Fastest way to gain rep without fighting (TC)

[RAVEN.myst]

Does the UT not have a blacklist?
Could you set the blacklist to every sector except the race you want to gain rep with?

Yes, but that would be one helluva big job!

If you have access to the hub you could also bridge a few race areas with the ST, set the hub as home and a 3 JD area becomes a 6 / 9 JD area.

Edit:
You can then set up 3 cags to get energy/ore cheap form the universe.

My favourite use for the Hub is to base CAGs (LOTS of CAGs!) there to act as traders. They make tons of money, as well as helping with race relations, and smoothing out the economy (same advantages as CLS2, but with considerably less work, a bit less/fuzzier control, and somewhat more autonomous adaptability.)

[Raztax]

When I start a Sector trader it doesn’t offer a range of sectors just says ok when I click on Sector.


Maybe I need to be a certain lvl of Sector trader as seems to work later on.

As Raven said, the traders will need to gain rank in order to set the sector limit. Here is a wiki page that lists the trader ranks if you are interested:

http://www.x3wiki.com/index.php/Traders

[Honved]

A Local Trader (Sector Trader with Range > 0) needs 6 ranks to have a Range greater than zero, and can be restarted with +1 Range for each additional 2 ranks, otherwise Range remains as set. Prime location: a LT based in Argon Prime with Range =3 can cover ALL of the Argon sectors in that region, and never stray into Pirate space.

It takes 7 Ranks to be eligible as a UT.

In most games, I end up with 30-100 Local Traders and CAGs, but only 0-3 UTs. They have the potential to trade high-value goods over longer ranges than the LTs, and can potentially make a few really lucrative deals, but are far less survivable. Generally, I want them in a fast, tough ship with strong shields that can handle "L" size cargo, such as a TM or a Goner Ranger. Those in a typical TS generally don't last long, and in games where I do have a few UTs, their miniscule numbers account for the majority of my trader losses. I regard them as "optional".

[Trevelvis]

I guess I am a newbie again as no nothing of a hub

I think I need now to build my first station before looking at CLS.

[RAVEN.myst]

I guess I am a newbie again as no nothing of a hub

I think I need now to build my first station before looking at CLS.

The advantage of CLS2 is that it doesn't require stations - it allows you to automate specific trade itineraries with just freighters; however, it CAN also be used with your own stations, and to good effect, especially if combined with CAG. CAG, on the other hand, can *only* be used when homebased (ie. assigned to a station), and being a station trading specialist, does some things better than CLS2. The two combined are amazing - but that's for a more advanced course

(Incidentally, CLS1 is notionally good for moving intermediate wares through your industrial chains, but unless you scatter your factories around, since X3R it is usually better in most ways to rather link the factories together into complexes, so now CLS1 is almost obsolete. It's indispensable in X2, though...)

[Timsup2nothin]

... so now CLS1 is almost obsolete.

You know that statements like this motivate me like a red flag to a bull, right?

[RainerPrem]

...

(Incidentally, CLS1 is notionally good for moving intermediate wares through your industrial chains, but unless you scatter your factories around, since X3R it is usually better in most ways to rather link the factories together into complexes, so now CLS1 is almost obsolete. It's indispensable in X2, though...)

Hi,

while your comments are most often well founded, this one is not.

CLS1 might be obsolete for your specific way to play the game, but as soon as you have stations with surpluses of wares and others lacking the same ones the CLS1 comes very handy. Transporting ECells into Loomanckstraat once the station grows too large for the two power plants north comes into mind.

I could say that CLS2 is completely obsolete, because *I* never used it, but I don't

cu
Rainer

[Timsup2nothin]

CLS1 might be obsolete for your specific way to play the game, but as soon as you have stations with surpluses of wares and others lacking the same ones the CLS1 comes very handy. Transporting ECells into Loomanckstraat once the station grows too large for the two power plants north comes into mind.

I could say that CLS2 is completely obsolete, because *I* never used it, but I don't

cu
Rainer

Accurate. That said, *I* could say that this particular situation is one I would solve with CLS2 rather than CLS1, and that is true for pretty much every application of CLS1 I have ever heard, so maybe CLS1 really is obsolete.

But I'm not saying that because I just made it my mission to learn everything I can about this CLS1 that I've never used, and find a use for it that it is uniquely suited for.

[RAVEN.myst]

...
(Incidentally, CLS1 is notionally good for moving intermediate wares through your industrial chains, but unless you scatter your factories around, since X3R it is usually better in most ways to rather link the factories together into complexes, so now CLS1 is almost obsolete. It's indispensable in X2, though...)

CLS1 might be obsolete for your specific way to play the game, but as soon as you have stations with surpluses of wares and others lacking the same ones the CLS1 comes very handy. Transporting ECells into Loomanckstraat once the station grows too large for the two power plants north comes into mind.

