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Paid DLC in X4
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Rei Ayanami





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PostPosted: Fri, 11. Aug 17, 21:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Vector_Gorgoth wrote:
The bare, naked minimum is that a game should not have less content or fewer features than its predecessors.

If X3 allows fleet control, logistics, automated trading, station building, complexes, ship equipping and remote control, commodities trade, stock market, piracy, lasers/missiles, semi-dynamic economy, etc. -- then X4 is not "feature complete" unless it has the same features (if a feature is removed, it needs to be replaced with another feature which is at least as desirable as the first). That's the bare "don't insult me, here" minimum.

What if a game is so overeloaded with features where the sequel having less features but making these kept features so much better actually makes the game better?
What if a feature was implemented in the predecessor but totally unneeded or even unwanted by the player base?

For example i'd totally be fine if for X4 they scrapped the idea of me having to search and hire a competent pilot for each of my small ships and i wouldn't mind if they didn't replace it with anything.

Quote:
Then there are other considerations: for a game with no predecessors, it needs to be "feature complete" - ANYTHING advertised in the pre-release hype should be included for only the base cost of the game; no exceptions. In other words, the game should deliver on the "vision" communicated to the players pre-release

I disagree.
From experience i can tell you that during game development there are tons of ideas that pop up "wouldn't be that cool?" "yea, we should definitely try that" and which, during interviews about the game, gets mentioned as a planned feature. But then it turns out, after implementing a prototype of that idea, that the feature - when used ingame - isn't really that fun so it gets scrapped. Should game devs still implement these features even though it turns out that they were not fun, just because they said they planned to have that feature ingame?

Quote:
Another case where being forced to pay is unacceptable is where an "oh duh!" feature is thought up post-release and implementing it is very technically simple.

That i wholeheartedly agree with.

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Sparky Sparkycorp
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PostPosted: Fri, 11. Aug 17, 23:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

X4 isn't out yet so this seems a little premature to me personally. That said, DLCs for X Rebirth were substantive (unique settings with unique mechanics) with the first offered free for a while, and the second tryable pre-purchase via a free demo. Sure, Egosoft could introduce gold ammo (intentional Eve reference) but the signs are not bad in that regard.


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Graaf



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PostPosted: Sat, 12. Aug 17, 10:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Lets look at Rebirth then:
Rebirth (30) + TO (10) + HOL (10)
So for 2/3 of the games current price you can double the amount of space you play in? That makes TO extremely expensive for just 1 system.

But if I use HOL price/system, who is willing to pay an additional 450 to get the other missing systems from X3?


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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Sat, 12. Aug 17, 10:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Sandalpocalypse wrote:
A great number of sequels have less content and less features than their predecessors. For example, Dawn of War II had fewer factions and less campaign content than Dawn of War I.

MMOs that have received sequels - or comparing new MMOs to older MMOs - are also a case in point. Newer games typically have way less content than older ones that have received additions.


Sadly, all too true. Working as a gaming journalist for nigh on 2 decades, I saw this happening for quite some time, a gradual but inexorable attrition of content yet accompanied by rising pricing/monetization. Essentially, a consumeristic trend born of gaming's success as an entertainment medium, "maturing" from a niche one to a mainstream one. Unfortunately, this has led to widespread dumbing down of titles more or less across the board, as well as shortening of content duration in order to:
- Create a vacuum to be filled with paid DLC later
- Make the titles more "consumable" - reduce a title's longevity and you end up increasing turn-over for subsequent titles (appealing to what I call "the ADD generation")
All too often, this practice is covered up by the excuse that the story-driven content is "merely a tutorial/springboard" and that the game's focus is intended to be "multiplayer-centric". A particularly disgusting example of this was Modern Warfare 2, whose entire campaign can be finished quite easily in just a few hours - when I tested that on release (yes, a good number of years ago, now), I at that point abandoned that franchise entirely (though, to be fair, I had never been an enthusiast in any case - but this was the final nail in the coffin.) Also, game makers are increasingly relying on bling to dazzle and seduce their attention-deficient audiences into short-lived purchases, and to distract them from whatever game/s they may have been playing at the time (after all, they want to increase turnover - which is understandable to a degree - doesn't mean I have to like it, though, or participate therein. Very Happy heheheh)

