nvidium mining in enduring light

[mistercat]

I'm mining nvidium in enduring light and was wondering how it really worked. Currently I have 2 freighters picking up nvidium that I created with a mining laser and then HEPTs to split up the smaller rocks. How many rocks do I actually need to split up for them to OOS collect it for a while and is there an easy way to tell if a rock is in collectible form?

[RAVEN.myst]

Once the rocks are below "station size" (ie. asteroids that you can build a mine on), they can be collected OoS - to make sure, all the OoS mining TSs need to have is any laser, even just a cheap IRE or a PAC (no need to equip them all with mining lasers.) They will then break up the rocks to the required size.

In X3TC, a few times I built mining fleets using CLS2, to mine ore and silicon. Here's how it worked:

- I located some ore or silicon, whichever I was after, making sure there were no other minerals in the vicinity (didn't want them mixing and complicating matters.)
- I broke some down a bit, and placed an advanced satellite to mark my claim.
- I started with 4 mining freighters (this number grows as the CLS2 pilot levels up and learns to handle more stops.) Since they will be mining and their loads constantly collected from them, they need no cargo upgrades (this is one of the very very few occasions on which I don't sully upgrade freighter cargo holds.)
- First they are ordered to move to position of the claim marker satellite. Once there, they are set to "gather rocks".
- A freighter running CLS2 and with full cargobay upgrades and a transporter device (very important!) is given a route to collect ("load") ore/silicon (whichever) from the mining ships. I call this ship the mine-cart.
- Another CLS2 ship collects from the mine-cart and delivers to an ore mine or trading station (such as the Xenon Gate Hub) for distribution. This could also be a TL-class transport.
- If an operation grows large enough, it may require additional "mine-carts" and even additional distribution tiers - but this is only really relevant in X3TC, as explained below.

In X3TC, because the rocks persist in perpetuity, this little fleet (which can be grown as the mine-cart's CLS pilot level increases) stays put in one place. In X3AP it becomes mobile, as the rocks are consumed - this means that certain adjustments have to be made. For starters, a local depot is a good idea, as the "mine-cart" no longer stays in one place but ends up making longer trips as the mining ships scatter over a sector. Secondly, growing the fleet is more complicated, as these longer trips complicate matters the more miners there are, so it's generally best not to over-grow the operation, but rather to set up a separate one in a different location, if desired.

IMPORTANT: once you set up some automated mining of this sort (or any sort, really), it's best to limit one's in-sector presence, as this will eventually result in mining accidents (collisions between miners and rocks.) Full shielding will usually mitigate the damage, but occasionally you may lose or at least severely damage a ship by causing in-sector rendering.

I used the above method for nividium exactly ONCE, and to extremely good effect - so much so that it made me so rich so rapidly that it quickly ruined my enjoyment of the game. I quit, and started my next playthrough. You have been warned!


PS: Thanks for raising the question, as methinks I may implement a mining fleet in my current or an upcoming X3AP game, just for the sake of doing something different (I haven't used this system much since X3AP became my main flavour, due to its limitations in the rebalance, but I'm in fact quite keen, these days, to try things in more challenging [ergo: limited] contexts.) So, your question served as reminder and inspiration.

[RainerPrem]

Once the rocks are below "station size" (ie. asteroids that you can build a mine on), they can be collected OoS - to make sure, all the OoS mining TSs need to have is any laser, even just a cheap IRE or a PAC (no need to equip them all with mining lasers.) They will then break up the rocks to the required size.

Hi,

Oh, sh... I never knew that. So I had to jump in from time to time and split more medium sized rocks into smaller ones.

I used the above method for nividium exactly ONCE, and to extremely good effect - so much so that it made me so rich so rapidly that it quickly ruined my enjoyment of the game. I quit, and started my next playthrough. You have been warned!

Let's say as long as the Nividium is only used for plot missions and additionally sold in small amounts from the Hub, I don't see a massive income from it. Only the "selling with a freighter" and "stock exchange" exploits are sketchy IMHO.

cu
Rainer

[RAVEN.myst]

I used the above method for nividium exactly ONCE, and to extremely good effect - so much so that it made me so rich so rapidly that it quickly ruined my enjoyment of the game. I quit, and started my next playthrough. You have been warned!

Let's say as long as the Nividium is only used for plot missions and additionally sold in small amounts from the Hub, I don't see a massive income from it. Only the "selling with a freighter" and "stock exchange" exploits are sketchy IMHO.

Agreed. Having it as a modest income is not only OK, in my opinion, but in fact desirable - after all, it IS an in-game mineral resource, ostensibly a rare and highly valuable one at that, so it's really a pity that it mostly has such a low profile.

For selling via the Hub, though, I expect the mining rate of a single freighter will likely exceed the consumption rate of NMMC and PMC HQs - thanks, you've given me something to test! (And, as it happens, my current game is in a perfect state to incorporate this right now...)

[RAVEN.myst]

OK, correction to an earlier post: while executing a "Collect rocks in sector" command, the mining ship will NOT use its own lasers to break down rocks - it's one of the mining commands that does this (I forget which, as I don't use them myself, as they are non-recursive except "Mine and trade minerals", which is not configurable/controllable enough for my tastes.)

