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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Sun, 8. Oct 17, 20:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Alan Phipps wrote:
You may find that as soon as hull goes below 40%, the probably excellent engineer on board (aided by any surviving CURVs) switches from repairing jumpdrive or engines to repairing hull. You just need to out-match the repair rate with damage rate - I think. Maybe guns + attack drones + missiles + any assisting ships of yours will do the trick.


Hi,

that sounds reasonable. I called one of my military ships to aid me, which together with my shooting was finally enough. Now I need to bring my trophy back to known space...

cu
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Mon, 9. Oct 17, 03:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RainerPrem wrote:

RainerPrem wrote:
@Raven: You just mentioned the Balor in the X4-thread. I didn't realize what that ship does. Can I command it to take out a target's jump drive and engines and then stop shooting Novadrones?
I bought me a Balor, but nothing points to any special features with Novadrones. Can it be that this was removed during one of the patches?

No, it's like I said, unfortunately: the only way to direct other ships to specifically attack a particular surface element MAY BE (I haven't tested this yet) to be in your Skank, targeting that element, and using the radial menu to designate it as target. Firstly, though, as mentioned above I haven't yet tested to see whether the ships will target that element, or the ship that it's on - if the latter, that means the method isn't valid, and there's no way at all to order ships to focus (unlike in X3, where you could order ships to attack shields, for instance.) Secondly, only you squad can be ordered to attack a designated target, and the WHOLE squad - which can be inconvenient unless your "squad" consists of just a specialist ship.

You'd think that a specialist-role ship with a specialized co-axial-mounted weapon would have command options pertaining specifically to that, right? Oh well...

RainerPrem wrote:

Edit: Another question: Is there any chance to repair the reputation with UA? It's at -15 at the moment, so we don't shot at each other, but I am not allowed to dock at their stations. And it seems that the X3-feature to find any of their members on other stations doesn't exist any longer. And if ... the Plutarchs were also hostile to me. Tse only possibility I see is to kill enemy ships in their sectors. But who are their enemies - apart from me?

Unfortunately, the only way I know of to repair a reputation at that level (I think below -7 is where the difficulty starts, with loss of docking privileges and willingness to even talk ie. no missions) is what you described. They do have one enemy I can think of, off the top of my head - Xenon, which do roam around the Fields of Opportunity. Sadly, because the UA stations don't have neighbours, you can't summon up Xenon by taking missions from another faction and then intercepting them on the way in and hoping they're in the UA station's "airspace" - so you will have to hang around and wait, and/or roam around a bit, snag the attention of any Xenon you find, then laboriously lure them toward any UA station, and execute them. Fortunately, as you observed when repairing your Plutarch reputation, at that level each enemy killed has a significant positive impact on your relations.

UA and Cartel are odd and tricky beasts - you'd think that they have TU as an enemy, since they constantly prey on their ships, and yet... you likely noticed how the Marauder Phoenixes are often docked at Overwatch to offload the loot they just shot out of TU (and other) ships! Right under Overwatch's nose! I understand what Ego were trying to do with those two dodgy factions, but the implementation is highly inelegant, by dint of being nonsensically inconsistent.

RainerPrem wrote:
I think I'm going crazy. I found an ATL Arawn far away from support. I killed all its drones, I demolished everything on its surface, even the two drone bays deep in its bowels. And now I'm shooting at it like for an eternity and can't get its hull below 40%. Each time it reached 39 it goes up again.

What the ...?

The reason why the engineer is so effective on an Arawn (and, you'll find, also on Fulmekrons and Lyramekrons) is that engineers repair hulls as a percentage-over-time, and those particular ships' hulls being very thick, the result is a high number of hull-points repaired per unit time. The Skank's weapons have a hard time keeping up unless, as Alan pointed out, you supplement with ammo expenditure - or, as Alan suggested and you already discovered, you simply enlist the help of a capital ship's weapons.


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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Mon, 9. Oct 17, 06:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi,

RAVEN.myst wrote:
RainerPrem wrote:

I bought me a Balor, but nothing points to any special features with Novadrones. Can it be that this was removed during one of the patches?

