population I decided I needed to do something different. I then remember watching my very fist "how to" video on X3. The guy went on and on about buying and selling energy cells to get started. And a lightbulb went off, I'm so used to doing combat missions, I completely forgot about this aspect of the game. And since my MASSIVE freighter comes stock with a jump drive and some other nice goodies (docking computer), I started doing energy cell trade runs. And OMG what a crazy good way of making money. The plants at Power Circle are overflowing with energy cells, and literally every station in the Argon NW block were starving. I was making +50% profit every trade run, and with the massive cargo hold of the Drake, I figure I must have earned about 15 mil in total in about 8 hours (IG) of play.

The other really nice thing is once your trade rank goes up, you can pick up transport missions that pay into the millions. I pulled 3 of those, paying over 3 million in total. Having a jump drive and a docking computer by default makes running these missions a breeze, even when you don't think you have enough time.

Once the cash really started flowing in I started building stations like CRAZY. I had initially set up camp in Unknown Sector Beta (the one beside legends home), and by the time I claimed my second sector, I had dropped 2 silicon mines, 2 ore mines, Cattle ranch, cahoona bakery, crystal fab, scruffin farm, solar plant, and a research station.

I feel I wasted a lot of time on this start at first. About a day (IG) went by before I realized transport missions are the best route for this start. I didn't deploy a sat network, since I don't really have a way of transporting ships, and I don't have time to loot. Buying advanced sats are too expensive to be worth deploying a network of them. This next round, I will still take the same start, but I'm only going to do a handful of combat missions just to get the energy cells necessary to explore and unlock the NW Argon block. I figure by the end of the first day, I will have 2 full sectors of factories. I'm shooting for a complete closed loop.

This start is very fun, both the starts (Quickstart and From Scratch) have their merits. I feel From Scratch is a better way of making/keeping money flowing. Quickstart is good for having an early sat network (granted you relocate them out of the pipe), and a sanctuary ready to go with a handful of resources. Quickstart also has a lot more lucky drops where you can pick up thousands of units of a nice item to sell.

After the first 24 hours (IG) there was no OCV invasion. There was no mail saying they would invade. At empire threat 3, still no invasion. All I got were random Xenon patrols coming up from their nearby sector. Is this a bug or does it take 24 hours longer for OCV to notice me? I'm nearly 2 days in and still no invasion notice. The other races don't hate me either. At nearly 2 days IG, no rep drop, no OCV invasion (yet).

Also I think the maintenance thing is a nice touch, but it should be scalar with your fight and/or trade rank(s). Starting with an M4 and a freighter should not cost me $65K every hour.

This mod is really awesome though. Between LU and this, I just can't get over how alive the game world feels now. It's not static anymore. A lot of oopsies can be made which essentially gets the galaxy wrecked by your foes. There is a bit of constant pressure there to be super organised and make proper business decisions, or your empire will fold. I was looking at my sanctuary last night thinking wow, I have nearly 10 stations deployed, the whole works is humming along nicely. I am able to do upkeep and sell of some of the raw products (ore, silicon, scruffin) for good money. Actually owning a proper empire, and having a reason to use it, is something that has never been seen in any space sim.. EVER. I love it, and keep up the good work dude!

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Joubarbe





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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 21:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Thanks.

OCV timer (~24 hours) starts when you reach threat level 2. Can you provide a savegame, so that I can check that this timer kicked in? ("kicked in"?)

EDIT: I did "From Scratch" without a Drake. Not being able to do something doesn't mean that others can't do it. Don't trust Disney.


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Last edited by Joubarbe on Wed, 6. Dec 17, 21:15; edited 1 time in total
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Aven Valkyr





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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 21:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I stand corrected. Apparently the starting freighter is random and 9 times out of 10 you will get a vulture. Keep re-starting the From Scratch start until you get a drake. You literally cannot do this start without the Drake. Between maintenance costs and everything else added up, you will sink. Only the huge hold of the Drake makes building an energy cell empire worth while. Otherwise you are going to be struggling (with 5x LESS cargo space), and you will most likely sink in your first 12 hours of play Sad

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Aven Valkyr





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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 21:27    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

https://we.tl/pRnxMb9jRc

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VincentTH



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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 22:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Aven Valkyr wrote:
I stand corrected. Apparently the starting freighter is random and 9 times out of 10 you will get a vulture. Keep re-starting the From Scratch start until you get a drake. You literally cannot do this start without the Drake. Between maintenance costs and everything else added up, you will sink. Only the huge hold of the Drake makes building an energy cell empire worth while. Otherwise you are going to be struggling (with 5x LESS cargo space), and you will most likely sink in your first 12 hours of play Sad


I disagree about you can't start without a Drake.
IMHO, if you use the metric of "Best TS" = CargoHaul X Speed, the the Vulture Prototype is the best TS for Dock Agents Supply/Gather, while the Snotra with its extra shield and strong guns is best for DA Buy. The Drake comes in second, IMHO. The rationale being, Supply/Gather DA's don't get attacked often, while the Buy/Sell variants do. For DA selling, I just want a fast ship (Caiman Advance or the Mistral), because volume does not come into play.

