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Xenon Hardware: Ships
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What do you think about Xenon ships for players?
I want to be able to fly them myself.
50%
 50%  [ 44 ]
I want to own them, but only be able to give them orders.
23%
 23%  [ 21 ]
I don't want them to be available in any way.
12%
 12%  [ 11 ]
I couldn't care less.
13%
 13%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 88

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Crimsonraziel





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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 13:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Crimsonraziel wrote:
No Borons and no Xenon for me would make me sad.

Indeed. Hmmm, how about... Cyborons? The Xenon dig up Bala Gi's corpse and assimirrect it in an attempt to benefit from that luminary's ship design insights...

I'm sure Bala Gi would approve this.

Kitty wrote:
Well, the main issue still is: do you trust an abandoned Xenon ship to be free of Xenon viruses ? Aren't they all Trojans ?

Trust? Rudilis Yayasisos Foologos VI sold me a copy of Kaspersky 3002.


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Last edited by Crimsonraziel on Thu, 12. Oct 17, 13:43; edited 1 time in total
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 14:23    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Kitty wrote:
Well, the main issue still is: do you trust an abandoned Xenon ship to be free of Xenon viruses ? Aren't they all Trojans ?

Beware of Xenons bearing gifts.
(Hmmm... giant-horse-shaped Xenon carriers?)


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PowerPC603





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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 18:42    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Didn't ships also come with installable modules?
You can customize them to a certain extent anyways.

They could make it so that they don't have a cockpit initially (because the Xenon have no use for a pilot seat, console to push buttons and such), but you could install a cockpit module on these ships, which do allow you to pilot them yourself after you install such a cockpit.

This cockpit module could be expensive to buy, or even better: it may require hard-to-get resources to produce them before they can be installed.
You would need your own shipyard to be able to produce cockpit modules for captured Xenon ships.

You could need some Xenon parts, which you farm from other Xenon ships (they leave some loot behind when destroyed anyways).
One of those resources could be some blueprint, which enables you to produce the cockpits.

The blueprints may have been stored in their computer-memory from before the time they became sentient, because previously, humans needed those cockpits to be able to fly them.
Since the Xenon don't need cockpits, they got rid of the cockpits on newly produced ships and they tried to delete the cockpit blueprints from their memory, but the process has failed because of the entire computer overhaul during the process of becoming sentient, producing fragmented blueprint pieces, which were never deleted afterwards.

You could need several different blueprint pieces to construct one complete blueprint (thus actually restoring the original cockpit design) and they could also make it usable only once, to make it even harder to own flyable Xenon ships.

Once consumed, the blueprint may be gone and you need to find new blueprint pieces to construct a new complete blueprint.


This way, Xenon ships are not player-flyable at first, but with some effort, they can be made flyable by the player once he has his own shipyard.




This gives another useful usage to crafting your own stuff.
And a reason to own your own shipyard station and to kill Xenons (to gather the required resources to be able to produce cockpits for captured ships.


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A5PECT





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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 20:59    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Quote:
Didn't ships also come with installable modules?


IIRC, they said we can customize modules that are on a ship. We can't customize a module that isn't there in the first place.

Also, there won't be customizable cockpits a la XR.

Quote:
Q: Will there be cockpits customizations?
A: No. One cockpit per ship.


I suppose the technically correct answer is "All ships will have one or fewer cockpits."


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Nanook
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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 21:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

linolafett wrote:
... Maybe also a little bit of lore, to explain why it shouldnt be possible (xenon dont have cockpits etc).


And maybe not. Xenon ships have had cockpits from as far back as X-Tension, where they were red-hued (that was cool, btw). Changing the lore, are you? Wink


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A5PECT





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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 22:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

There are some interesting implications in making Xenon cockpit-less.

You'd have ships that don't need any crew, in contrast to almost every other ship in the universe.

Rather than having a cockpit, the only way for the player to directly control them is through remote means (a clever re-application of the drone interface on the Skunk).

Things like that would make capturing Xenon ships more rewarding; they already have a reputation as trophies or prizes for combat-oriented players from previous games.


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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Thu, 12. Oct 17, 06:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

A5PECT wrote:
There are some interesting implications in making Xenon cockpit-less.

You'd have ships that don't need any crew, in contrast to almost every other ship in the universe.

Rather than having a cockpit, the only way for the player to directly control them is through remote means (a clever re-application of the drone interface on the Skunk).

Things like that would make capturing Xenon ships more rewarding; they already have a reputation as trophies or prizes for combat-oriented players from previous games.


Hi,

well, no crew. But you need someone to clean the whole system from any remnants of the AGI code and install a new OS.

cu
Rainer

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rulerofallcheese





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PostPosted: Fri, 13. Oct 17, 04:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

WHOO! Remote controlled xenons! Let's turn them into "I" sized drones! Very Happy

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Crimsonraziel





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PostPosted: Fri, 13. Oct 17, 09:46    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

A5PECT wrote:
There are some interesting implications in making Xenon cockpit-less.