No, it's like I said, unfortunately: the only way to direct other ships to specifically attack a particular surface element MAY BE (I haven't tested this yet) to be in your Skank, targeting that element, and using the radial menu to designate it as target. Firstly, though, as mentioned above I haven't yet tested to see whether the ships will target that element, or the ship that it's on - if the latter, that means the method isn't valid, and there's no way at all to order ships to focus (unlike in X3, where you could order ships to attack shields, for instance.) Secondly, only you squad can be ordered to attack a designated target, and the WHOLE squad - which can be inconvenient unless your "squad" consists of just a specialist ship.


This is not correct. I ordered two of my squad members to stay away, and only the Balor to attack the ship I was boarding. It worked. The Balor attacked with its normal weapons, and from time to time there was kind of big bang with not so much effect. Perhaps that was a novadrone?

RAVEN.myst wrote:

You'd think that a specialist-role ship with a specialized co-axial-mounted weapon would have command options pertaining specifically to that, right? Oh well...

...

UA and Cartel are odd and tricky beasts - you'd think that they have TU as an enemy, since they constantly prey on their ships, and yet... you likely noticed how the Marauder Phoenixes are often docked at Overwatch to offload the loot they just shot out of TU (and other) ships! Right under Overwatch's nose! I understand what Ego were trying to do with those two dodgy factions, but the implementation is highly inelegant, by dint of being nonsensically inconsistent.


Yes, I noticed the same with the TU Forge.

There is a kind of mission (the one I happened to get my Arawn as a side dish) telling you to kill the leader of an enemy squad somewhere else in the same sector. It directs you to a group of Xenon with two Ks and a handful of small fighters. In my case this squad spawned near an ATL station. So finding that in FoO might give me the opportunity.

RAVEN.myst wrote:

RainerPrem wrote:
I think I'm going crazy. I found an ATL Arawn far away from support. I killed all its drones, I demolished everything on its surface, even the two drone bays deep in its bowels. And now I'm shooting at it like for an eternity and can't get its hull below 40%. Each time it reached 39 it goes up again.

What the ...?

The reason why the engineer is so effective on an Arawn (and, you'll find, also on Fulmekrons and Lyramekrons) is that engineers repair hulls as a percentage-over-time, and those particular ships' hulls being very thick, the result is a high number of hull-points repaired per unit time. The Skank's weapons have a hard time keeping up unless, as Alan pointed out, you supplement with ammo expenditure - or, as Alan suggested and you already discovered, you simply enlist the help of a capital ship's weapons.


It took me three hours and myriads of reloads ... but I got the Arawn. And the engineer I supplied managed to repair the jump drive in time. Now it's on its way to the shipyard in Albion to get its final repair and outfit.

For those who want to do it themselves:
Spoiler

There is a niche at its back only protected by a Hydra (Astrobee?) launcher. Kill it faster than you are killed and you can work your way along the ship from there.

After you destroyed the engines you can fly to 6..7km distance and use the railgun for target shooting.
Spoiler


You definitely need another ship to reduce the hull once you have dismantled all the turrets.

cu
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Mon, 9. Oct 17, 12:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RainerPrem wrote:

RAVEN.myst wrote:

No, it's like I said, unfortunately: the only way to direct other ships to specifically attack a particular surface element MAY BE (I haven't tested this yet) to be in your Skank, targeting that element, and using the radial menu to designate it as target. Firstly, though, as mentioned above I haven't yet tested to see whether the ships will target that element, or the ship that it's on - if the latter, that means the method isn't valid, and there's no way at all to order ships to focus (unlike in X3, where you could order ships to attack shields, for instance.) Secondly, only you squad can be ordered to attack a designated target, and the WHOLE squad - which can be inconvenient unless your "squad" consists of just a specialist ship.

This is not correct. I ordered two of my squad members to stay away, and only the Balor to attack the ship I was boarding. It worked. The Balor attacked with its normal weapons, and from time to time there was kind of big bang with not so much effect. Perhaps that was a novadrone?

I'm afraid you've misunderstood me: yes, you can order a single ship (or a selected few and broadcast to them) to attack a particular SHIP - but I was referring to attacking a particular *surface element* on a ship. There is no way to designate a surface element through the interface, but if you have it selected and use the radial context menu (default F, if I recall correctly) and select "Attack", that surface element MAY be used as the target - but I'm not sure at this point (the squad may merely attack the ship the surface element is on instead) - I haven't played in a few days, so haven't had an opportunity to test it yet. As for the Novadrones, they can be identified as flying in a group of four in a parallel flight path, with purple trails, and they show up as red dots (as do all missiles) on the radar, again in a tight group of four.