Consequently, as a result of this trend, I have found myself falling back more and more on older classics (the X3s and also X2 being significant contributors in this regard, as well as some other highly time-intensive older games), and no longer investing funds in new titles, finding that the return on investment has become dismally poor of late. (In my opinion, btw, the first Dawn of War is far superior to the second.) Luckily, at around the time I made this decision, I also moved out of gaming journalism - or perhaps it wasn't luck but an inevitability, as my views became increasingly incompatible...


Games are cheap now though. It is actually remarkable how cheap games continue to be. An AAA game that cost $60USD in 2000 cost is equivalent to $85USD today. And decent computer hardware is cheap to acquire as well. Gaming is cheaper than its ever been, except for subscription models.


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PostPosted: Sat, 12. Aug 17, 13:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Graaf wrote:

That makes TO extremely expensive for just 1 system.

But if I use HOL price/system, who is willing to pay an additional 450 to get the other missing systems from X3?

Comparing system counts between Rebirth and earlier games looks even more inappropriate than comparing sector counts.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Sat, 12. Aug 17, 14:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sandalpocalypse wrote:
Games are cheap now though. It is actually remarkable how cheap games continue to be. An AAA game that cost $60USD in 2000 cost is equivalent to $85USD today. And decent computer hardware is cheap to acquire as well. Gaming is cheaper than its ever been, except for subscription models.


In the First World, perhaps. But certainly not where I live, unfortunately. Game price increases (along with the hardware needed to run them, but that's incidental in any case), outpace local cost of living increase and inflation rates (which are themselves quite high and compounded by a gradual but steady decline in total savings among the low and middle economic classes) by a considerable margin. (This is a point that comes up regularly on various gaming forums - people tend to only consider their own local situations and not envision what things are like elsewhere - perfectly understandable, of course, as that's what's relevant to them; but the trap here is to think that local truths are universally applicable - they are not.)

As for subscription models, yes, I think even in the First World these are becoming passe and no longer sustainable - I have seen a number of sub-based MMOs trying various F2P models (with or without P2W elements, variously) in order to survive and continue, in recent years. (Needless to say, in light of my previous paragraph, sub-based games in my country of residence have been inaccessible to any but the wealthy since the start - especially given the deplorably primitive and *even more expensive* Internot infrastructure here - not a typo, that, btw. Wink )


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Graaf



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PostPosted: Sat, 12. Aug 17, 17:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
Graaf wrote:

That makes TO extremely expensive for just 1 system.

But if I use HOL price/system, who is willing to pay an additional 450 to get the other missing systems from X3?

Comparing system counts between Rebirth and earlier games looks even more inappropriate than comparing sector counts.

I am merely comparing the number of areas that are linked by jumpgates.


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PostPosted: Sat, 12. Aug 17, 18:23    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Graaf wrote:
Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
Graaf wrote:

That makes TO extremely expensive for just 1 system.

But if I use HOL price/system, who is willing to pay an additional 450 to get the other missing systems from X3?

Comparing system counts between Rebirth and earlier games looks even more inappropriate than comparing sector counts.

I am merely comparing the number of areas that are linked by jumpgates.


And these areas are called systems in X Rebirth and sectors in X3, which are vastly different in design and size. Wink


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Graaf



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PostPosted: Sat, 12. Aug 17, 22:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

X2-Illuminatus wrote:
And these areas are called systems in X Rebirth and sectors in X3, which are vastly different in design and size. Wink

So Albion, Home of Light, Omicron Lyrae & Maelstrom are different locations in Rebirth compared to X3?


