Things from X Rebirth I would like kept for use in X4

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 14:31

The list of "things" we would like added to X4 appears endless and varied but what about those "things" we would NOT like to be removed....
I for one hope they retain the ability to walk your deck during flight, this is one of the major

in the game.... Gold Star to whoever thought that idea up.
Remember this is about the positives

in X Rebirth not troll bait or suggested ideas for X4.

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 14:59

For me seeing stations actually refining materials and building wares was very well done in XR I'd like to see that remain or expanded on.

If I was to be slightly cheeky I'd also want to keep support for features that were added into XR post release e.g. multiple control input devices incl. TrackIR, cockpit radar and the 3D maps

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 15:49

Also quite liked the docking procedure for the skunk, it is nice to get the old docking procedures initially but after a while auto docking at the press of a button becomes the norm ,,, well in my game.

Post by **UniTrader** » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 16:13

regarding Docking i think this can be done better than per keypress: wihout keypress

i played a Game long ago which had a nice system for Docking. basically you have two red rectangles "floating" in space and when you slowly fly through them in order the Autodocking sequence is initiated.

here a Video showing this mechanic: https://youtu.be/Q0ua16IHn5k?t=139

(yep, for that game only one docking port was ever relevant, but it should also work for multiple Ports)

arragon0815 · Post by **arragon0815** » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 20:39

UniTrader wrote:regarding Docking i think this can be done better than per keypress: wihout keypress

i played a Game long ago which had a nice system for Docking. basically you have two red rectangles "floating" in space and when you slowly fly through them in order the Autodocking sequence is initiated.

here a Video showing this mechanic: https://youtu.be/Q0ua16IHn5k?t=139

(yep, for that game only one docking port was ever relevant, but it should also work for multiple Ports)

That whe want for X4, docking by do it yourself

...and the Auto docking for the softies

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 20:58

A bit of shepherding back into the flock.....
I also really liked the system Maelstrom ... hope that sort of system is continued/repeated ,, real space.... well reasonable well lit real space with just a bit of artistic licence.....

spankahontis · Post by **spankahontis** » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 23:36

- Keeping the System/Sector/Zone model as it's more efficient than the previous make.

- Interactive Maps.. But also improve on them. If you are implementing a better Fleet Command system, to work alongside the maps when say, making formations for attack purposes and point and click a ship into attacking a single ship instead of having to go through coms and then commanding that ship to attack (Which is time consuming).

- Keep.. But greatly improve on walking on Stations. To explore on foot is awesome, but at the moment.. Very rudimentary when you look at games like Star Citizen and eventually Elite: Dangerous.
If were not having guns like in SC? Then fine.. But find some way to make it more fun as this is a major gripe amongst those who hate stations. There has to be a reason for being there? Item trading, ship repair/upgrading and small talk just isn't enough.

- Keep the same with ships and again, improve on this. Repairing a damaged ship with items in your inventory or exploring derelict ships, interacting with people etc. Something needs to seriously improve.

Earth Ultimatum IV. · Post by **Earth Ultimatum IV.** » Fri, 7. Jul 17, 11:57

Flight assist off. After learning full FA OFF in elite dangerous, I can't play a space game without it. So good that they added it to rebirth.

Nikola515 · Post by **Nikola515** » Fri, 7. Jul 17, 19:18

Mining- I like how mining works but it needs to be more expanded. For example I don't think we should have unlimited supply of ore in one zone. We should be able to mine it (clear zone out of rocks) and they should respawn in deferent zone further away where station is (or respawn in small amounts).

Capital Ship Boost- I like this as the way it is but it would be nice if we could upgrade boosts to be faster for deep space exploration.

Long range scanner- This is good idea but we need more tings that we can explore with it. With right features this would be good tool to use (like scavenger hunt for destroyed ships that can be recycled). Also ping are hard to see in DV so I think they should use some other mechanics for it.

Ores/Gasses- I like how there is more deferent materials but I think they should expand on it. Like having Uranium,God,Silver,Cooper.....

