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pjknibbs



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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Sep 17, 22:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Morkonan wrote:

I was one of the few that actually liked "Enterprise." I thought it had a unique, more gritty, feel than other Star Treks, a bit more like the TOS.


My problem with Enterprise was that it wasn't gritty *enough*, considering we basically have a (relatively) small ship with only 80-odd people aboard, cruising in unknown territories months from home or any friendly faces. They could have gone so many places with that, but what they did is basically recycle the same old alien of the week stories from every other Trek franchise. (Also, why did the ship only have 83 crew? Usually crew requirements go down as technology advances, but Kirk's far more advanced ship had over 400 crew).

I also thought they had a few cop-outs in there--for example, in later eras we have shields, which are a thing that blocks incoming damage and can be measured as a percentage remaining. Obviously Enterprise was set too early for shields, so instead we get "polarised hull plating", a thing that blocks incoming damage and which can be measured as a percentage remaining. Totally different, I'm sure you'll agree. Wink

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Kapakio



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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 09:37    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

burger1 wrote:
Expanse season 2 is on some netflix in some countries today.

https://unogs.com/video/?v=80029822


I just watched episode 3 and I'm really liking it. It brought me nice memories from old X2 and X3 on the space battle with rail guns !!

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Redvers Ganderpoke





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 11:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

mrbadger wrote:
like Babylon 5. As bad as the subsequent series was good.


If a new series today had the first few episodes as bad as the Babylon 5's it wouldn't even make it to the screen. That first series was terrible (although you have to watch it as it sets up a lot of the following plots).


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matthewfarmery





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 13:57    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I like B5, granted that the first series could have been better, but season 2 to 4 was really good, 2 been probably the best, while season 5 I don't really rate.

But I personally like B5 better then ST, it was a lot more darker toned. As for the spin off series, Crusade, I just didn't get into that and glad it got canned.

I tried watching enterprise, just didn't think much of it, I think a prequel was a bad idea, and now we have this new series coming up that might end up making the exact same mistakes. If they can't revive ST, they should just let it die. (and I don't exactly think much of the recent films either, especially the last one, which makes a lot of mistakes


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BigBANGtheory





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 18:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

B5 is better than Star Trek because it has a great story arc, they tried it with Voyager & DS9 but ended up padding it into oblivion.

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mrbadger





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 19:20    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Voayager and DS9 didn't get any movies, they just ended. I liked Voyager, but Star trek in general is all a bit too clean cut for me, too 'perfect vision of the US' in space for my liking.

Other shows that have avoided such a blinkered worldview have fared better, but not been as populer with Americans, who do love their fantasy 'perfect country'.

B5 season one was good. Michael O'Hare, who played Commander Jeffrey Sinclair was suffering an incurable and progreesively worsening mental illness involving almost constant hallucinations, so his performance being as good as it was is nothing short of miraculous.

They had to replace him because he couldn't keep acting and made up another reason at his request to hide his illness from the shows fans.

Season 5 I never liked. I tried, one or two episodes are good, but the story was done.

The story was compressed into four seasons because it was going to get canned making season four awesome, then they gave it another season, so a load of irrelevent rubbish had to be tacked on.


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Morkonan





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 22:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

mrbadger wrote:
...Enterprise had singing in the theme music, SINGING!!! The moment that started I knew I was going to have trouble enjoying the series. And they weren't even allowed to be anything more than e Holodeck simulation in the final episode anyway. The series started badly and ended badly.

Sad, yes, but possibly inevitable.


I agree on the rabid support from Trekkies. They'll back anything, just because they're happy to get a new show. But, on the sidelines, they'll complain and criticize that which they defend to others.

I had the same feeling about the music. I was shocked. Then, I realized that the producers wanted the show to appeal to a new, young, audience and they knew they couldn't just rely on their static fanbase if the show was to be a success - It had to create new fans. So, one of the things they did was to push a theme through the music. I eventually grew to like the song, though, and realized it fit the theme very well.

There is one thing, though, that I really didn't like - No Yuri Gagaran in the opening montage. I think that was a travesty against Roddenberry's legacy. The opening was heavily Americanized, which makes me happy, but didn't include even a short clip of the contributions of other nations. Sure, the US has done a lot and, for the most part, has helped to lead the way. But, that was never Roddenberry's message. (The "HMS Enterprise" shot was the only non-American inspirational shot in the montage.) Maybe it was a lack of footage, dunno. The Soviets were very closed about that sort of thing.

