[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

[Nefasi]

nope, theres plenty of Paranid red stuff that they're programmed to shoot at, they just don't do it.

MLCC will not engage ships that have you set blue. You'll need to get flagged as red before giving the MLCC ships the GO Code.

I tested by attempting to launch a Assault - Ships with a MLCC M6s. Relations with paranid were 5, and were just listed as foe in global commands. Ships did not engage. I went and shot a battlegroup ship that was the furthest from the MLCC M6s, after it launch missiles at me I gave the GO Code and the MLCC M6s went after some Paranid border control, and would likely have gone after every Paranid ship that had me set red in the sector.

[Sirrobert]

nope, theres plenty of Paranid red stuff that they're programmed to shoot at, they just don't do it.

Are your global friend/foe settings set correctly?

[ussdefiant]

so, i have no idea why, but when i load this save and SETA in a random direction for 30 seconds or so, it hangs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3dv872vro67oha/X13.sav?dl=0

can anyone take a look at that and see if they can reproduce/fix it? I'm sorta at a loss on where to begin troubleshooting outright hangs.

Edit: Actually, it seems to hang at 14:15:25 +/- 1 second every time.

[Joubarbe]

It freezes for me as well. Try to do an E/I.

Do you have any other mods installed?

[ussdefiant]

so, uh, an E/I worked, but a strange thing popped up.

I'm not really sure if it was there since E/I, but i was wandering around my Sat. Monitoring menu and this dude popped up as abandoned in the Oort Cloud:

http://i.imgur.com/uqMfuDK.png


No option to claim him, though. No scripts running on him besides the typical turret ones, relations appear to be Neutral Race type, shoot him to get scan = him turning hostile, etc. Is this the typical Script Bug Mammoth? Not actually seen one before.

Mods = LCU 1.7.2, Mayhem 2.1.3, IDN, Sat. Mon, Jourbarb Toolkit, Jourbarb ADS

[VincentTH]

so, uh, an E/I worked, but a strange thing popped up.

I'm not really sure if it was there since E/I, but i was wandering around my Sat. Monitoring menu and this dude popped up as abandoned in the Oort Cloud:

http://i.imgur.com/uqMfuDK.png


No option to claim him, though. No scripts running on him besides the typical turret ones, relations appear to be Neutral Race type, shoot him to get scan = him turning hostile, etc. Is this the typical Script Bug Mammoth? Not actually seen one before.

Mods = LCU 1.7.2, Mayhem 2.1.3, IDN, Sat. Mon, Jourbarb Toolkit, Jourbarb ADS

I don't know about Mayhem, but in LU, if you see Mammoth popped out it is an indication of a,corrupted install

[Sinnerman49]

Weird bug....

From the Property Owned window (ALL tab) I can highlight a vessel docked with my sanctuary, press the sanctuary manager hotkey, and it will open the manager window. This is super convenient.

However, when I go into the "SHIPS" tab, I no longer have the ability to open the window with the hotkey by highlighting a docked ship, it just beeps at me.

Any known fix? Is this working as intended? If I actually click on the vehicle, then press it, it works, but it'd be nice if it worked by just mousing over it and pressing the hotkey, like it does in the ALL property tab.

[Joubarbe]

@ussdefiant: did you properly install/update/rename .cat/.dat files? When you did the EI, did you follow the instructions (download the latest Mayhem E/I package and LU E/I package)? This Mammoth is not a Mammoth, it's an invalid ship ID. Also, did you modify anything in the t files? 9972 and such.

@Sinnerman49: When Sanctuary Manager hotkey? This menu has been added by Litcube, and if there's a bug in the Property screen, I won't be able to fix it (hardcoded).

[Joubarbe]

I'd like to submit an idea to you guys. In Mayhem, destroying stations is way more frequent than in vanilla, but the default attack actions are not coherent with that fact.

So I modify one of the main combat script to change that. With this file, any ship is considered an invader when:

• He has no command target. A command target is given when you issue commands like "Attack Fighters" and "Attack Capitals".
• No station has been passed into the script. It mostly affects defensive command, such as Defend station.
• No range has been passed into the script. It affects commands such as Defend position.

When a ship is considered an invader, he will first search for enemy ships, then if he cannot find any, will search for enemy stations. Shipyards that always appear as Foe in Mayhem are only affected if the owner is an actual enemy (set from ship properties).

If you have ADS, this change will affect the "Clear sector" manual command. Now all the active ships will be invaders.