You'd have ships that don't need any crew, in contrast to almost every other ship in the universe.

Rather than having a cockpit, the only way for the player to directly control them is through remote means (a clever re-application of the drone interface on the Skunk).

Things like that would make capturing Xenon ships more rewarding; they already have a reputation as trophies or prizes for combat-oriented players from previous games.



Yeah, no Crew. Which in turn means there is also nobody who can learn and improve himself (fixed level of abilities) and you can't fly it yourself. I think this would be a fair trade.

But yes, please recycle the VR system for drones from Rebirth and
put it in the cargobay. You are still on board and you will die, if the ship is destroyed and you don't need interiors and cockpits for every xenon ship just one for all (because as stated limited time and workforce are the issues here)


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BlackDemon





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PostPosted: Fri, 13. Oct 17, 11:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Morkonan wrote:
For thematic reasons, I don't think Xenon ships should be useable by the player. I'd rather keep them mysterious and powerful. I think that they could be able to be captured, but only then able to be scrapped, since the A.I. controlling them is either destroyed or suicides, frying everything in the ship.

The human cockpit explanation makes sense and adds a nice bit of flavor. So, perhaps, a story mission could come from that and one or two special, mission related, Xenon ships could actually be captured and made flyable. That would be something I'd like to see. But, I wouldn't want to see any Xenon ships available for general use by the player outside of a couple in story-missions.


I tend to agree with this point of view. Xenon, thematically, are the anti-player. Allowing players to then capture and/or use their ships takes away some of the mystery and danger about them. The Xenon should be seen as such a rogue force that everyone simply wants to eradicate their technology from the universe, not try to clone or use it themselves.

There could perhaps be some interesting technology research that could come out of studying the Xenon architecture and ship design, but I'm against directly capturing/using their ships.

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DaMuncha





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PostPosted: Sun, 15. Oct 17, 15:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Well Terraformers (xenon) were exactly that, an AI that was sent out to space to teraform planets for colonisation.

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gbjbaanb





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PostPosted: Sun, 15. Oct 17, 19:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

linolafett wrote:
MegaJohnny wrote:

I suspect making them player flyable isn't as simple as in previous games, as the cockpit is an actual thing now, and you have to consider how the player will disembark after landing. So they have to give it more thought than just deciding where the camera should be.


Spot on. Thats why we currently can not have flying xenon ships.
Its not a technical limitiation, but an art time limitation. Maybe also a little bit of lore, to explain why it shouldnt be possible (xenon dont have cockpits etc).


Does this bode well for modders, if making cockpits is too time consuming, or will xenon cockpits then be a possibility in future mods?

Mind you, this shows exactly why walking around stations was such a stupidly bad idea - all that time ES art design staff spent creating the station interiors and NPCs could have been much more productively spent making xenon cockpits. This is why we can't have the nice things we really want. Remember this next time anyone asks for walking on planets or FPS boarding parties.

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spankahontis





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PostPosted: Sun, 15. Oct 17, 20:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Axeface wrote:
linolafett wrote:
MegaJohnny wrote:

I suspect making them player flyable isn't as simple as in previous games, as the cockpit is an actual thing now, and you have to consider how the player will disembark after landing. So they have to give it more thought than just deciding where the camera should be.


Spot on. Thats why we currently can not have flying xenon ships.
Its not a technical limitiation, but an art time limitation. Maybe also a little bit of lore, to explain why it shouldnt be possible (xenon dont have cockpits etc).



Is this confirmation that the 'hardwired to have cockpit and corridors' is incorrect, or are you saying that in X4 it might be explained that way (but not the case in previous games).



What Humans consider as 'Hard-coded Limitation' maybe a walk in the park for a machine intelligence.
They are designed to learn and evolve, so figuring out how to reverse-engineer and improve on themselves isn't an impossibility within the canon lore of the Xenon.

I'd love to see the Xenon able to create avatars of themselves, mimic the Human Form like the replicators in Stargate.
Be a cool new twist if the Xenon managed to form their own race of bi-pedal machines.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Mon, 16. Oct 17, 02:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

spankahontis wrote:

I'd love to see the Xenon able to create avatars of themselves, mimic the Human Form like the replicators in Stargate.
Be a cool new twist if the Xenon managed to form their own race of bi-pedal machines.

I very much hope not: despite the creepiness factor of the "uncanny valley" (whose effects cannot be easily and adequately reproduced in a game, where our suspension of disbelief counteracts it, in any case), anthropomorphising antagonists pretty much inevitably demystifies them, makes them more familiar, and causes us to (even if subconsciously) project our emotional and motivational biases/assumptions onto them. In short - more human-like Xenon would make them less "scary".


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Alan Phipps
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PostPosted: Mon, 16. Oct 17, 11:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

One of the previous X game immersion plus factors for me was that Xenon ships, like the Kha'ak, would not respond in any way to comms. Not even with spoof messages. It made them 'sinister'.


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