I could say that CLS2 is completely obsolete, because *I* never used it, but I don't

Well, I *did* say "almost obsolete", and "usually", and "in most ways" ie. it wasn't a categorical and absolute statement ("almost" is very different from "completely".) Had I not qualified my statement thus, it would indeed have been patently false. Since the introduction of complexes, I have (yes, personally) never had any need for CLS1, because it can't do anything that CLS2 doesn't do better (including in the scenario that you cite - especially since CLS1 is limited to moving out products to be used as resources, while CLS2 is not so restricted, it can just as easily move surplus resources, which broadens its functionality.) Quite simply, because "external commodity logistics" is not limited to only "external" but also handles "internal" with equal aplomb, it has pretty much superseded CLS1. Believe me, I've actively TRIED (on several occasions), to give myself pretexts to use CLS1, to come up with scenarios that require it as the best way forward (because I consider it very elegant and I find it sad that it's no longer *as* useful as it was in X2) but it simply doesn't compare, once you get the hang of CLS2 (which does suffer the one regard of being considerably more complex to get to grips with; so there's still certainly one way in which CLS1 is superior: it's significantly simpler to use, but in a usage mode that complexes+CLS2 render *nearly* obsolete; also, once CLS2 is learned, there really isn't likely to be much reason to use its predecessor, however distinguished...)

At least, since I'm currently re-playing X2, I'm getting to put the CLS1 to some use Keep in mind that I play X2 in a very similar way to how I play the later X titles, so my fundamental approaches are the same - the only reason I get to use CLS1 is because neither complexes not CLS2 exist in X2, so I have no option (ie. only the specifics of how I implement my overall approach is adjusted, solely for lack of the more recent tools.)

[RainerPrem]

CLS1 might be obsolete for your specific way to play the game, but as soon as you have stations with surpluses of wares and others lacking the same ones the CLS1 comes very handy. Transporting ECells into Loomanckstraat once the station grows too large for the two power plants north comes into mind.

I could say that CLS2 is completely obsolete, because *I* never used it, but I don't

cu
Rainer

Accurate. That said, *I* could say that this particular situation is one I would solve with CLS2 rather than CLS1, and that is true for pretty much every application of CLS1 I have ever heard, so maybe CLS1 really is obsolete.

But I'm not saying that because I just made it my mission to learn everything I can about this CLS1 that I've never used, and find a use for it that it is uniquely suited for.

Hi,

let's say that sitting down and plan an elaborate path with many stations (don't forget to refuel) instead of saying "Transport ECells from one of those three stations to one of those four stations (whichs needs them most)" with a handful of clicks sounds rather tedious.

But everybody has a different sight to those games, which is a GOOD THING.

cu
Rainer

[RAVEN.myst]

let's say that sitting down and plan an elaborate path with many stations (don't forget to refuel) instead of saying "Transport ECells from one of those three stations to one of those four stations (whichs needs them most)" with a handful of clicks sounds rather tedious.

But everybody has a different sight to those games, which is a GOOD THING.

Yes, options are good. And even though I have yet to find a use for CLS1 (outside of X2, that is) that I can't do with more precision with CLS2 or even (in some situations) with CAG, I'm glad it (still) exists - I'd rather it stick around than not.

CLS2 is a way to program (internal and external) logistics explicitly: that means much tighter control, but at the cost of much more work. It's "low level" in computer and logic terms.

CLS1 is a way to program (internal only) logistics implicitly: this abdicates some control in favour of convenience and intuitive usage - delegation, basically. It's "high level". The cost of implicit instructions is that they require a defined context/framework to operate within. "Get me a pack of smokes" is sufficient if you know where a nearby shop is, what brand I like, and how much it will cost - you are able to fill in the blanks; if you don't have those particulars, I have to direct you to a suitable shop and specify my preference, and perhaps let you know how much scratch you'll need to have on hand

Thanks to your comments, I'm again trying to think of an application/usage scenario for CLS1 in X3 that will make it THE optimal choice. I thought I was onto something by combining something I read recently in another thread: I've got a hankering to play a pirate game once again, with the stipulation that I capture as much as possible, buy as little as possible (ideally, "everything" and "nothing", respectively), including stations - ie. look for TLs carrying stations (encouraging this to happen by blowing up stations, incentivising replacement, if necessary), never buying stations from a SY (except the Yaki one, once I complete Shady Business in the appropriate manner.) This would mean that I wouldn't have access to CCKs, meaning no complexes - perfect! Except that, unfortunately, it's not: I don't remember EVER seeing an NPC-owned ship with CLS software... sigh... Oh well... I'll keep on thinking (Thanks, by the way - I always appreciate inspirations to broaden my X-periences!)