The problem is that this new "invaders" thing could affect ships it shouldn't affect, because it affects NPC ships as well (but this maybe is a good thing). So give it a try and let me know what you think about this WIP modification!

(the file goes into X3\addon\scripts directory; backup the original file before)

[Hector0x]

So I modify one of the main combat script to change that.

After playing about 4h with this script i observed, that

- ADS ships attack stations now; big thank you!
- the second OCV invasion occured without any visible bugs or changes compared to the first one (they went for the closest targets, which were the stations regardless of used script)
- Mayhem battle groups don't seem to be affected. Commonwealth invasions are still "clean" (no stations are harmed)
- i could not see any crazy behavior of LU job ships

Also just got the first message about political tension between ATF and Terran. These are exciting times to arrive in this dimension

Can anyone tell me how much "project size" a single worker gets done in a given timespan. It's the second time i didn't finish an OWP before the invasion started and therefore OWP relocation was not possible.

[Joubarbe]

Thanks for the feedback. I finally decided to limited this behavior to player ships. I'll include that change into 2.2.0.

Project size is 1 people per minute. 100 people and a project size of 100 means 1 minute of work.

[Shepp]

After keeping any eye on Mayhem for a while I finally decided to take the plunge. I'm still early my first game but it has been a great experience so far. Thank you, Joubarbe, for the wonderful mod.

This may become obvious later in the game but, something I can't help but wondering as I play right now is, how come you decided to disable access to other faction's shipyards? It seems to me that faction reputation would keep the player from getting access to anything too powerful without working for it.

[Joubarbe]

You're welcome!

There are a few exploits possible if shipyards are accessible, the major one being that you can sell your ships for 10 times higher that their cost in resources. So, you'd ask, "why don't you lower the price of the ships?". Well, ships are not the only problem. Lasers, missiles, shields... You craft all this stuff
for a very low price. Increasing the prices of tradeable wares will break the economy and have some serious effect on station production. Because in X3, their is not a single "price value", nah... There's a "relative value". You can only change that, and if you change it, you modifiy the maximum storage of the ware, its production yield, the amount of resources you need to make them, etc.

So I don't think this is gonna change, unfortunately.

(and shipyards must be shipyards, 'cause the job ships use them)

[lostProfitssssArrgh]

Hi!

First of all, congratulations to Litcube and Joubarbe for their mind-blowing mods

FYI, i've been playing since x3:r and have enjoyed every single minute of it. This is my first post despite lurking in the forums all this time... That being said, on to the matter at hand.

1/ I started playing Mayhem since 2.09 and have come across a big exploit using the 'Normal' game start : it involves the 'Fly through gate' command. You can probably guess where this is going... (see attached save file, don't jump into Bluish Snout!).
That made me think about an 'Easy' game start where the factions don't go after the Unknown sectors ; for those of us who aren't into having to rush and reload at the slightest mistake. As it is in the save file, the war hasn't started and loot drops/ship bail rates are abysmal as a result.

2/ The other files are attached for savegame compatibility but also for consideration : I've been working on a 'warehouse' meta-meta-mod that would require to be able to export and re-import courier queues for easy editing - I'm having trouble getting the re-imported list formatted properly, any advice would be greatly welcomed.
Other than that, the included Tfiles, textResource and scripts files were edited to add the warehouse (Boron EqDock as Xenon Hub for storage values), a Player PX (more cargo and XL wares) and a modified BKE that fires more often (no DPS increase). The 9972 was also edited to disable food values on the Sanctuary names, mostly for making sure the exported task queues wouldn't link to a bad station name.

Thanks again for all the great work!

EDIT : typos and a few more things i forgot :
- The GKE was also changed back to ST size
- PPX is 1.5x more expensive than PX, to discourage reverse-engineering
- Breakthroughs are exploitable through SETA and save reload. Not sure how to go around that, maybe using a text output from a noise() function

[Hector0x]

The invasion target is random. So it seems that there is a decent probability that the factions leave some sectors for a very long time as the chance for a neutral sector being selected gets lower. I'm 12 minutes into the third day now and V-Delta and Unknown Sector Alpha are still grey. It's like they know V is crap and avoid it like the plague with it's 4 station slots.
Population is also more important than i expected. Constructing the first (non carrier) M7, a Raven, with the 30% time and cost discount but only 79 people took like 4 hours.

Just raided the remaining pirate mining outpost for loot. The last place where real men can still live the dream. They said they would hunt me down like vermin, but i had a word with my Teladi pals. They are going to stomp them soon i wager.