Additionally, on grabbing new fans, they did something I personally appreciated, but thought was a bit too heavy-handed that early in the series - T'Pol's "Shower Scene." Smile That's such a blatant attention grabber for angsty teenages. Tsk tsk.. (But, pls more k tks.. Very Happy )

pjknibbs wrote:
My problem with Enterprise was that it wasn't gritty *enough*, considering we basically have a (relatively) small ship with only 80-odd people aboard, (Also, why did the ship only have 83 crew? Usually crew requirements go down as technology advances, but Kirk's far more advanced ship had over 400 crew)...also thought they had a few cop-outs in there--we have shields.. so instead we get "polarised hull plating"..


I agree. They did do a lot more than previous shows in painting a sort of "Wild West" kind of theme. (Just grasping, there. More like a Horatio Hornblower adventure, but without the overwhelming presence of Hornblower or the real/implied strength of the Empire.)

In a bid to ramp up some attention and drama, they pushed hard for a main storyline plot, which is something that has been tried before, but generally doesn't work well. (IMO, it isn't done well, that's why it doesn't work well...) The interdimensional conspiracy thingie was "OK", but it's akin to "saving the world" and you can only ever do that once.

It was a tiny ship, comparable to a WWI submarine. I think that's good, since it makes everything more intimate. Sadly, we didn't get to meet and then kill off crewmembers too often.

On polarized hull - Saw through that, huh? Smile Yeah, they wanted that mechanic for "press button for drama." The thing is that they didn't use it very well and, as you say, it became a bit droll and transparent. BUT, there's "realism" to consider, here, and despite appearances, ST has adopted a sort of "realism" in some ways. (Or, they insist they do, which is a load of crap...) I don't think it was a bad mechanic, since they had to give the ship some sort of protection for practical reasons. But, I think they should have eventually, instead, found some old alien "shields" on a black-market, somewhere, and had those jury-rigged into the ship's systems, quietly avoiding telling their superiors about such unconventional defenses. (ie: You do what you have to do to survive and welcome things that help you do that, even if it's "alien.") They could have done a really nice episode for that and then used it as a plot device in other episodes. (ie: Gotta uninstall the shield unit for our inspection, hide it in T'Pol's lavatory or sumthin')

mrbadger wrote:
...The story was compressed into four seasons because it was going to get canned making season four awesome, then they gave it another season, so a load of irrelevent rubbish had to be tacked on.


Don't talk to me about Voyager's ending... OMG, what a terrible way to go. DS-9 at least had that big war thingie going for it and that counts as a sort of "ending movie." (Spanned several episodes)

B5 is one of my favorite series of all time and it's because it was written, from beginning to end, with one story in mind and layed out by one man. Straczynski had a story in mind, wrote it, produced episodes along those lines with the idea that the should would "end here" and then... they demanded a bit more. "Okey dokey." And, we ended up with crap that didn't belong in a Bab5 series at the very last. Overall, though, the long-plot format was a darn masterpiece.

There are beautifully written moments in Bab 5, wonderful lines, great setups, an expanse of mystery and frightening alien power, political skullduggery, comic relief and a hefty dose of "human values." Some things are a bit hokey, sure. Some bits and pieces a bit eye-cringing or with a bit too much forced drama. And, there are some bits that were added to try to expand appeal, IMO. Though, the romance thing between Ivanova and Winters may have been planned, not sure.

The point is that you can easily identify what doesn't belong in the series. It stands out in stark relief. To me, that shows that Straczynski was doing things "right" in many ways.

Going to go watch some Londo clips... Saw Jurassic and a 'con, once. (Won't say I "met" him.) Wow, he was such a nice guy and happily jawing it up with fans. He, Furst, Katsulas and Mummy were the standout actors/characters in that show, though many had their moments.)

PS - Wow, a lot of commentary by me in a thread that's supposed to be a bit more episodic... Sorry. Smile

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pjknibbs



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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 23:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Morkonan wrote:
It was a tiny ship, comparable to a WWI submarine.