Massive weapon platforms- I love those anti capital ship weapons

Ships special main weapons- Sucellus is one of my favorite ships because of its main cannons. It is too bad that I had to resort mods to fix its r******* AI (I know its been fixed but 3 years later)

Crew skill- All thou it is good idea it is implemented in worse possible way. Looking for good crew small talk and seminars make my head boil.... I think they should just add RPG like leveling system (crew level up by doing their job).

Weapon mods- This is pretty fun and I hope they expand this on shields and hull as well. Only thing is that it is not presentable right in my opinion. Seeing jut numbers and what they do is somewhat lazy. Perhaps some graphs or some nice visuals would be good ?

Economy Analytics Software - This is one of my favorite features

ezra-r · Post by **ezra-r** » Fri, 7. Jul 17, 19:37

oh yes walking on deck is something so important for a space game... (not).

So yes, for me all the un-needed and cosmetic stuff which really adds nothing to the game, like walking on deck, walking on stations, the tedious hiring method, one by one, hundreds of menu dialogs to hire and back and forth constantly, this would be the first thing to be insta-killed from next game.

* I mean you can dock, but an interface from ship would be enough. A Clean and neat interface from ship is practical, good looking and probably less tedious.

* I mean you can hire, but simple options for price, skills and full lots, or even being able to hire dozens with a few clics to disperse among several ships of your choosing.
These imo would be elements worth developing for. Get rids of tedious repetitive tasks and can fit lots of ships in a few minutes.

* I would remove part of the actual mining system and change it for something more rewarding and entertaining, see my thread about this:
https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=391147

* I would remove the isolation between the items for you and the items for your factories, this was probably one of the worst ideas. Because Ren Otani could have help provide his own factories instead of doing his own bussiness all the time and just order around (through too many menu options) to other ships.

* Not removal, but a constant improvement on ideas of mission types or at least, even if its go here, pick that, deliver it, back and forth add much more lore or story elements so they keep you entertained.. for instance, even though witcher 3 is not a space game, it has lots of missions which "basically" are the same, go there, kill, kill, talk, look, back, forth, etc.. but the stories are hilarious, varied and keep you entertained.

* More...Exploration, get rid of unknown zones or zone sections altogether, make them transparent, spread random events through all the known universe, derelicts, unknown signals taking you (use your imagination, hundreds of options), juicy mining spots, hidden pirate bases guarding something, hidden friendly pirates selling you goodies in exchange for risky missions (make them offer different and unique stuff), make Xenon and enemy behaviour more organic and depending if you are in their territory make then detect you through long range and try to chase you in occasions...

Space games gives many oportunities, many times space games are a fraction of what they could do.

Get rid of Stupid AI, Jesus!, test the ships, play the game a little, do a few battles, stupid behaviour becomes too apparent the moment you start "actually" playing your game. And it making things smart is not possible due to.. whatever, simplify things, missile boats always stay in their own range only close by to defend, make captial ships more agile, clunky and dumb does not mean realistic. If a ship has a huge phallic gun, like Succelus, make it manuver like hell to be able to use it 90% of the time, even if it has to fly backards, seeing that ship in Rebirth fight other capitals make baby jesus cry.

AI wings, if they can't stay in line with their leader when in formation tie them artificially with something the player can't see so when they are in formation they don't brake it until they do want to break it I rather see them aligned artificially that a wasp swarm of dump ships. Remember between realistically dumb and artificially and forced good looking, always choose the second.

Please get rid of small ships flying after capital ships which have jumped. Small ships MUST JUMP with their leader, always, NO!, no exceptions.

Lanes, if we have lanes or highways, make them straight! and please don't add FAKE TRAFFIC, it's lame, specially if game has already enough ships doing stuff.

Small ships that dock should never bump, even if they have to be grabbed by an invisible hook that brings them straight and through solid stuff to the dock, so be it! Time is of the essence and we can't waste seeing a stupid small ship bump forever until it docks.

Drones, if we are too keep them, make them fast and agile or remove them, sometimes a beam of light will be better.