RainerPrem wrote:

RAVEN.myst wrote:

You'd think that a specialist-role ship with a specialized co-axial-mounted weapon would have command options pertaining specifically to that, right? Oh well...

...

UA and Cartel are odd and tricky beasts - you'd think that they have TU as an enemy, since they constantly prey on their ships, and yet... you likely noticed how the Marauder Phoenixes are often docked at Overwatch to offload the loot they just shot out of TU (and other) ships! Right under Overwatch's nose! I understand what Ego were trying to do with those two dodgy factions, but the implementation is highly inelegant, by dint of being nonsensically inconsistent.


Yes, I noticed the same with the TU Forge.

There is a kind of mission (the one I happened to get my Arawn as a side dish) telling you to kill the leader of an enemy squad somewhere else in the same sector. It directs you to a group of Xenon with two Ks and a handful of small fighters. In my case this squad spawned near an ATL station. So finding that in FoO might give me the opportunity.

Good luck! That would certainly save you some bother... Very Happy


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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 05:52    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi,

so I finished exploring Toride and Cold Star, and all that remains to complete the mission is the northern "tail" of West Gate. To find the zones I took a mission with apparently was located in the northernmost zone.

After having collected my squad (2 Taranis, 1 Balor, 1 Arawn) I set sail straight north to the mission icon. Halfway there I noticed that my squad was not even following me. While one of the ships was still in the zone we last met (Nirin Treaty) the other three were at different "Empty Space" zones to the west, apparently where the Xenon zones are located I haven't found yet.

A closer look told me that some of them were sometimes inverting their course and flying back where they just came. Well, I made my way to the target, a Xenon K, accompanied by around twenty M, N and Ps and another K. A challenge but not a too big one. So I started decimating the escort, until one of my Taranises arrived. Then I ordered it to attack and made my way into the bowels of the K to destroy it from within. That finally having done, I docked at the T, and ordered it to fly back to Nirin Treaty, calculating that it would take the same route through the to me still unknown zones. I was rather astonished when the ship - still under fire from the rest of the escorts - immediately jumped to the beacon in Serra's End. Hu??? Apparently it was too damaged.

So I reloaded, ordered it to leave the immediate vicinity, and killed some more Xenon escorts while it repaired its hull. Then I hopped on again and gave it the "fly me to Nirin Treaty" command. I was rather astonished when the ship flew farther to the Northeast, apparently roughly to where "Faraway" is located. Since my main motivation was to find the missing zones, I didn't object. Five minutes later, still in "Empty space" the ship suddenly made a 180 turn and flew Southwest again.

Summary: How the Heck do those ships navigate? Based on die rolls???

Question: How can I reliably find those missing zones?

cu
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 08:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I share your pain - capital ship navigation around the HoL areas is... "troublesome" to put it VERY mildly! Unfortunately, I have no actually useful answers for you regarding this - I also end up pulling out my hair with these issues. At least, station-assigned M-freighters no longer take a one-way pilgrimage of perdition into the North there, since the last patch - before that, their route planning would involve detours all the way up North and then back down, for some reason, and needless to say, they never made it back... This sort of frustrating capital ship behaviour recently made me take a break from the game, I was so irked. In some cases, I would be ordering my ships to attack enemies *in the same zone*, and they would decide that the most direct path involved first flying in the exact opposite direction (despite total lack of any obstacles), sometimes taking them into the teeth of Xenon weapon platforms or stations.

Maybe there's spaceweed/fuel in the nebulae in those areas...


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Ezarkal





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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 14:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RainerPrem wrote:

Question: How can I reliably find those missing zones?



Go to Nirin Treaty (first to district 03, then follow the nav beacon to the "north").
Once you're there, it's pretty much the same as in Toride: Follow the path of asteroids, and it will lead you to all of these zones.

Note: Having an operational jumpdrive can be handy at that point, since you'll end up over 1000 km away from the highway.


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PostPosted: Wed, 11. Oct 17, 21:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
..
Maybe there's spaceweed/fuel in the nebulae in those areas...


Or in the pizza the developers consumed. Laughing

Capital ship pathing in the game in many areas is very odd. Try having your capship fly a straight line from point A to point B in Toride, for example. They insist on flying through every single asteroid/nebula zone in the system rather than taking a direct line. For example, flying from the gate to HoL to the Kha'ak sector to the east requires them to take this long half circle route through every asteroid infested sector rather than the straight line through empty space. Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Thu, 12. Oct 17, 02:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
RAVEN.myst wrote:
..
Maybe there's spaceweed/fuel in the nebulae in those areas...