Well, a team consisting of a single mining ship and a single CLS2 hauler (back to my Hub) is more than handling my Nividium mining operation in

Spoiler

Show

Distant Clouds.

There are more customers than I expected, given that no longer is the stuff used as a secondary resource at any factories (I forget how far back that was true - X2? X3R? As recent as X3TC, perhaps? I will have to check, at some point...) - I just wish the encyclopaedia entry for nividium actually listed the docks that trade it, as it does for other wares (I'll use a Logistician with 'generate waypoints' to get a complete list - perhaps I'll export the stuff in this manner and block my CAGs from bothering, as the consumption rate is even lower than I expected...)

[Timsup2nothin]

For selling via the Hub, though, I expect the mining rate of a single freighter will likely exceed the consumption rate of NMMC and PMC HQs - thanks, you've given me something to test! (And, as it happens, my current game is in a perfect state to incorporate this right now...)

The key to selling Niv from a dock is to let NPCs buy it. Price it a bit below average and NPC buyers will say "I can buy from him and sell to NMMC" as long as there is demand at NMMC. Make sure that the path from your HUB to NMMC goes through a Xenon sector and voila, you have a steady stream of Nividium transporters buying from you and...well...disposing of it.

Since I don't like having NPCs cluttering up my hub I use a dedicated EqD for this purpose.

[RAVEN.myst]

For selling via the Hub, though, I expect the mining rate of a single freighter will likely exceed the consumption rate of NMMC and PMC HQs - thanks, you've given me something to test! (And, as it happens, my current game is in a perfect state to incorporate this right now...)

The key to selling Niv from a dock is to let NPCs buy it. Price it a bit below average and NPC buyers will say "I can buy from him and sell to NMMC" as long as there is demand at NMMC. Make sure that the path from your HUB to NMMC goes through a Xenon sector and voila, you have a steady stream of Nividium transporters buying from you and...well...disposing of it.

Since I don't like having NPCs cluttering up my hub I use a dedicated EqD for this purpose.

Yes, I also don't allow aliens to dock at my facilities, by default - useless parking attendants, as well as messing with my pricing (CAGs' aggressive price-seeking, in both directions, gets wasted.) However, since I will have a spare CorpHQ soon, I reckon I'll use it as a trade hub (or set up a trading station, perhaps, if I decide to do that first - and I like how Teladi trade stations look, the race I'm playing in this game...) for Nividium and Weed (once I crank up production - at the moment, the existing docks and factories are absorbing it all), and perhaps I'll also start making rotgut too, which can also be sold at this emporium of exotic commodities... Hmmm, many inspirations flying around on this thread today - so, thank you, too!

For the moment, though, (the next, oh... five minutes? But seriously, a few hours more...) I'll continue to handle it in the "conventional" manner, as there are a few pirate stations (including anarchy ports, for instance) that accept the stuff, and I am doing my best to foster relations with them through trade (my latest self-restriction kink is "no generic missions", so at least for now, no station building to build up my notoriety...)

[mistercat]

OK, correction to an earlier post: while executing a "Collect rocks in sector" command, the mining ship will NOT use its own lasers to break down rocks - it's one of the mining commands that does this (I forget which, as I don't use them myself, as they are non-recursive except "Mine and trade minerals", which is not configurable/controllable enough for my tastes.)

Well, a team consisting of a single mining ship and a single CLS2 hauler (back to my Hub) is more than handling my Nividium mining operation in

Spoiler

Show

Distant Clouds.

There are more customers than I expected, given that no longer is the stuff used as a secondary resource at any factories (I forget how far back that was true - X2? X3R? As recent as X3TC, perhaps? I will have to check, at some point...) - I just wish the encyclopaedia entry for nividium actually listed the docks that trade it, as it does for other wares (I'll use a Logistician with 'generate waypoints' to get a complete list - perhaps I'll export the stuff in this manner and block my CAGs from bothering, as the consumption rate is even lower than I expected...)

I started by blowing up the "station" size asteroid and then tried collecting rocks OOS to no effect. I did indeed have to blow up the grey "rocks" into the brown "rocks" before my OOS fleets started to collect them.

You're saying you figured out a way to skip the grey-to-brown IS blowing up step? I'd like to hear how. I don't want to do anymore than blow up the station-size asteroid.

[Alan Phipps]

@ mistercat: 'Collect minerals' will allow your miners with *any* damage laser to automatically break up larger rocks in mining range into collectables - but only of the mineral you specify in advance - which rules out Nividium. 'Collect rocks' will only collect rocks that are already of collectable size of any mineral type in mining range. No AI mining command will break a full station-size asteroid.

In X3TC any broken sub-asteroids and rock clusters that are *fully* mined will respawn nearby and give you effectively infinite mining resources in one spot. Not in X3AP though.

[Timsup2nothin]

So, here's a question that I'm not ready to answer by experimentation right now...