Ships that dock with each other or to stations, do they really have to take 5 minutes for approach and align and dock, sometimes even longer? If they can't make it in 30 seconds when they are 5km away from each other, the idea is pure crap.

Last but not least, all those realistic touches that end up in pimbal and dumb stuff, go for fake unrealistic but practical always and first.

Post by **Nanook** » Fri, 7. Jul 17, 19:55

@ezra-r:

This thread is about things from Rebirth to KEEP, not things to get rid of. There are plenty of those kinds of threads already. Let's not turn this into one of those, OK? Try to keep on topic, please.

ezra-r · Post by **ezra-r** » Fri, 7. Jul 17, 19:59

Nanook wrote:@ezra-r:

This thread is about things from Rebirth to KEEP, not things to get rid of. There are plenty of those kinds of threads already. Let's not turn this into one of those, OK? Try to keep on topic, please.

my apologies I read it backwards lol, but still I added lots of things I wanted to see IN the game, hope you can forgive me

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Fri, 7. Jul 17, 21:52

Also enjoyed the Escort missions ( once pathing was sorta sorted) that could easily be developed into a valuable asset .... Plus " Stop The Snitch " missions,, the protected targets did give the opportunity to employ some tactical gameplay ,, another future valuable asset.

Post by **UniTrader** » Sat, 8. Jul 17, 00:22

Nikola515 wrote:Mining- I like how mining works but it needs to be more expanded. For example I don't think we should have unlimited supply of ore in one zone. We should be able to mine it (clear zone out of rocks) and they should respawn in deferent zone further away where station is (or respawn in small amounts).

theorhetically the amount you can mine in a Zone is limited. well, not the amount itself, but the amount you can mine in a certain time. (and yes, it actually reduces the amount of Rocks, and if you script it down to 0 you will notice how the now removed rocks slowly come back)
problem with the Vanilla definitions is that a single Zone regenerates enough Resources to keep the Economy of the whole Cluster running... (iirc the regeneration time of a typical Asteroid Field is 7 IG-Days- that is if its mined down to 0 it will need 7 Days to regenerate back to fulll if its not touched during that time. For Gas Fields its i think 3 IG-Days)

Post by **Xenon_Slayer** » Sat, 8. Jul 17, 00:49

birdtable wrote:Also enjoyed the Escort missions

[ external image ]

Wait, what?!

I'm glad to know some of the improvements there helped make these missions enjoyable for some. Escort missions in games are tricky to pull off. Even more tricky for us as the speed/defence of the usual clients (freighters) are balanced for the economy; so weak and slow.

As a fan of X from back in the day and a dev of the new, I'm happy that we have the sub-components on Capships and Stations. The turrets, shields e.t.c. It allows more realistic situations like bombers crippling a capship's systems instead of having to kill it outright. And stations in X3 with only a few laser towers for defence wouldn't last long when under attack. Not really news, but we are keeping the sub-component system.

specialsymbol · Post by **specialsymbol** » Sat, 8. Jul 17, 01:07

The Highway-System. I totally love the idea of huge sectors that can barely be traveled with regular means, but that still can be traveled by regular means. It just adds to the vastness of space.
Having highways connect points of interests to make travel faster yet having that vastness is awesome.

ezra-r · Post by **ezra-r** » Sat, 8. Jul 17, 01:38

Xenon_Slayer wrote:...
As a fan of X from back in the day and a dev of the new, I'm happy that we have the sub-components on Capships and Stations. The turrets, shields e.t.c. It allows more realistic situations like bombers crippling a capship's systems instead of having to kill it outright. And stations in X3 with only a few laser towers for defence wouldn't last long when under attack. Not really news, but we are keeping the sub-component system.

Indeed subcomponents and station defences were a great addition, and glad you guys are keeping them.

To that add possible station destruction and factions being able to build their own factories based on needs and from a scratch and voilá, it will be magnificent.