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VincentTH



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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 22:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Joubarbe wrote:

@VincentTH: can you tell a bit more about you giving up? The first OCV wave can be hard to fight, and I'm interested in why you failed. Having a sector destroyed by the OCV is not the end of the world though. You lose a threat, so you can do better without too much frustration... (I guess... because I never lost a sector to the OCV... but I know the mod)


I lost a good sector to the OCV (12 slots and good population).

I had the Miner start, and I spend a good 12+ hour during the first day trying to set up station building material. My threat level was 3 (2 sectors, 2nd day) when the OCV attacks, but I have 3 small OWPs set up. The problem is that they are not fully armed because I can't buy Cluster Flak Array, (not enough Argon rep, and maintenance cost eats up my earnings), but have to build them myself. A Small OWP with 4x CFA is dead meat against 2 PX, and they sent 5 of them.

Here is what I would like to have:

1. Ability to build LTs. LTs build very slowly, so the player can't really have hundreds of them like they used to. The LTs would help disable the power of the PX so that the player can have a chance. In the early days, I expect the player to buy LTs, because building them have overhead.

2. I would like to be able to group OWPs closer together, especially the small ones, in order to concentrate fire. Currently the auto-placement /collision avoidance codes prevent that from happening, and OWPs have to fight alone against a pack of PX!!!!

I replay because I learned a few things about the failure:

- Maintenance cost is high, so I really have to recycle ships that I don't use.
- Buid CFA and PPC early. Problem is the cost of concurrent build slow down the build. I had 2 sectors, so I build PPC in one, and CFA in the other, but then I also need to build shield and OWPs!!!!!
- I manage to board 2 M6s, a Morigu and a Springblossom, and I stay close to an OWP in order to get help, but neither can match the fire power of the PX Sad.

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Joubarbe





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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 23:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I love reading Failure Reports Smile


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Aven Valkyr





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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 23:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Vincent: In my playthrough, the drake has a max potential of 1.2 GJ of shields, 12 medium gun slots, a good weapon battery, 101 m/s (far better than most vultures), and 24K m3 of space. I'm sorry but this thing wrecks pretty much everything else out there. The only thing I could use is maybe an extra 20 m/s of speed that come with the really fast transports. But what's an extra 20 m/s when you literally have 1.5x the cargo hold of those other ones. I think if these transports are going to be randomized, and you can just go ahead and restart till you get the ship you want, then the Drake should just be included as the default, every time. If people really want to start from the *very* bottom then give them a start where you only get an M5 with a standard Vulture (50 m/s and 5K hold).

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Joubarbe





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PostPosted: Wed, 6. Dec 17, 23:20    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I thought of that. And I disagree. I'm a RimWorld player, and I always accept whatever team the game throws at me. I have to accept the handicaps, and adapt accordingly. Of course Mayhem is not that deep, but I'm going towards that philosophy.


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VincentTH



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PostPosted: Thu, 7. Dec 17, 02:43    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Aven Valkyr wrote:
@Vincent: In my playthrough, the drake has a max potential of 1.2 GJ of shields, 12 medium gun slots, a good weapon battery, 101 m/s (far better than most vultures), and 24K m3 of space. I'm sorry but this thing wrecks pretty much everything else out there. The only thing I could use is maybe an extra 20 m/s of speed that come with the really fast transports. But what's an extra 20 m/s when you literally have 1.5x the cargo hold of those other ones. I think if these transports are going to be randomized, and you can just go ahead and restart till you get the ship you want, then the Drake should just be included as the default, every time. If people really want to start from the *very* bottom then give them a start where you only get an M5 with a standard Vulture (50 m/s and 5K hold).


For me, I use a different criterium based on the stats:

Effectiveness of TS = max_speed X cargo

Drake: max speed: 101.6 Cargo: 23,950 Eff=2,433,320
Snotra: speed: 134.9 cargo: 19,500 Eff=2,630,550

My conclusion?
Given the same task, the Snotra will be able to move more cargo than the Drake, and that not taking into account that the early bird gets the food, the slower ship got nada.

