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X3TC Help with creating a mobile Warehouse? Trying with cag, cls and failing
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Colonel Kassad





Joined: 06 Nov 2002



PostPosted: Tue, 17. Oct 17, 01:36    Post subject: X3TC Help with creating a mobile Warehouse? Trying with cag, cls and failing Reply with quote Print

Hi all! I have been playing for weeks now and found a lot of online resources, but i haven't found a way to do something i really want. I hope i am missing something and someone can help me Wink

Situation:
My money comes from my fleet of Universal Traders. I have no wish to create my own resources and production stations.

I have an Elephant (TL) which is my mobile storage of equipment, shields and weapons and energy (wares). Whenever i use some of its inventory to equip something or load some of its inventory to another ship, i want other TS ships to go out and buy the products / resources as cheap as possible and keep the TL stocked.

So, in essence i want a CAG system which has a TL as its homebase, instead of a station.

Problems i run into are:

1) A CAG can only be assigned to a station, equipment dock, or trade station. Not to my TL.

2) I can buy an Equipment Dock and assign CAG's, but it can only hold a very small number of each ware / equipment.

3) The Support Command -Resupply Ship- only works for 1 product at a time per ship. And i get the idea the supllying TS will try and top off every single ship which has the TL as homebase, instead of only the TL.

4) I could make a CLS fly around to all the NPC stations with the products i want and ending his tour with topping off the TL. But it would not be smart about the buying, and would wait when a station doesn't have enough of the needed ware.

I hope someone has a brilliant idea. I really want a huge (mobile) warehouse, a central nexus of storage and distribution. I know i will get a Player HQ later on, but first i have to get that far Wink

Regards, Kassad

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 17. Oct 17, 01:57    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do here, because this seems pretty simple.

First off, for each ware that you want in your 'warehouse' you need to answer four questions:

What are you willing to pay? [buyprice]

What price would you sell the stuff for? [sellprice]

How much are you willing to stock? [maxstock]

How much do you always want to have on hand? [minstock]

So, with answers in hand, take a freighter with a CLS2 Logistician and a transporter device and set up:

Code:
Warehouse, reload jump fuel
Load WareX, max cargo
Unload WareX, up to [minstock]

Generate waypoints, center and range enough to cover your comfortable working area, buy WareX, minimum price up to [maxstock]-[minstock]

Generate again using price halfway between minimum and [buyprice].

Generate again using [buyprice].

Warehouse, Unload WareX, max cargo.


Repeat process for as many wares as you want on a single freighter, and use as many freighters as you need to cover all the wares you want to stock. You can set up the same freighter or a different freighter to make separate sales runs for the same ware. The coding is similar, but if you need help with the exact details just ask.


_________________
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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Colonel Kassad





Joined: 06 Nov 2002



PostPosted: Tue, 17. Oct 17, 14:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hello Timsup2nothin,

Thanks for your reply. The solution you suggest sounds less then ideal in practice (but maybe it's the only option). By the way, the warehouse will just be used for collecting and stocking, not selling.

If i understand you correctly, to keep my TL always stocked with for example 10 HEPT and 20 PAC, i would instruct a CLS to

1) visit several stations who sell these items, and at each station
2) if it has the ware at a certain price, buy up to a certain cargo limit,
3) and lastly return to the TL and unload to a certain amount,
4) refuel and go out again.

But isn't this very inefficiënt?

I can set a load border on the cargo space of the CLS, but not a 'unload into TL to a TL max of **, right? So the TL will just fill up.

And if the CLS buys the max HEPT needed at it's first stop, won't it just continue visiting al the other designated HEPT sellers waypoints? *I found out it won't*

It sounds like a lot of work to create these instructions for a lot of wares, especially when the TL is moving through the Universe and other sectors and other stations become available or more traveltime efficiënt. *i found the generate buyers options through your guide*

If a CLS visits a station and the price is not right, will it wait for the right price or fly on?

Am i missing some options or how things work? Thanks again for your help

*EDIT1
I now think you were using the min and max loading and selling as a way to keep a constant in the warehouse itself, correct?

*EDIT2
I noticed you had a guide in your sig so i am reading it. Damn. Quite a few things i did not learn from other guides, thanks! I wasn't aware a CLS skips waypoints like that. And now i understand why you added the same npc seller waypoints three times, with different pricing.

Still, could you maybe describe in a bit more detail the needed CLS instructions?