It really wasn't. The NX-01 Enterprise had 7 decks and was more than 200m long--if you actually compare the size of the saucer to, say, the Constitution class, it really wasn't much smaller. OK, there was no secondary hull so the engineering oily bits had to be housed in the main saucer as well, but I'm darned sure they could have fit a lot more than 80-odd people in there. When you consider they were presumably running the crew in a three shift system (e.g. one third of the crew was on duty for 8 hours in every 24), it just doesn't seem reasonable to be running a ship that size with an effective crew of less than 30!

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Morkonan





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 00:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

pjknibbs wrote:
Morkonan wrote:
It was a tiny ship, comparable to a WWI submarine.


It really wasn't. The NX-01 Enterprise had 7 decks and was more than 200m long--if you actually compare the size of the saucer to, say, the Constitution class, it really wasn't much smaller. OK, there was no secondary hull so the engineering oily bits had to be housed in the main saucer as well, but I'm darned sure they could have fit a lot more than 80-odd people in there. When you consider they were presumably running the crew in a three shift system (e.g. one third of the crew was on duty for 8 hours in every 24), it just doesn't seem reasonable to be running a ship that size with an effective crew of less than 30!


And...weird. The Constitution class had 23 decks, a bit more of a drought and beam, though. Still, I agree, the compliment seems too small. (Had to search through "Memory Alpha." Sometimes hate the way that site presents info.)

BUT, maybe there wasn't as much stuff for them to have to fiddle with? Smile Or, maybe structural supports took up much more room than in later models? More space might have been necessary for all systems, since miniaturization and more advanced technogeekery might have such an impact.

And, the Constitution class seemed more spacious. Huge hanger deck, Scotty literally had a couple of basketball courts of room to move around in the engine room. Multiple conference rooms, passenger space, cargo decks, giant officer's quarters compared to the NX1 series...

So, evidently, the Feds decided that the crew needed more room to do stuffs in. Ships needed more facilities. They needed to be able to host parties for ambassadors, carry passengers and critical cargo, engine rooms needed multiple levels, shuttle bays needed more shuttles, etc..

So, in that aspect, the size and crew difference "could" be justified. On NX1, there weren't certain facilities and things for the crew to operate. Elbow-room in all spaces was more of a luxury. Later designs incorporated more functions into the ship, so it could fulfill more roles, complete with a wider crew contingent to fill those roles.

Just trying to make things "fit", I guess. I can rationalize the crew differences, but only just barely. Smile

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burger1





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 08:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Star Trek Discovery theme song

https://youtu.be/b474uGkLJH8?t=37

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clakclak





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 14:23    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Can we talk Netflix upcoming Altered Carbon show? Altered Carbon is the first of the Takeshi Kovacs novels, but when looking through the character list I was a bit sad that they left out one of the coolest characters from the book. Trepp. In the book she actually plays a rather important role and while she is more or less just a "razor girl" archetype, Richard K. Morgan puts a spin on her and makes her a lot more relateable and human than for example William Gibson's Molly Millions.


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matthewfarmery





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 14:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I found this site a while back for starship scales

http://www.merzo.net/indexSD.html

It covers a lot of ships from a lot of the sciences fiction series. It is no longer being updated which is sad, but I do think it does a very good job of showing the scales of the different ships. (I can't remember if its been posted before? but there is a link to a more updated version by another person. Still, worth a mention.


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birdtable





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 20:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

For those fans of Philip K Dick ... Channel 4 (UK) has .. Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams .... a 10 part series starting Sunday 17th September.... The stories are loosely based (mmmm !!!) on his short stories.. As a 20 yr old I avidly read everything he wrote,,, hopefully my memories will not be shattered.

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BigBANGtheory





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 22:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Has anyone seen the relaunch of Twin Peaks?

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burger1





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 23:00    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

BigBANGtheory wrote:
Has anyone seen the relaunch of Twin Peaks?


I watched a bit of season 3 on Crave tv in Canada with my free one month trial. Not really my kind of show.


There's at least 2 free episodes of season 3 on showtime (US region locked). Need to add fake email address and birth date.

http://www.sho.com/twin-peaks


Netflix US has season 1 + 2

https://unogs.com/video/?v=70153408

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