Automating delivery from TL with CLS

amoe · Post by **amoe** » Sat, 28. Oct 17, 14:42

Hi there,

For a part of the Hub plot, I want to deliver Ore to the Hub from a large Ore complex. I could do it with individual TS freighters, but I had an idea (based on a thread here from EarlHarewood) to use a TL.

I want to have the TL pick up Ore from the equipment dock immediately, and automatically fly to the Hub and unload when the TL's cargo is full. I couldn't work out how to do this. I can get it to pick up fine, by setting "Minimum transfer amount on collection" in "supply conditions" to 0%. I thought that setting "Minimum transfer amount on delivery" to 90% or 100% would get the result that I want, but it doesn't do what I want. If I set it that high, then the TL will never leave even when it's totally full. Once I set it to lower, around 65%, then the TL moves, but it just flies back and forth loading and unloading immediately, it doesn't wait until it has 65% cargo full. So it looks like this setting doesn't do what I think it does.

How could I achieve this?

Cheers,
Dave

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Sat, 28. Oct 17, 15:31

The problem here is the large disparity in capacities between the TL, and the two docks (the Hub and the EqD) - the TL holds so much more, which is pretty much the inverse to the usual situation (the docks holding more than the ships serving them), and this makes things awkward (not impossible, I think, but IMHO not worth the trouble.) Also, the Hub will only accept up to a certain amount per transfer (its own capacity) which is far exceeded by the TL's capacity - every time you transfer the max amount, you have to wait a couple/few seconds for the ware to disappear so you can transfer more, and this is if doing it manually - automatically works the same, but that delay will likely cause some mild havoc. Thus, you may need to use a CLS2 freighter to first load up the TL, then another at the other side to offload it in "installments". This is rather convoluted, and you'd get just as fast results by just using a single CLS2 TS (much cheaper than a TL) to do the job - sure, it will make lots of trips, but it'll keep going non-stop until you've met your quota, and you can pretty much set it to go and forget about it. To optimise this, you can make sure your Hub sector is connected to wherever you're shipping from, to keep down the transportation costs.

An alternative approach is to use CAGs at your Hub, though of course then you have to pay for the ore you ship in (you can finance that by having your other station/s complex/es pipe their excess funds to your Hub.) This is the approach I tend to use (though I have long since stopped building large complexes, especially mining ones, so I pretty much HAVE to do things this way

) Just a thought, use it/don't use it...

[EDIT: typocide]

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sat, 28. Oct 17, 17:53

As Raven mentioned, the problem here is the HUB taking the load in chunks. Your TL offloads one "HUB worth" of ore, and in the time it takes for the HUB to absorb it the TL is saying "okay, my next waypoint is the dock to pick up ore" and off it flies.

The solution* is not very cost effective because you need a second TL. On the one at the dock you just need a load ore max cargo running all the time with transfer on pickup set to zero. The second one needs an unload at the HUB, with transfer on delivery set to zero, and a load from the other TL with transfer on pickup set to 90% or so.

Of course it will also need either some refueling setup for the jump drive. Or you can just load in enough e-cells for it to make a whole bunch of trips and keep a vague eye on it.

Note that you can't do a reverse on this because the HUB can only dock one TL at a time. So the transfer has to be done at the EqD.

*theoretical, I haven't actually tried this

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Sat, 28. Oct 17, 18:10

Timsup2nothin wrote:As Raven mentioned, the problem here is the HUB taking the load in chunks. Your TL offloads one "HUB worth" of ore, and in the time it takes for the HUB to absorb it the TL is saying "okay, my next waypoint is the dock to pick up ore" and off it flies.

A much clearer explanation than my attempt!

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Sun, 29. Oct 17, 02:01

If you have the cash, three TL's is the best option I've found. And a small supporting fleet of TS. Basically I park one TL near my mining operation, whether mobile or stationary, and deliver ore to that. Then a second TL near the Hub, and deliver ore From it. Then a third TL delivers between them. I like two Mammoths and an Elephant for the runner. The Elephant is fast enough to make it to the Mammoth's quickly, and carries enough to make the trip worth while.

RainerPrem · Post by **RainerPrem** » Sun, 29. Oct 17, 06:16

Triaxx2 wrote:If you have the cash, three TL's is the best option I've found. And a small supporting fleet of TS. Basically I park one TL near my mining operation, whether mobile or stationary, and deliver ore to that. Then a second TL near the Hub, and deliver ore From it. Then a third TL delivers between them. I like two Mammoths and an Elephant for the runner. The Elephant is fast enough to make it to the Mammoth's quickly, and carries enough to make the trip worth while.