And i just found out generate waypoints also works for buying, cool!

Example:

TL (warehouse)
TS (CLS freighter)
NPC HEPT seller A
NPC HEPT seller B
NPC PAC seller C
NPC PAC seller D
NPC HEPT buyer Y
NPC PAC buyer Z

TL is supposed to keep a storage of 200 HEPT and 100 PAC. A CLS is flying around. At a certain moment and for some reason i extract 150 HEPT and 50 PAC from the TL with some other ship. What are the exact instructions the CLS needs to have so the TL will be topped of again at 200 HEPT and 100 PAC?


Kassad

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PabloRSA





Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 613 on topic

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PostPosted: Tue, 17. Oct 17, 18:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

try apricots handbook.
http://apricotmappingservice.com/x3handbook.html

Go to page 141 of v5 of the handbook with bookmarks.
Part 3 > Giskard's X3 Trading Networks.

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Colonel Kassad





Joined: 06 Nov 2002



PostPosted: Tue, 17. Oct 17, 19:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hey PlaboRSA,

Thanks for the link! That's a lot of X3 info Smile Interesting idea with the trading stations supply line, although it's not what i was looking for. But maybe i can use it further down the line.

Regards, Kassad

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jlehtone



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Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 16864 on topic
Location: GalNet BBS
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PostPosted: Tue, 17. Oct 17, 19:48    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Xenon Hub and PHQ are Docks too. In X3TC it requires "just a couple items" to get them though.


One Equipment Dock / Trading Station. Enough CAG shoppers to fill her with cheap stuff. Small, fast ships. The UT's could have the Dock as home, funding all the purchases with their massive profitsss.

CLS delivery from Dock to TL. Probably CLS2, for CLS1 -- while "need-based" -- may not understand the needs of your TL. (Dockware Manager can set limits to PHQ and to there CLS1 delivers beautifully.)


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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Wed, 18. Oct 17, 00:23    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Colonel Kassad wrote:
Hello Timsup2nothin,

Thanks for your reply. The solution you suggest sounds less then ideal in practice (but maybe it's the only option). By the way, the warehouse will just be used for collecting and stocking, not selling.

If i understand you correctly, to keep my TL always stocked with for example 10 HEPT and 20 PAC, i would instruct a CLS to

1) visit several stations who sell these items, and at each station
2) if it has the ware at a certain price, buy up to a certain cargo limit,
3) and lastly return to the TL and unload to a certain amount,
4) refuel and go out again.

But isn't this very inefficiënt?


This is a sort of general question...and "inefficient" is a comparative. It may very well be the ONLY way to accomplish what you want, which would technically make it the MOST efficient way to do it. Smile

Colonel Kassad wrote:
I can set a load border on the cargo space of the CLS, but not a 'unload into TL to a TL max of **, right? So the TL will just fill up.


This is incorrect. A "load up to X" (or buy) command sets a limit on the number the CLS ship will take on. An "unload up to" (or sell) command sets a limit on the number the receiver will take.

For example, "load up to 100" at station A followed by "unload up to 1000" at station B will transfer a hundred at a time from A to B until B has a thousand, then the freighter will load another hundred and go on standby...assuming station A has unlimited inventory.

Colonel Kassad wrote:


And if the CLS buys the max HEPT needed at it's first stop, won't it just continue visiting al the other designated HEPT sellers waypoints? *I found out it won't*


You already found out, but yeah, the first step in processing a "load up to" (or buy) command is checking whether it already has them. If it does it will skip to the next waypoint on the list.

Colonel Kassad wrote:

It sounds like a lot of work to create these instructions for a lot of wares, especially when the TL is moving through the Universe and other sectors and other stations become available or more traveltime efficiënt. *i found the generate buyers options through your guide*


With the unlimited waypoints of a Logistician and the generate waypoints function you can bang out some pretty intricate trade routes with relative ease.

Colonel Kassad wrote:


If a CLS visits a station and the price is not right, will it wait for the right price or fly on?


Well, first off if the price wasn't right it wouldn't have gone there. The only way it can visit a station and the price not be right is if someone beat them to the deal. Whether it flies on or not depends on whether it has somewhere else to go, but it will certainly move on to processing the next waypoint. The only way it will "stay there and wait" is if it can process through its entire list without finding anywhere to go, in which case it will check again and either make the buy or continue around again.