But I don't reload at the start to get the Drake. If I get either the Vulture Advance or the Vulture Prototype, I would be happy. I am more interested in the # of slots and the population/research rate of the nearby unknown/vacant sectors. I restrict myself to only 2 sectors until the first wave of OCV attack, so I choose them carefully.

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Jonzac



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PostPosted: Thu, 7. Dec 17, 03:37    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Well since you like reports,

Miner start with a Vulture Hauler as my TS. Immediately move to Unknown Beta and claim it. I sat a mined for a few cycles myself until the TS showed up and the Hauler pick up so Nostrop Oil.

Damn I can’t upgrade it because I didn’t pick ship hanger...but I can make lasers shields and got a free research station. Well that was dumb.

What’s not dumb? Ejecting out of your miner and spacesuiting it to Legends Home on my way to Alanda Hill. Damn that’s taking too long. Call in the TS. Oh look it’s top speed of 50 is the same as my suit. Sigh.

Well head over there to drop a satellite so I can see bailed ships and such...nav sats aren’t used by the satellite monitoring script...just peachy.

Crap people hungry.

WOW! White mineral worth 8 million. Things are looking up. Maybe if I get my threat level to two then I can add more perks to my sanctuary...claim the sector north of me....nope. Well at least I can give it a ships hanger.

Build a miner. Shields are in the first sanctuary. Ok head on out.

Message. Your ship is dead. Another message saying hey someone spying on us and looking for miners. Unfortunately to late.

Bring in the adv barracuda at 8% hull and kill th three M5s. Things looking up.


Damn I’m having a blast

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Sirrobert





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PostPosted: Thu, 7. Dec 17, 11:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

VincentTH wrote:
2. I would like to be able to group OWPs closer together, especially the small ones, in order to concentrate fire. Currently the auto-placement /collision avoidance codes prevent that from happening, and OWPs have to fight alone against a pack of PX!!!!


Why do you have your OWP fight alone? Send in your fleet!

Joubarbe wrote:
OCV timer (~24 hours) starts when you reach threat level 2. Can you provide a savegame, so that I can check that this timer kicked in? ("kicked in"?)


O neat. I was already starting to panic as the 24 hour marker was coming up. Guess I have a few more hours to assemble my fighting force. I reckon a few TM full of fighters should do the trick, based on me reading here that lvl3 means 5 PX.


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Hector0x





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PostPosted: Thu, 7. Dec 17, 12:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Aven Valkyr wrote:
Also I think the maintenance thing is a nice touch, but it should be scalar with your fight and/or trade rank(s). Starting with an M4 and a freighter should not cost me $65K every hour.


If you roll a TS+ your maintenance will be like 4 times higher because it scales according to ship value. I'm not sure if your Drake was the best thing there.

@Joubarbe: the reduced dock storage didn't do much about the jackpot loot from mining outposts. After 15h i already have 325mil in my account plus a sanctuary full of crystals from two station drops. The problem is that Litcube implemented only Plutarch (Argon) and NMMC (Teladi) stations. These stations don't change ownership to the sector controlling race. So if there are wars in Mayhem the Boron vanilla fleets are destroying Plutarch and Split/Paranid ships destroy NMMC in their OWN sectors. Maybe you could change it so mining outposts are handled like equipment docks and trading stations (changing race to sector owner)

Version 2.2 leaves a very polished impression, though. Great job! I like the details (blueprint scanner ui)


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VincentTH



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PostPosted: Thu, 7. Dec 17, 20:57    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sirrobert wrote:
VincentTH wrote:
2. I would like to be able to group OWPs closer together, especially the small ones, in order to concentrate fire. Currently the auto-placement /collision avoidance codes prevent that from happening, and OWPs have to fight alone against a pack of PX!!!!


Why do you have your OWP fight alone? Send in your fleet!



My fleet is composed of a dozen M3, but the PXs almost one-shot them, one at a time!!!!

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Sirrobert





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PostPosted: Thu, 7. Dec 17, 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

VincentTH wrote:
Sirrobert wrote:
VincentTH wrote:
2. I would like to be able to group OWPs closer together, especially the small ones, in order to concentrate fire. Currently the auto-placement /collision avoidance codes prevent that from happening, and OWPs have to fight alone against a pack of PX!!!!


Why do you have your OWP fight alone? Send in your fleet!



My fleet is composed of a dozen M3, but the PXs almost one-shot them, one at a time!!!!


Odd. I have annihilated OCV destroyers with fighter clouds, I can't see a few corvettes standing much of a chance.
What fighters are you using? And more importantly, how much damage are they doing in return?


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