If I put a mining ship in there running "mine ore," will it only break up ore rocks and collect ore, or will it break up rocks and only collect the ore? That is a minor difference that may require careful reading, but it is a difference with major consequences. If the ore mining ship breaks up all of the rocks then another ship running "collect rocks" can work alongside it collecting nividium and such, but if it is selective about the rocks it breaks up then that won't work.

[jlehtone]

If I put a mining ship in there running "mine ore," will it only break up ore rocks and collect ore

Apparently.

It goes approximately:

Code: Select all

1. Gimme a list of nearby debris of type Ore
2. While list has something
      If there are collectibles
      Then collect some
      Else shoot at the debris a bit

It would be quite ineffective to shoot at Nividium/Ore/Ice rocks, for they will never ever yield collectible Wafers.


X3R Bonuspack had a separate "Attack rocks" command for fighters.

[RAVEN.myst]

@Timsup2nothin: Although this doesn't answer your question (already taken care of by jlehtone, apparently), the following may be of interest to you, in light of your "CLS2 habit" However, it's highly likely you know this already...

The "Mine minerals" command, as mentioned previously, is non-repeating - the ship will go out, mine the designated mineral (any other than nividium, sigh...), and return to the designated station once the specified limit is reached - that last bit is key, though: by using CLS2 to keep removing the mineral from the hold, it is possible to keep the ship from reaching its goal, and thus keep it going more or less indefinitely (I say "more or less" because if production exceeds demand/consumption and the miner's hold fills up, it will complete its command.)

[Timsup2nothin]

Thanks Raven...I knew that part. There's a similar application I've used for emptying my "janitor ships" that are permanently assigned with "collect wares in sector" commands.

And thanks Jlehtone, though I wish that answer had been different.

[mistercat]

Looks like they nerfed the Nvidium. My 2 ships collected a pitiful 140 Nvidium over a few game hours. Hardly worth the efforts.

[Timsup2nothin]

Looks like they nerfed the Nvidium. My 2 ships collected a pitiful 140 Nvidium over a few game hours. Hardly worth the efforts.

In AP I have found that remote collecting rocks is pretty inefficient since the rocks don't respawn and the ship spends more time wandering than collecting. An unfocused jump in a heavily shielded TL, blowing up a Niv 'roid, and then grinding slowly through the rubble, on the other hand, is still useful and effective.

[jlehtone]

... they are non-recursive except "Mine and trade minerals", which is not configurable/controllable enough for my tastes.

Configuration options of Lucike's Pilot Union really spoil the competitor's, don't they?

I was about to interview the miner-traders. Thanks to Tim's question I got into it.

The Mine and Trade Minerals

• operates on the sector, where you start it
• sees debris with 200km (?) radius
• will move one jump, if mined sectors has nothing to mine
• will not move to unexplored sectors
• will collect all three: Ice, Ore and Wafers
• will sell within 6 jumps
• requires at least average price
• probably charges 100cr per hour as salary

Curiously, the command could run on both player and NPC ships. NPC traders would be willing to sell at below average price. I presume that no vanilla game spawns NPC Mine and Trade ships.

[RAVEN.myst]

I presume that no vanilla game spawns NPC Mine and Trade ships.

Sadly, none that I've ever seen - it WOULD be rather nice, for flavour/atmosphere, as competitors, and as a *cough* "resource" for some...

[Snafu_X3]

FWIW (can't remember if this has been already mentioned), in vanilla TC+BP 'collect rocks' does just that: it collects rocks of ore size (ie smallest). 'Mine & trade' or similar uses guns to break up non station-sized rocks until they're smallest (ie collectable) size. A mining laser is only necessary to break up 'station-sized' 'roids

FWIW one of these commands (I forget which one) doesn't use a gun while IS; it breaks 'roids apart with the ship's shields! Hence the need to fully equip shields on those miners..

[Alan Phipps]

"A mining laser is only necessary to break up 'station-sized' 'roids" ... and only by the actual player who can alternatively use a high-yield missile. AI-controlled ships will not intentionally break station-size asteroids whatever weapons they have and whatever commands they are given.

I think the AI ships IS ram-mining tactic is just a symptom of their pathing and collision-avoidance difficulties.

I believe that amother reason to give miners decent shields is that, in at least one of the X games, the miners take a small amount of scripted-in simulated collision/blast damage as part of their collecting/mining even when OOS.

[RAVEN.myst]

I think the AI ships IS ram-mining tactic is just a symptom of their pathing and collision-avoidance difficulties.

I'm inclined to agree - often (read: "almost without fail") if I entered a sector in which I had a sizable mining fleet, I'd have damage and/or casualties.

I believe that amother reason to give miners decent shields is that, in at least one of the X games, the miners take a small amount of scripted-in simulated collision/blast damage as part of their collecting/mining even when OOS.

Hmmm, this rings a bell - I do vaguely seem to remember being puzzled by OoS damage to mining ships at some point (it was quite long ago, I don't remember which title it was in - I haven't used mining fleets since I switched primarily to X3AP, only the one time to test how much their usability had changed.)