Colonel Kassad wrote:


Am i missing some options or how things work? Thanks again for your help

*EDIT1
I now think you were using the min and max loading and selling as a way to keep a constant in the warehouse itself, correct?

*EDIT2
I noticed you had a guide in your sig so i am reading it. Damn. Quite a few things i did not learn from other guides, thanks! I wasn't aware a CLS skips waypoints like that. And now i understand why you added the same npc seller waypoints three times, with different pricing.

Still, could you maybe describe in a bit more detail the needed CLS instructions?

And i just found out generate waypoints also works for buying, cool!

Example:

TL (warehouse)
TS (CLS freighter)
NPC HEPT seller A
NPC HEPT seller B
NPC PAC seller C
NPC PAC seller D
NPC HEPT buyer Y
NPC PAC buyer Z

TL is supposed to keep a storage of 200 HEPT and 100 PAC. A CLS is flying around. At a certain moment and for some reason i extract 150 HEPT and 50 PAC from the TL with some other ship. What are the exact instructions the CLS needs to have so the TL will be topped of again at 200 HEPT and 100 PAC?


Kassad


Okay, the easy solution is for the CLS to:

Code:
TL, reload jump fuel
TL, unload PAC up to 100
TL, unload HEPT up to 200
Seller A, buy HEPT price avg-1, up to 200
Seller B, buy HEPT price avg-1, up to 200
Seller C, buy PAC price avg-1, up to 100
Seller D, buy PAC price avg-1, up to 100


This doesn't do any resale. The CLS will mostly just hang around the TL, but when you take some product from the TL for whatever reason the CLS will hopefully have enough on hand to just restock the TL and then over time whenever it can buy cheap guns it will restock itself to be ready for next time.

Since it will only buy when the price is at or below avg-1 it will actually set off to make the buy as soon as the manufacturer inventory goes over half (unless it is already holding the limit), so the actual price paid will always be a chunk below average. If you think your guy is just loafing around too much you can yank some inventory off the TL and dump it at a dock for average price, knowing that you made a profit.

Experience says that for HEPTs and PACs if you try to buy at really low prices NPC weapons dealers will almost always be buying them before your price is met, and your TL will run dry.


_________________
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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Colonel Kassad





Joined: 06 Nov 2002



PostPosted: Sat, 21. Oct 17, 01:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi Timsup2nothin,

I finally came around to trying it out, and it works like a charm Mr. Green Thanks a lot, this really enhances how i can play.

Just one more question: how to use this to keep a supply of energy cells on the TL?

If i order a CLS to buy Energy cells, it always uses some energy cells on the way back to the TL. So even when the TL is full, and the CLS was full, the CLS notices that the CLS itself has some room now, and goes out again. After it has topped itself of again, it jumps back to the TL, but in doing that it uses some energy cells again, rince and repeat.

Am i correct in thinking this is solved by setting the 'buy up to' amount lower then the total cargo space of the CLS? For example, i use a Hauler with 4370 cargo space. When i let it buy up to 4000 energy cells, does this mean it uses the 370 for its refuel command, and that way the chances are small that a return trip to the TL with bring it's total energy cell count under 4000 (so it won't immediatly go out again)?

Or is there a simpler or smarter solution?

(By the way, I added a 'fly to TL' waypoint, because the CLS waited at a solar plant when the TL and the CLS itself were fully stocked. I prefer it directly at the TL to better refill it.)

Thanks again for your time and energy, i'm going full Battlestar Galactica on X3:TC Wink

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Sat, 21. Oct 17, 02:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

In the settings there is a "minimum transfer on delivery" and a "minimum transfer on pickup." They are set to 5% by default. Try setting them to 80 or so. What they do is keep your ship from "topping off" when it is almost full, and when you set them to 80 it won't go for more until it is pretty close to emptied out. Saves jump fuel.

Also, make sure your refuel point is the TL, or wherever it is that you want the freighter to hang around when it is on standby.


_________________
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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Colonel Kassad





Joined: 06 Nov 2002



PostPosted: Mon, 6. Nov 17, 17:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Timsup2nothin Just a heads up: everything is working as intended, thanks for all the help.

@jlehtone: thanks for the tip, will be a while before i get that far Wink

Regards, Kassad

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Mon, 6. Nov 17, 18:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Colonel Kassad wrote:
@Timsup2nothin Just a heads up: everything is working as intended, thanks for all the help.



You're welcome. Happy trading.


_________________
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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