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Things that we want and don't want from X3 in X4
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 14:16    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

birdtable wrote:
I loved Maelstrom ..

Yes, from a visual perspective, this is among my favourite systems in Rebirth. Dark for the most part, with some interesting-looking ion/plasma nebulae ribbons here and there, and a certain *crispness* to it - the black looks DEEP, suggestive of distance and emptiness, and celestial bodies exude presence. (Also, I very much like the fantastic graphical performance in most of Maelstrom, due to the almost-absence of mass traffic, in areas without fog/cloud)

Hmmm, perhaps I'll take a fleet there in my current game (after I've done the campaign) and put down a warehouse with a full complement of guns from start (a WARhouse, heheh), and use it to blast away countlesss Xenons... Hmmm, getting bits for the XJD should prove easy this way Very Happy


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 15:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Here's one I miss VERY MUCH in Rebirth (am surprised it took me so long to remember it)

Hotkeys that open most (all?) windows ought to work in both directions, ie. to both open AND to close the window again.
For example, opening the local map: 1 keystroke brings it up, then same key again dismisses it - no hand traveling required. In the case of the map, sometimes it takes only a brief glimpse, a second or less, to get one's bearings - it shouldn't take then moving to Esc or Del to return to the cockpit.
Another example: target info - tap hotkey once to bring up the info, quickly check whatever's relevant, then hit same key again to close and return to cockpit (possibly in live-fire situation.) In combat, this is crucial, as wasting even split-seconds often results in loss of position, having to manoeuvre wildly to get back on a target's tail or to correct an excessive drift, not to mention that during wasted time, enemy fire may be coming in.

This principle should also be applied to trade windows and such - no reason not to, it's simply a basic ergonomic principle.


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lostProfitssssArrgh





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 16:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Hotkeys that open most (all?) windows ought to work in both directions, ie. to both open AND to close the window again.


Like windows key +d ?

That's be nice. It also makes me wonder how much of the supporting OS' features can be inherited by a game... Food for thought. Thank you.

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CBJ
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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 16:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

lostProfitssssArrgh wrote:
It also makes me wonder how much of the supporting OS' features can be inherited by a game...

In this particular instance, none. These are not windows in the sense that Windows understands them.

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lostProfitssssArrgh





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 17:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

CBJ wrote:
These are not windows in the sense that Windows understands them.


Wouldn't it be advantageous if they were? I know that would at least be a boon to the users in the multi-monitor thread, OS UI widgets notwithstanding.

(Asking this without really knowing once again... If you do have a link handy about the subject, I'll read up on it).

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CBJ
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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 17:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

They can't be, for several reasons.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 17:12    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Well, OS window considerations aside, the hotkey functionality is not married to that, it's simply a matter of implementing the binding, as it was in X3 - there, hit comma and the local map opens, hit it again and it closes (I think it doesn't work for the main map as it opens with a text search box, and the comma keystroke then goes in there - which in itself is a defect, as there are no commas in sector names, so that character ought to be excluded from valid input into that field.)

on keystroke(X)
- check featureX window state
-- if window is not open, open it and exit
-- if window is open, close it and exit

(Not code of any sort, that, of course, just an improvised way to convey the logic concisely) That doesn't take into account text search boxes, of course, but various ways to get around that:
- one option is to require the search box to be explicitly entered (clicked to or TABbed to) - quick and dirty method
- alternatively, if search box is active by default (which is desirable for functional speed/efficiency) then filter k/b input - characters valid in search go in the box, keystrokes for invalid characters are parsed as hotkeys


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lostProfitssssArrgh





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 17:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
...there, hit comma and the local map opens, hit it again and it closes...which in itself is a defect, as there are no commas in sector names, so that character ought to be excluded from valid input into that field.


What if the player wants to use a different key than the default?

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Sep 17, 18:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

lostProfitssssArrgh wrote:
RAVEN.myst wrote:
...there, hit comma and the local map opens, hit it again and it closes...which in itself is a defect, as there are no commas in sector names, so that character ought to be excluded from valid input into that field.


What if the player wants to use a different key than the default?


Yes, if the player wants to assign an alphanumeric key to the function, then this falls down - that suggests that if the map window contains a search box, that search box ought to initialise unfocused, requiring a click or a TAB to navigate to it. The player is already looking at using an extended feature in this scenario in any case and thus expecting to be in the screen for a significant time, so the extra "delay" shouldn't be an issue.


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stormwings85



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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 16:40    Post subject: Re: Things that we want and don't want from X3 in X4 Reply with quote Print

Crellion wrote:
Nikola515 wrote:
All though i liked X3 there are some things that I don't like and there are some things that I like but they are not in X4 (as far as we know).
Here are some things that I don't like about X3:

1) Bump explosions. Every time AI gets retarded my ships gets destroyed Evil or Very Mad Is it not moving asteroid or another capital ships..... Anyway it was annoying and I hope this wont be in X4(according to CBJ it shouldn't but you never know) .

COLLISIONS ARE NECESSARY TO MAKE THE UNIVERSE FEEL REAL. THEY COULD BE TURNED OFF WHILE ON AUTOPILOT AND/OR MAP READING AND/OR WHEN NPC PILOT HAS YOUR SHIP.

2) Short capital ship battles. I liked to use capital ships turrets but usually didn't have time to use them because of that( especially when outnumbered).