Maybe I should try another example:
As an stand-alone expansion a la X3, you are going to have to pay for Rebirth 2 (aka X4) because they can't make multiple players ships working with the current Rebirth mechanics.

But should "the real X4" have all the races from X3 or are you going to have to pay even more to get the Boron and Paranid? Or DLC to make all ships pilotable?


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spankahontis





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PostPosted: Sun, 13. Aug 17, 03:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
spankahontis wrote:
Why not just return to the classic Expansion Pack model?....


Kindly explain the differences between an "expansion pack" and "paid DLC"? The only difference I see is that one comes in a box and the other gets downloaded from the internet. Wink



Expansion packs have everything from tons of new scripts, content, quests, ships and a whole host of other features worthy of a 25-40 pound price tag.

The other is a tiny increase of the original game, a new System, a bunch of new ships, basically a sprinkle of change.

And yeah, I prefer my games in retail, box form, so I can take it back if i'm not satisfied.
Not this 2 hour guarantee from Steam, I don't like the thought of owning something that is physically not in my Hand that Steam could revoke if it wanted to.

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PostPosted: Sun, 13. Aug 17, 05:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Graaf wrote:
Maybe I should try another example:
As an stand-alone expansion a la X3, you are going to have to pay for Rebirth 2 (aka X4) because they can't make multiple players ships working with the current Rebirth mechanics.

But should "the real X4" have all the races from X3 or are you going to have to pay even more to get the Boron and Paranid? Or DLC to make all ships pilotable?


X4 will have multiple flyable ships, nothing to do with X Rebirth where from day one Egosoft make it clear that only one ship will be flyable.


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PostPosted: Sun, 13. Aug 17, 08:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Santi wrote:
Graaf wrote:
Maybe I should try another example:
As an stand-alone expansion a la X3, you are going to have to pay for Rebirth 2 (aka X4) because they can't make multiple players ships working with the current Rebirth mechanics.

But should "the real X4" have all the races from X3 or are you going to have to pay even more to get the Boron and Paranid? Or DLC to make all ships pilotable?


X4 will have multiple flyable ships, nothing to do with X Rebirth where from day one Egosoft make it clear that only one ship will be flyable.

Nothing to do with Rebirth? It's mostly savegame-incompatibility that requires it to be a new game. I highly doubt that they are going to be making a whole new game.
X4 as they like to call it will most likely just be Rebirth 2, the same game you already have with the ability to fly a few more uninteresting ships.


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PostPosted: Sun, 13. Aug 17, 15:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Graaf wrote:
X2-Illuminatus wrote:
And these areas are called systems in X Rebirth and sectors in X3, which are vastly different in design and size. Wink

So Albion, Home of Light, Omicron Lyrae & Maelstrom are different locations in Rebirth compared to X3?

Lore-wise, no. Gameplay-wise, yes, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to imply otherwise.


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Nikola515





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PostPosted: Sun, 13. Aug 17, 16:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'm pretty sure X4 is going to be XR on steroids... But ill still be waiting until we get some info later this month. As far as we know only S/M ships to pilot and tubes as highways. And we will be able to build stations how ever we want. Perhaps it will be more like complexes where we can build ice refinery with solar panels for example ??? I hope they explain more about this... Anyway hoping for the best and expecting worse Wink


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PostPosted: Sun, 13. Aug 17, 17:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nikola515 wrote:
we will be able to build stations how ever we want. Perhaps it will be more like complexes where we can build ice refinery with solar panels for example ??? I hope they explain more about this... Anyway hoping for the best and expecting worse Wink

Strictly speaking, Bernd said "[X4] will give you full freedom when building stations from individual modules". Being able to build stations however we want is a possible interpretation. Another could be freedom on the order of module construction, from preset lists of modules.

Edit: I don't have a view on what is more likely. Just wanted to mention the alternative in case we expect something that wasn't promised.


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