Or you can use just a single CLS1 freighter to do the same with no TLs involved.

cu
Rainer

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Sun, 29. Oct 17, 23:15

Yes, but it's SLOW. Three TL's, and perhaps two dozen ships, one dozen mining and delivering to the TL, and another dozen shipping from the TL to the Hub, and you can get a lot of ore moving. It's all about speed.

amoe · Post by **amoe** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 00:17

Confirmed that Tim's solution works. Using it now with 2 TLs + 5 freighters moving to the equipment dock, very clever. It seems that having Unload as the first action on the second TL will cause it to wait at the station until the whole cargo is unloaded. For me, I quite like this setup, it may not be the most efficient but it's very easy to keep track of. Thanks everyone!

zazie · Post by **zazie** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 11:10

According to the Manual for CLS2 you can introduce a value for 'waiting at a station' before the next step.
Using this feature and applying it to a TL will 'oversteer' the settings of the Hub.

Create a command chain following this pattern
unload 800 Ore at Hub (800 = Hub-limit for one transfer iirc) and wait one mizura
unload 800 Ore at Hub and wait one mizura
unload 800 Ore at Hub and wait ...
...

Repeat as many times unless the TL is empty

The "waiting part" is
Enter - {0} {Hub} {anything} {anything} {1} {0}
where {1} is one mizura. You can change the value to your needs. One mizura is enough for the Hub as the 800 Ore is 'consumed' within some seconds and the Hub therefore ready for another upload.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 15:40

That looks like the entry format for Reunion CLS. I'm not sure that functionality carried over to TC.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 16:08

X3TC BP Manual:
2.4.4 Waypoints

... You even can tell the pilot just to dock on a station – he will wait for 1 Mizura before continuing on his route. ...

Implies that a Waypoint always has a minute of delay, whether it has actions or not.

Can you do?
Waypoint 1 at Hub
- unload 800
Waypoint 2 at Hub
Waypoint 3 at Hub
- unload 800
Waypoint 4 at Hub
...

I had just 3 * "a Mining Sector" where such sector had: 10*TS mining, 1*TL as buffer, 1*CLS TS hauling from miners to TL

Then CLS TS to haul from those 3 TL into the Hub. The frequency of the trips by "small" ship did not seem to be any significant issue.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 18:23

The question would be whether it has the one minute delay every time it docks, or every time it processes. The waypoint list would combine all those operations into a single waypoint with multiple actions. It would be an interesting thing to try though.

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 21:07

If you're unloading into the Hub, you've got it easier than you're thinking. Dock one TL at the Hub, and set it to unload as much as the Hub can hold. Give it no other way points and have all your TS deliver to that. The TL just sits and unloads as quickly as the Hub will allow, and then you've got however much cargo the TL can hold. I always forget Capitals can dock at the Hub.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 22:30

@ Triaxx2: Can ships deliver to a docked TL?

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 30. Oct 17, 22:32

Alan Phipps wrote:@ Triaxx2: Can ships deliver to a docked TL?

I'm not Triaxx2, but yes they can. As long as they can dock at the station where the TL is docked, of course.

zazie · Post by **zazie** » Tue, 31. Oct 17, 09:55

It still works in X3TC. I did the Hub-plot once this way, after having gotten the hint by Lucike himself (years ago, in a German thread).
I did not use a TL though, but the approach is the same: I used Mistral SF buying Ore and delivering it to the Hub. The unload-process was 'managed' by the 'wait one mizura'-loop.
btw: you can save such CLS-settings (within the CLS-Software) and load it to another TS of same type. It makes it rather easy have several trading ships running the settings you need.

(On a side note: I copied the formula with those {-brackets directly from Lucikes site. Can't check if the 'grammar' has been changed atm. But the principle is still working.)

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Tue, 31. Oct 17, 17:33

Yes, I also use that to deliver fuel to a ship parked at the Legend's Home Shipyard so newly bought ships don't have to go hunting fuel before using their jump drives. Get bought, get fuel, get gone.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Tue, 31. Oct 17, 17:51

Heh, delivery to docked ships is another new thing that I have just learned of after umpteen years of playing X3 games. Don't you just love these games and their ability to keep on surprising you?

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Tue, 31. Oct 17, 18:06

Alan Phipps wrote:Don't you just love these games and their ability to keep on surprising you?

Indeed

After my own umpteen years of playing them, I'm also still finding things to experiment around with, to improve, to develop - reasons to keep playing/replaying, to put it simply.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Tue, 31. Oct 17, 18:26

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Alan Phipps wrote:Don't you just love these games and their ability to keep on surprising you?
Indeed After my own umpteen years of playing them, I'm also still finding things to experiment around with, to improve, to develop - reasons to keep playing/replaying, to put it simply.

Plus one.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Automating delivery from TL with CLS

Automating delivery from TL with CLS