Or in the pizza the developers consumed. Laughing

Very Happy


Nanook wrote:
Capital ship pathing in the game in many areas is very odd. Try having your capship fly a straight line from point A to point B in Toride, for example. They insist on flying through every single asteroid/nebula zone in the system rather than taking a direct line. For example, flying from the gate to HoL to the Kha'ak sector to the east requires them to take this long half circle route through every asteroid infested sector rather than the straight line through empty space. Rolling Eyes

Indeed. I've experienced this sort of behaviour in pretty much all of Toride, much of Cold Star, and that bit of West Gate north of Nirin Treaty. Whatever coding is to blame for this seems to trace its origins back to Teladi Outpost, in fact: I've seen the same behaviour in the trackless parts of at least one of the sectors of Fields of Opportunity, in the space to the north of TU's Overwatch station (the main difference is those imaginary roads are invisible, instead of being marked by asteroids as are the more recent ones.) Here's hoping the captains in X4 discover the geometric concept of the 'straight line'! Very Happy


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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Thu, 12. Oct 17, 06:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ezarkal wrote:
Go to Nirin Treaty (first to district 03, then follow the nav beacon to the "north").
Once you're there, it's pretty much the same as in Toride: Follow the path of asteroids, and it will lead you to all of these zones.

Note: Having an operational jumpdrive can be handy at that point, since you'll end up over 1000 km away from the highway.

Hi,

Thank you very much. This is a very helpful fact. In the meantime I reset the whole mission and started anew in The Purge. Slowly following the Yellow Asteroid Road I also managed to keep my battleships with me. More or less ...

It seems as if the behavior of the Xenon Ps changed when I approached the mission area near Faraway. While they are normally mostly passive they now immediately begin to shoot at me with their hull damaging weapon.

1000km away from the next technician who is willing to repair the Skunk this is a serious obstacle. But I'm still determined to complete the mission.

Or at least find Faraway...

cu
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Ezarkal





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PostPosted: Thu, 12. Oct 17, 14:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Yeah, they are dangerous zones all right.

Just out of curiosity, what's the mission that leads you there? I don't remember seeing missions asking me to go to these zones.

... then again, the only true HoL game I've played, I played full merchant style. (No mission, no ship capture. Your only source of income is through trading.)


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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Thu, 12. Oct 17, 17:12    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ezarkal wrote:
Yeah, they are dangerous zones all right.

Just out of curiosity, what's the mission that leads you there? I don't remember seeing missions asking me to go to these zones.

... then again, the only true HoL game I've played, I played full merchant style. (No mission, no ship capture. Your only source of income is through trading.)


Hi,

the mission was a 3-Million kill mission for a "Pirate" which was a Xenon K. The problem was to kill it fast enough before more K groups arrived. I finally managed to get two of my three capital ships (Arawn and Taranis) closing in in time. The Arawn killed the K in short time.

I also found Faraway, and finished all zones in all three systems from the HoL DLC. Unfortunately the mission "map all new systems" is not finished, and I have no idea what to do next.

cu
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Ezarkal





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PostPosted: Thu, 12. Oct 17, 18:42    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

If you're really done with the quest (meaning, if you really found all the zones), you'll still have to change zone to trigger the quest reward. Returning to XR-12 should do it.

If it doesn't, then you still have some zones to find.


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PostPosted: Thu, 12. Oct 17, 18:47    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'll put the number of zones per sector you have to find in spoilers, in case you want to verify where you're missing something without spoiling the zone's location.

Spoiler
Cold Star
-NE: 4
-OM: 6
-TQ: 5

Home of Light
-WG: 11
-ST: 7
-AD: 7
-TH: 7

Torride: 18
Spoiler



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PostPosted: Fri, 13. Oct 17, 05:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ezarkal wrote:
If you're really done with the quest (meaning, if you really found all the zones), you'll still have to change zone to trigger the quest reward. Returning to XR-12 should do it.

If it doesn't, then you still have some zones to find.


Hi,

in the meantime I checked my steam achievements and found that I haven't yet completed Toride. Since I'm VERY busy to finish the final secret service mission, I hadn't the time to check which one. One thing at a time ...

cu
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