Nikola515 · Post by **Nikola515** » Sat, 8. Jul 17, 02:57

UniTrader wrote: theorhetically the amount you can mine in a Zone is limited. well, not the amount itself, but the amount you can mine in a certain time. (and yes, it actually reduces the amount of Rocks, and if you script it down to 0 you will notice how the now removed rocks slowly come back)
problem with the Vanilla definitions is that a single Zone regenerates enough Resources to keep the Economy of the whole Cluster running... (iirc the regeneration time of a typical Asteroid Field is 7 IG-Days- that is if its mined down to 0 it will need 7 Days to regenerate back to fulll if its not touched during that time. For Gas Fields its i think 3 IG-Days)

I did notice that too but it is also imposible to deplete ore/gass no matter how hard we try. It is just destroying immersion of mining gameplay and making it seem unlimited(it is not realistic in my opinion). I currently have 14 Metalworks Yards and around 10 NPC's Metalworks Yards.... At same time I have 3 warehouses that are mining and selling ore all the time (thanks to mods I have unlimited sink when it comes to production). Plus there are other stations like Construction Shops that mine as well. Anyway with all that heavy mining I can't even make dent before it respwns. It just don't seem right and mining ships always stay in one zone to mine almost unlimited ore.... I think that mining should be based more on zones rather than sectors. For example if I run out of ore in one zone they need to move to other zone where they need to travel to get. It is more like one zone gets mined and other appear in its place. Maps are pretty big in XR so it would increase scale of universe as well as make economy little bit more challenging. Also it would give purpose to that empty space....

@Xenon_Slayer

I personally find escort missions boring.... But I think it would be fun if there are capital ships escort missions. For example civilian capital ship (without boosters) needs to be escorted to X stations. Or military escort where we need to escort ship and protect it against enemy(we act more like wing man in patrol missions and ship is target).

Post by **UniTrader** » Sat, 8. Jul 17, 03:14

Nikola515 wrote:I did notice that too but it is also imposible to deplete ore/gass no matter how hard we try. It is just destroying immersion of mining gameplay and making it seem unlimited(it is not realistic in my opinion). I currently have 14 Metalworks Yards and around 10 NPC's Metalworks Yards.... At same time I have 3 warehouses that are mining and selling ore all the time (thanks to mods I have unlimited sink when it comes to production). Plus there are other stations like Construction Shops that mine as well. Anyway with all that heavy mining I can't even make dent before it respwns. It just don't seem right and mining ships always stay in one zone to mine almost unlimited ore.... I think that mining should be based more on zones rather than sectors. For example if I run out of ore in one zone they need to move to other zone where they need to travel to get. It is more like one zone gets mined and other appear in its place. Maps are pretty big in XR so it would increase scale of universe as well as make economy little bit more challenging. Also it would give purpose to that empty space....

the definitions for the Ressource Fields are actually made on the Cluster-level. from there its assigned to the Zones based on how much of the field is inside a Zone and what Density the Field has there (for the Ressource Amount in a Zone the Formula has about a Dozen factors if not far more, not sure if i found them all..)

also i dislike the idea of moving the Ressources around randomly. you might end up with Ice Asteroids in Darned Hot Air. or other non-fitting stuff.. i think the current System is basically good enough, but the parameters for it need some tuning. like multiplying the regen time for everything by 50 to 500 so you can actually mine down the Fields and have to move somewhere else eventually..

i would turn this into a mod (its actually pretty easy to do) but i dont want to start this kind of project if i dont get any feedback about the values. (i cannt do long-time-observations because i regulary restart my game for testing my own main project)

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Sat, 8. Jul 17, 07:03

My statement regarding " Escort Missions" was two fold...
1. It allows for events to occur on fixed routes .
2. A far more enjoyable way to view the comings and goings of station life and the design of those stations which was lost looking for the scan points,, the eye was forced to focus away from all that was on display.
Close up examination of the escorted ships was also a bonus,,

Nearly forgot .. the "Walking on Deck" was not about plodding around but the ability to openly view events as you pass through or participate.
Neither walking the decks or escorting are mandatory but add greatly to the overall experience .... well in my opinion they do.