What ship do you recommend for starting the AP plot?

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jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Tue, 31. Oct 17, 20:20

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Timsup2nothin wrote:I'm pretty sure that 'neutrals,' like say Teladi if you attack an Argon in their space, will still get mad about it. The local border patrol, cops, etc, are going to respond, and your rep with them will take a small hit.
This is correct - while they are "neutral", they will still punish "antisocial" behaviour - I guess it's a matter of treaties. It's only attacks against the racial enemy that are ignored by the local authorities. There is no local reputation loss, however (that I've ever seen, at least) - unless the player engages those local cops, of course.
Oh yes, the Keystone Cops. How could I forget them? :roll:



[edit]
Xenon ships, below average speed, above average hull, and many NPC M and L have Pulse Beam Emitters that hardly miss and strip shields quickly.
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Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 02:01

Timsup2nothin wrote:
jlehtone wrote: If you kill an enemy of the sector, the natives love you more.
If you kill a friend of the sector, you will lose reputation.
The neutrals simply ignore your actions.
I need to investigate this, but...

I'm pretty sure that 'neutrals,' like say Teladi if you attack an Argon in their space, will still get mad about it. The local border patrol, cops, etc, are going to respond, and your rep with them will take a small hit.

I'll verify this and update, but I'm almost sure this is true.
The cops and military will get mad, turn red and try to attack you. However, if you run away from them by leaving the sector, it's no harm, no foul. They will forget your transgression and as long as you didn't fight them, you lose no Teladi rep. By the same token, you don't get rep gains for killing pirates in their sectors. Teladi are the 'true neutrals' of the X Universe.
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 03:21

I left out the Xenon because they require capturing, but all true. PBE's are nightmares. I had one hit me while doing maximum speed in a Pirate Kestrel (1542m/s) and strip all the shields and 2% off my hull.

Pirate ships tend to be slightly better in some aspects than those they're based on, and much worse in others. On the other hand, Pirate versions have awesome paintjobs, so I like the trade off.

Last Faction I forgot is the Yaki. Their designs are an off-shoot of the Paranid and have the same lower defense in exchange for lots of firepower and speed that the Paranid have. They do take it to more of an extreme, trading more shields for even more speed.
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RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 05:10

Nanook wrote: By the same token, you don't get rep gains for killing pirates in their sectors. Teladi are the 'true neutrals' of the X Universe.
I need to check this, as Teladi *will* pay bounty (if the player is licensed) for pirate kills in their space (which means they at least officially approve, and so a reputation improvement is also implied - at least, "On behalf of Chairman CEO, the Teladi Company are grateful" seems to imply so...), so I'm not sure about the reputation thing - it may have been that way in earlier titles and been changed more recently, perhaps, for all I know. (Hmmm, time to do set a bookmark point in time in my current game and go collect eyepatches in Teladiania - back soon... :D )

[EDIT]
@Nanook: well, as near as I can tell, you appear to be correct - I painted a number of eye-patches on my Kha'ak Corvette's nose-pyramid (and adopted one pirate's parrot, too - he left it on his ship when he bailed) and didn't get any movement on my Teladi rep (at least, none visible - for all I know, I may have improved my rep by less than a percentile.) My Teladi rep in this game is currently Shareholder +97% (so it's moderately high - I don't know how much enemy materiel I need to dust to make it move visibly), and most of the enemies were Duke's freighters (my universe has gotten depressingly peaceful, despite no efforts to that effect on my part!), so they may or may not count, and if they do it's probably for little (the bounty on them is the same as for a M5) - hence, I don't consider this conclusive, so will continue to hunt bandits...

Interestingly, on several occasions I was beaten to kills on pirate ships (both regular pirates and Duke's) by Teladi law enforcement - so (along with the abovementioned bounty and "gratitude"), they're not quite as neutral as they claim to be, at least officially (I guess Foundation Guild membership carries certain responsibilities...)
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Post by Bill Huntington » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 07:13

JohnnyR, you're getting exposed to lot. It might take some time to absorb it all. We call it a 'steep learning curve'.

I'll warn you about one thing now. It's a big mistake to attack the pirates or Yaki until later in the game; and maybe ever. Okay, the game or a situation forces you sometimes. But high pirate rep is a good thing. Do missions for them to keep it high. A bad pirate rep could mean they attack your traders and stations everywhere in the AP universe.

I usually attack one race at the beginning of the game. The Paranid are easy to dislike. It's even better that their ships have high value compared to other races. Here's the point I want to make. If you have high rep with them, you can cap and board their ships for a small rep loss. Then do a mission or two to repair the rep. At lower rep you can lose a whole level or more. You won't have that at first. But it's a worthwhile goal.

To learn combat you might attack pirates or anyone for a while. Then just start a new game with what you've learned.

One nice little thing that might help. Save your current game on Game Save #10. Then you can restart there anytime. There's a number of advantages to this, like your own personal encyclopedia you can refer to about things you've learned. Keep the Game Save from now on, only replacing it when the next game offers something more.
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jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 19:41

Triaxx2 wrote:I left out the Xenon because they require capturing, but all true.
There are three important groups of ships: my personal ship, the ships in my fleet, and the ships of my enemies. The same ship model could be optimal for all three, but probably is not.