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't remember EVER seeing an NPC-owned ship with CLS software... sigh... Oh well... I'll keep on thinking

CLS software is not on the spawn lists for NPC ship equipment. To play the "pure pirate" game you have to do the minor modding of adding it to at least one pirate base or anarchy port. I find that adding it to anarchy ports keeps it in sufficiently limited availability to be a challenge.

[RAVEN.myst]

I don't remember EVER seeing an NPC-owned ship with CLS software... sigh... Oh well... I'll keep on thinking

CLS software is not on the spawn lists for NPC ship equipment. To play the "pure pirate" game you have to do the minor modding of adding it to at least one pirate base or anarchy port. I find that adding it to anarchy ports keeps it in sufficiently limited availability to be a challenge.

I suspected as much - thanks for the confirm. Maybe I'll just play as a semi-official Duke's buccaneer... Then I can get the CLS software from the Comms Facility in Pity. Ooh, idea: I'll actually be an undercover Paranid intelligence officer infiltrating the criminal organisations - to preserve my cover, I cannot visit any legitimate Paranid stations and have no backup, am on my own. My handler is based on the Comms Facility, but I can only go there when there are no pirates around to see - which may be awkward, as a pirate base starts in that sector, with highly variable longevity... Hmmm, if I do this in X3TC, I can even do some work for Duke's. Also, I get to have access to Yakistan, too - also part of my assignment... OK, methinks narrative sorted.

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't remember EVER seeing an NPC-owned ship with CLS software... sigh... Oh well... I'll keep on thinking

CLS software is not on the spawn lists for NPC ship equipment. To play the "pure pirate" game you have to do the minor modding of adding it to at least one pirate base or anarchy port. I find that adding it to anarchy ports keeps it in sufficiently limited availability to be a challenge.

I suspected as much - thanks for the confirm. Maybe I'll just play as a semi-official Duke's buccaneer... Then I can get the CLS software from the Comms Facility in Pity. Ooh, idea: I'll actually be an undercover Paranid intelligence officer infiltrating the criminal organisations - to preserve my cover, I cannot visit any legitimate Paranid stations and have no backup, am on my own. My handler is based on the Comms Facility, but I can only go there when there are no pirates around to see - which may be awkward, as a pirate base starts in that sector, with highly variable longevity... Hmmm, if I do this in X3TC, I can even do some work for Duke's. Also, I get to have access to Yakistan, too - also part of my assignment... OK, methinks narrative sorted.

I would suggest that you make a point of never letting your Paranid rep get any higher than it needs to be to get to the Comm station and get your CLS software. Don't want anyone wondering why you are greeted as a great friend of mighty Xaar.

And unless I'm off the rails (which is always a possibility) CLS software is not given much of an access restriction. As long as you can dock at the station I think you can purchase it.

[RAVEN.myst]

I suspected as much - thanks for the confirm. Maybe I'll just play as a semi-official Duke's buccaneer... Then I can get the CLS software from the Comms Facility in Pity. Ooh, idea: I'll actually be an undercover Paranid intelligence officer infiltrating the criminal organisations - to preserve my cover, I cannot visit any legitimate Paranid stations and have no backup, am on my own. My handler is based on the Comms Facility, but I can only go there when there are no pirates around to see - which may be awkward, as a pirate base starts in that sector, with highly variable longevity... Hmmm, if I do this in X3TC, I can even do some work for Duke's. Also, I get to have access to Yakistan, too - also part of my assignment... OK, methinks narrative sorted.

I would suggest that you make a point of never letting your Paranid rep get any higher than it needs to be to get to the Comm station and get your CLS software. Don't want anyone wondering why you are greeted as a great friend of mighty Xaar.

And unless I'm off the rails (which is always a possibility) CLS software is not given much of an access restriction. As long as you can dock at the station I think you can purchase it.

Yes, good thinking - you never know who's listening! (But somehow I just *know* that my cover is safe here on this forum...) The plan is definitely to keep the Paranid rep as low as possible, as that Comms Facility will be the only one I deal with - I'll sell off ships at the Yaki SY (I REALLY wish that Anarchy PORTS had shipyards, too... sigh...) - ideally, I won't even have Paranid Core docking rights

As for the other, yes, AFAIK the software is quite "low tech" as far as security level goes. In any case, I won't be needing it until such time as I have enough stolen stations to require it, which I suspect will take a while, seeing as I've actually almost never seen stations being lugged around (except ice mining stations in some Terran TLs.) So I needn't report to my handler for quite some time (that's fine - it will give her time to make sure my cover wouldn't be compromised on her end - you never know how deeply the cartels have infiltrated law enforcement...)

Incidentally, according to the scripter's back-story for CLS, the software was designed by the Paranid - and in X2, you can only find it at Paranid EqDocks. But in X3TC/AP (I forget how it is in X3R, but I'll refresh myself soon enough, as it's on the list for proper re-plays ) it is available at all Argon EqDocks, and that one Paranid station...