MAKING HULLS/SHIELDS STRONGER AND BATTLES LAST LONGER IS OPTIONAL IN MANY X3 MODS. SHOULDNT BE HARD TO DO IN X4


1) Than its not a problem of bump explosions but an AI problem. I dont wanna play a space pinball so i wanna see dmg and eventually explosion (with explosion area dmg not only the effect) when 2 ships collide.
Add something in the menu where ppl can decide if they wanna full collision dmg or more arcade style could be the best solution.

2) I changed so many times the dmg and the rate of fire of the weapons, the number of shields and hull strength in X3 cos there was way too much dmg and every fight was too fast. Also add same sort of accuracy on weapons (that change based on official level) could be good to see.
At the end the main problem was again the AI cos any ship ate every singol things you shoted. And XR AI wasnt better...

What i want from X3:
I want to be able to pilot my ship even when i have open the map or others menu. Why the engine should stop working when i open the map or why i need to use the autopilot? Its like when you are in your car and you need to control something on your board computer the engine will stop.

Some sort of missile defence on small ship

Flak artillery. I want that back cos they were soo cool to see

Ammo weapons once again cos a gauss cannon (or a railgun) is cool Very Happy

What i dont want... well that old toaster AI Razz

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DaMuncha





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PostPosted: Wed, 13. Sep 17, 17:03    Post subject: Re: Things that we want and don't want from X3 in X4 Reply with quote Print

stormwings85 wrote:

What i dont want... well that old toaster AI Razz


Howdie Doodlydo. Toasie's the name, toastings the game. So does anybody want any toast?

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DaMuncha





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PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 14:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I feature I loved in X3 was "Fun". Sadly it was removed from XR probably due to time constraints, but I'm hoping they put "Fun" back in X4 too.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 14:41    Post subject: Re: Things that we want and don't want from X3 in X4 Reply with quote Print

DaMuncha wrote:
stormwings85 wrote:

What i dont want... well that old toaster AI Razz


Howdie Doodlydo. Toasie's the name, toastings the game. So does anybody want any toast?


No. No crumpets, no waffles, no flapjacks... and no smegging toast!
(Sadly not verbatim, my memory's not what-... erm, what was I saying?)


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Nikola515





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PostPosted: Fri, 15. Sep 17, 04:01    Post subject: Re: Things that we want and don't from X3 in X4 Reply with quote Print

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
Kitty wrote:

Nikola515 wrote:
4) Reputation. XR reputations was pretty much for discounts while X3 was much more advanced and realistic. I hope they bring it back.

I don't know about XR reputations. I find it not enough advanced and realistic in X3. I would expect an improvement here, not a regression. And this has been discussed in other threads and/or questions to Egosoft (about effect of capturing a capital ship, for example).

The mechanics of X Rebirth's faction reputation system are pretty good (info on consequences is here). There's the permanent, steady increases and decreases, and a system for temporary changes (a bit like of a sector goes red in X3, but time-related rather than apology/police ship destruction/pirate bribe), and they modify mission availability (IIRC). Factions that turn hostile will initially only target our combat ships unless we make them really hate us. It also gates off various licences for trading with illegal wares, and modifies the price of wares.

So from a trade perspective it feels improved over X3 to me. But on the other hand, XR faction reputation has no links to what ships or equipment can be purchased - if you can afford it, you can own it. For me, that is a shame as that represented quite a nice sense of progression in X3. It's in this area I hope to see further changes compared to XR.


I must agree that reputation system is better in XR only when it comes to trading aspects. If we want to be bounty hunter,explorer or even pirate that reputation wont have much effect. Missions don't get harder with higher reputation and rewards are the same(unless it was changed after 3.0).... In X3 we had to have good reputations in order to buy weapons or ships and we had to watch who are we going to piss off . It was somewhat harder to gain reputation than in XR (just my opinion).
But honestly I think reputation should be much harder to obtain and easy to lose.... For example they should add stealth mechanic where we can get away with crime if we don't get caught. Like taking out com relay on ship before boarding it in empty zone. Or why should HoA report PMC that I'm boarding their ship when they are at war Wink


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Kitty



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PostPosted: Fri, 15. Sep 17, 17:15    Post subject: Re: Things that we want and don't from X3 in X4 Reply with quote Print

Nikola515 wrote:
In X3 we had to have good reputations in order to buy weapons or ships and we had to watch who are we going to piss off . It was somewhat harder to gain reputation than in XR (just my opinion).
But honestly I think reputation should be much harder to obtain and easy to lose.... For example they should add stealth mechanic where we can get away with crime if we don't get caught. Like taking out com relay on ship before boarding it in empty zone. Or why should HoA report PMC that I'm boarding their ship when they are at war Wink


This is an important point. Earning reputation is one of the big points in the X2/X3 games, and I expect it to continues. When I wrote that it could be better, I meant "easyer to loose, espetially when boarding/stealing/pirating ships". Restrinctions to weapon buying is perfectly justified.

One thing may have to be a side effect: self defense should be taken into account. If you are attacked by a Boron in Argon space and are in good relationships with Argons, you should loose less reputation (Borons should loose some...).
One thing should be studied too as a consequence: how to mask your IDs when attacking somebody ? This is also linked to reputations, isn't it ?

Just dreaming.

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