[ external image ][ external image ]
http://imgur.com/QFPX2us
http://imgur.com/v3awOU6

The threat level for the 2nd day OCV invasion was 4. For the 3rd day it will be 6 at the very least. And i'm planning to attack a Paranid sector which has very good stats before the Terrans can snatch it. At the moment the obsessed three eyes are going down big time for declaring war to everyone.

But the retaliation force will still be tough for sure.

[Shepp]

You're welcome!

There are a few exploits possible if shipyards are accessible, the major one being that you can sell your ships for 10 times higher that their cost in resources. So, you'd ask, "why don't you lower the price of the ships?". Well, ships are not the only problem. Lasers, missiles, shields... You craft all this stuff
for a very low price. Increasing the prices of tradeable wares will break the economy and have some serious effect on station production. Because in X3, their is not a single "price value", nah... There's a "relative value". You can only change that, and if you change it, you modifiy the maximum storage of the ware, its production yield, the amount of resources you need to make them, etc.

So I don't think this is gonna change, unfortunately.

(and shipyards must be shipyards, 'cause the job ships use them)

Thanks for the reply that really makes a lot of sense. I do have one last question regarding this and then I'll stop beating the dead horse. How about if instead of trying to change the prices of ships/resources, to make buying/selling ships in shipyards comparable to producing them, you increase the amount of resources required to produce the ships? The end cost, in credits, of production doesn't even need to equal the cost of buying/selling in a shipyard, because production also costs time. It would up to the player to decide if they want to spend more (in credits) to purchase the ship from a shipyard or if they wanted to spend the time to produce a ship for fewer credits.

[Hector0x]

How about if instead of trying to change the prices of ships/resources, to make buying/selling ships in shipyards comparable to producing them, you increase the amount of resources required to produce the ships? The end cost, in credits, of production doesn't even need to equal the cost of buying/selling in a shipyard, because production also costs time. It would up to the player to decide if they want to spend more (in credits) to purchase the ship from a shipyard or if they wanted to spend the time to produce a ship for fewer credits.

But then you could access them instantly. One of the main concepts of this mod is that you cannot translate credits into ships or stations. You need resources and time to build them.

[VincentTH]

In my game, the Terrans swallow the entire Paranid settlement in the South East, almost wipe out the Boron colony at Lucky Planet, as well as the Argon around Light of Heart. They have 80 sectors, to the ATF 12.


Is this a balance issue or just the luck of the draw? I have gone through 10 May Hem games, and never seen such imbalance. I thought there is a cap in the number of fleets for each faction, but that does not seem to be the case here. The Terrans in my current 2.1.x game seem to be able to maintain several fleets at different fronts simultaneously. Even the Argon and Goner alliance is no match.

The problem is, you can't go to war against the Terrans without also making the ATF your enemy.

[Shepp]

How about if instead of trying to change the prices of ships/resources, to make buying/selling ships in shipyards comparable to producing them, you increase the amount of resources required to produce the ships? The end cost, in credits, of production doesn't even need to equal the cost of buying/selling in a shipyard, because production also costs time. It would up to the player to decide if they want to spend more (in credits) to purchase the ship from a shipyard or if they wanted to spend the time to produce a ship for fewer credits.

But then you could access them instantly. One of the main concepts of this mod is that you cannot translate credits into ships or stations. You need resources and time to build them.

You wouldn't have access to everything instantly. You would still have to increase your rep to unlock the bigger stuff. You wouldn't have access at all to the ships of the factions you at at war with. I was just suggesting it as a time vs. money decision to acquire ships.

The mod is REALLY REALLY good the way it is, so I hope no one takes this as a complaint. It was just an idea I had that I figured I would put out here.

[Joubarbe]

No no, your ideas made me try a few things to let the player uses the shipyards. But unfortunately, none of them work. Selling ships mean that you sell all the equipment and wares. And that's where the real problem is. There's an event sent to the system when you sell a ship; it passes the type of ware and the credits you receive, amongst other things, but I can't find a decent way to get the ship itself, just its ware code (meaning that I can't get the cargo hold).

Two options I could consider:
1/ Deactivate the "selling ship" feature of shipyards, plain and simple. My favorite option.
2/ Give credits for the hull (at the same price you produced it), but refund all the equipment in crystals.

Anyway, let's close this chapter, because that's not possible, the shipyards features are all hardcoded and I won't be able to overpass that. Same for custom stuff; I cannot add anything to hardcoded menus. That's why the Sanctuary menu has so many stuff in it. I would do things differently if I could modify and create new menus... (UI modding Egosoft, UI modding!)