The recommendation for TM can be generalized to: Never swim alone!

On TC and AP this is easiest to achieve with TM. On X2 and X3R a TL did the trick. A moving base/storage and vessels of your own. You don't have to travel the galaxy alone like we did three decades ago with Cobra Mk III.

A fleet might not solve all quests, but it can save some battles. Fleet is also entirely different challenge than being solo top gun.


The OP question involves the enemy. If I would know (remember) whether and (if yes) what kind of enemies/tasks the plot offers, then I would probably recommend personal ships that are strong on the features that "optimize the odds" against those enemies/errands.

We have not gone into specifics, and therefore it is IMHO better to cover both potential allies and enemies.


The plots are in general aimed for "instant gratification", with little legwork required. In fact, some missions are "out of focus" with "too much hardware". As example, X3R plot had a chase inside Asteroid -- sitting in a Destroyer was not a way to take it.
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Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 20:04

jlehtone wrote: The OP question involves the enemy. If I would know (remember) whether and (if yes) what kind of enemies/tasks the plot offers, then I would probably recommend personal ships that are strong on the features that "optimize the odds" against those enemies/errands.
We're almost far enough into this conversation to say that anyone that doesn't want to see a spoiler should have just stopped watching...but...
SpoilerShow
The Argon give you ships that are basically optimal for the tasks as they come up. If you have a thing against Argon ships I guess you could say that the Centaur should be traded off for <preferred other race M6> but that's hardly necessary. Also, I suppose it might be interesting to put off the plot long enough that when they give you the Centaur you could ignore it and hop in your personal destroyer class and really run amok with that mission instead of "just doing your part" by eliminating support craft while the designated heavies slug it out, but that's something to try out on a later replay, IMO.

The only mission in the plot that is really a serious challenge is the mission to capture a particular brand of ship, and that challenge is created by the randomness of causing a bail more than by whatever ship you might be flying. Sometimes getting one bailed requires destroying a handful, and sometimes it requires destroying a fleet's worth. RNG.
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RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 20:06

jlehtone wrote:The recommendation for TM can be generalized to: Never swim alone!
[...]
A fleet might not solve all quests, but it can save some battles. Fleet is also entirely different challenge than being solo top gun.
Indeed, and good advice, in my opinion. The enemy tends to focus mainly on the player's ship (unless the player is very passive), and so it's actually not all that hard to keep one's minions alive, while they hammer the hell out of the enemies. :D
jlehtone wrote:... three decades ago with Cobra Mk III.
Ah, good times... :) (By the way, if the nostalgia gets strong, check out Oolite - I'll say no more, as I already consider myself to be sailing quite close to the wind with regards to good form.)
jlehtone wrote:T As example, X3R plot had a chase inside Asteroid -- sitting in a Destroyer was not a way to take it.
Well, luckily for first-timers, it isn't possible to even try that, or to choose one's ship, for that matter - the player gets put into Saya's Boron fighter (Barracuda I think). That being said, it's also a pity to some extent... (I'm big on choices :) )
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 20:30

If you want to save some money the OTAS Solano M4(Legend's Home) could be of interest you can get one completely equipped with 6PACs and 3x25mj for less than a million and it's quite fast, too. And get a TM they are very useful at least until you can buy a TL or M1, for beginners the OTAS Zephyrus(Legend's Home) is a decent choice as player ship, while not the best trader it extremely well shielded and for freighter heavily armed and quite fast. In AP there is one advanced M3 variant buyable the adv. perseus.(Third Redemption/Heaven's Assertion)

Or you could try to be loved by the terrans and save money for a Springblossom before starting the plot,
SpoilerShow
if you do so try to store a good amount of (250)M/AM Warheads and (100+some)Hullplating for the later story
any additional Hullplating can be used to repair the damaged prototype inside the unknown Xenonsector 20 should suffice
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Post by Nanook » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 20:49

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Nanook wrote: By the same token, you don't get rep gains for killing pirates in their sectors. Teladi are the 'true neutrals' of the X Universe.
I need to check this, as Teladi *will* pay bounty (if the player is licensed) for pirate kills in their space (which means they at least officially approve, and so a reputation improvement is also implied - at least, "On behalf of Chairman CEO, the Teladi Company are grateful" seems to imply so...), so I'm not sure about the reputation thing - it may have been that way in earlier titles and been changed more recently, perhaps, for all I know. (Hmmm, time to do set a bookmark point in time in my current game and go collect eyepatches in Teladiania - back soon... :D )...
Nope, it's always been that way. The reason you get an 'official thank you and reward', assuming you have a license, is because they need to keep up appearances with the other races. They have to thank you, but they don't have to like you. :wink:
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Wed, 1. Nov 17, 21:18

I'm trying to give generalized advice for a generalized question. Without knowing the preferred combat style of the person I'm recommending a ship to.

I'd rather suggest a ship that can do most of what's asked than a ship the OP doesn't know how to fly that should be able to do everything and frustrate him unduly.
A Pirate's Revenge Completed Now in PDF by _Zap_
APR Book 2: Best Served Cold Updated 8/5/2016

The Tale of Ea't s'Quid Completed

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